the green bay packers vefrsus the detroit loins 2019 MNF (week 5): the return of the incomparable tony brown PART DEUX

[Packerraymond]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Not a chance.

 

Most would not have cared one bit. If he didn't b**** and moan, nobody would be talking about the hands to the face penalty. 

If this was a noon or 3:15 game, I agree. The announcers had little to do with the aftermath, it was a national, primetime game. The Seattle/Detroit with the fumble kick game was SNF and those two in the booth didn't ***** and moan about it and I still remember hearing about for a few days after.

Primetime game is the major factor here. No one cared about the CMIII RTP game because everyone was watching their team or the team closest to their market. This one all football fans were watching.

[incognito_man]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

If this was a noon or 3:15 game, I agree. The announcers had little to do with the aftermath, it was a national, primetime game. The Seattle/Detroit with the fumble kick game was SNF and those two in the booth didn't ***** and moan about it and I still remember hearing about for a few days after.

Primetime game is the major factor here. No one cared about the CMIII RTP game because everyone was watching their team or the team closest to their market. This one all football fans were watching.

everyone on here will discuss anything, it's the national coverage that is affected by announcers because they get in the heads of the casual fan who feign outrage then.

Casual fans wouldn't have thought about it twice if it wasn't for him bloviating.

[Norm]

I didn't have sound all game and didn't know it was such an outrage until I turned on the TV and radio on the way to work.

[Packerraymond]

Just now, incognito_man said:

everyone on here will discuss anything, it's the national coverage that is affected by announcers because they get in the heads of the casual fan who feign outrage then.

Casual fans wouldn't have thought about it twice if it wasn't for him bloviating.

How many "casual fans" watch games in which their local team isn't in? Also wouldn't the mainstream media coverage do the same thing the morning after and create the same issue? Even if Booger doesn't say a word, this call is making the same impact. Booger sucks, but acting like the fallout is his fault doesn't make sense to me at all.

[Rainmaker90]

5 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

How many "casual fans" watch games in which their local team isn't in? Also wouldn't the mainstream media coverage do the same thing the morning after and create the same issue? Even if Booger doesn't say a word, this call is making the same impact. Booger sucks, but acting like the fallout is his fault doesn't make sense to me at all.

If he didn’t mention it, people wouldn’t have thought twice about it. Being a nationally televised game gives it more eyes but bad calls/ no calls happen all the time and people get upset for a minute and move on

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Rainmaker90 said:

If he didn’t mention it, people wouldn’t have thought twice about it. Being a nationally televised game gives it more eyes but bad calls/ no calls happen all the time and people get upset for a minute and move on

The announcers really didn't make a mention of Rodgers facemask before the hailmary if I recall and that was a big thing for a day or two after, should we have gotten that last play?

It was a controversial call, I think you're being naive assuming most of those watching at 11pm on a work night don't know the rules of football and take their stance from the announcers booth.

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I mean, the NFL agreed that it wasn't a penalty and shouldn't have been called...

But the first hands to the face was a penalty per the NFL.  The 2 instances look very similar so I'm gonna assume the official thought he was seeing a repeat offense.  The officials don't have the luxury of multiple replays so mistakes in real time are gonna happen.  Unless we want to really slow this game down and review every flag this is what we have to live with.  

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Just now, Pugger said:

But the first hands to the face was a penalty per the NFL.  The 2 instances look very similar so I'm gonna assume the official thought he was seeing a repeat offense.  The officials don't have the luxury of multiple replays so mistakes in real time are gonna happen.  Unless we want to really slow this game down and review every flag this is what we have to live with.  

Sure, the first penalty was. It looked like Flowers' hand was at or near Bakhtiari's throat. The second clearly was not, as Flowers' hand was on his right shoulder.

If the official sees Flowers' hand near Bakhtiari's throat, it's reasonable for him to throw the flag. He couldn't have possibly seen Flowers' hand near his throat on the second penalty, so he shouldn't have thrown the flag.

It's not enough to think "well, it happened before, so it's probably happening right now". A ref should only throw a flag when he actually sees a foul occurring, not when "it might be happening because it happened before".

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

On a different note, we should rename Lambeau Field to Lambeau Mausoleum.  House of the Dead Quiet.  World's Largest Senior Center.  Home field advantage is non-existent.  The flickering lights during a score are a Last Call or Closing Time.  Maybe we need to bus in some inmates from the penitentiary to spice things up in there.

