AG20 2020 Mock Offseason

[Scoremore]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

>> MVS isn't a good enough player to be our #2. 

>> Let's sign Perriman.

>> Does not compute.

Perriman>MVS.  He's also just entering his prime and starting to flash.  He has much more experience in the league.  Not exactly sure Rodgers has much confidence in MVS.  Should be a modest signing that could work out nicely for the Pack.  We need a #2 and from what I have seen so far we don't have one.  Think Perriman could be that guy.  Former 1st round pick playing with subpar QB's.  That's my rationale. 

[Packerraymond]

Perriman had his first good 3 game stretch of his career because Tampa lost their #1,2,3 WR. Let's not act like he's anything special. He's getting yards in a massive volume based offense on a team that has no defense.

Perfectly fine signing him cheap and seeing if he can continue it, but he's essentially MVS. Let's not act like he's not a 4 year vet, on his 3rd team who's struggled to post a 50% catch rate everywhere he goes.

[Scoremore]

7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Perriman had his first good 3 game stretch of his career because Tampa lost their #1,2,3 WR. Let's not act like he's anything special. He's getting yards in a massive volume based offense on a team that has no defense.

Perfectly fine signing him cheap and seeing if he can continue it, but he's essentially MVS. Let's not act like he's not a 4 year vet, on his 3rd team who's struggled to post a 50% catch rate everywhere he goes.

Yah I know.  He's affordable and worth taking a shot on.  Think he could be a beast