Joking aside, because I do love the "family values" of our crowd, I don't think flickering lights are getting people ramped up and loud - enough to be a real advantage for our home team.  Anyone else got any ideas on how to manufacture some life and noise in the joint?  

There is not really a fair way to change the demographics of the crowd.  We could not allow people over the age of 70 to have season tickets.  We could not allow people over the age of 80 or under the age of 13 into the stadium.  But these things wouldn't fly.  Could they maybe only allow fans to have season tickets for 5 years, then they have to get back on the waiting list? Maybe fewer corporate tickets and more for the general public?

Possibly have a quiet section? Maybe the East sideline from the 40 to the 20 is the section for those who don't want to stand and yell.  Those are generally pretty good seats at most stadiums, so it isn't like these people are completely excluded.  Make that known before hand so those people buy those tickets, and leave other sections for more rowdy fans.  

[Pugger]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I think you're giving Booger way too much credit. Any wrong call that ends a football game will receive national attention, just as they have numerous times this year and last.

It got national attention because it was on national TV.  I'm sure there are other games where a questionable call effected the outcome of a game but only the fan bases of the 2 teams involved know and talk about it.  

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 minute ago, Pugger said:

But the first hands to the face was a penalty per the NFL.  The 2 instances look very similar so I'm gonna assume the official thought he was seeing a repeat offense.  The officials don't have the luxury of multiple replays so mistakes in real time are gonna happen.  Unless we want to really slow this game down and review every flag this is what we have to live with.  

In addition, the second call was affected by the official's position relative to the play. 

He was standing in a position where he observed it from the side.  It looked from that angle that the hand was under the chin, and Bahktiari's head extends back appearing to be force back by the hand.  

The ref doesn't have a second angle like the TV guys do.   Where the official stands makes a huge difference on what gets called on many plays, and this is no different.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, Pugger said:

It got national attention because it was on national TV.  I'm sure there are other games where a questionable call effected the outcome of a game but only the fan bases of the 2 teams involved know and talk about it.  

Perhaps. I wont disagree that it being on national TV provided considerably more exposure, but I do feel that the national media tends to pick up on significantly bad calls regardless.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

4 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Sure, the first penalty was. It looked like Flowers' hand was at or near Bakhtiari's throat. The second clearly was not, as Flowers' hand was on his right shoulder.

If the official sees Flowers' hand near Bakhtiari's throat, it's reasonable for him to throw the flag. He couldn't have possibly seen Flowers' hand near his throat on the second penalty, so he shouldn't have thrown the flag.

It's not enough to think "well, it happened before, so it's probably happening right now". A ref should only throw a flag when he actually sees a foul occurring, not when "it might be happening because it happened before".

From where the official was standing it totally looked like it was on the throat, with Bahktiari's head even moving up and back just like it would with actual hands to the face.

it was a bad call based on an optical illusion / frame of reference issue.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Ragnar Danneskjold

[Leader]

1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Perhaps. I wont disagree that it being on national TV provided considerably more exposure, but I do feel that the national media tends to pick up on significantly bad calls regardless.

Social media and 24/7 sports "news" programming.
Such is life now.

[Sasquatch]

9 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

There is not really a fair way to change the demographics of the crowd.  We could not allow people over the age of 70 to have season tickets.  We could not allow people over the age of 80 or under the age of 13 into the stadium.  But these things wouldn't fly.  Could they maybe only allow fans to have season tickets for 5 years, then they have to get back on the waiting list? Maybe fewer corporate tickets and more for the general public?

Possibly have a quiet section? Maybe the East sideline from the 40 to the 20 is the section for those who don't want to stand and yell.  Those are generally pretty good seats at most stadiums, so it isn't like these people are completely excluded.  Make that known before hand so those people buy those tickets, and leave other sections for more rowdy fans.  

You're correct in that there never will be, or should be any restrictions on who can buy tickets or attend the games, and honestly, I don't want to ever prevent my quiet uncle Joe from enjoying a game at our hallowed stadium.  Nor do I think it's possible to corral the "quiet" folks into a "sit through the entire game" section.

Part of the problem is that nearly one third of the stadium is premium seats behind glass, so we're not going to hear these folks scream, clap, snore, *****, fart or whatever.  So how do you get the other two thirds a little more vocal during defensive stands?  Most stadiums have announcers who get the crowd riled up.  Not having been to Lambeau in many years, I've no clue what it's like now. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Sasquatch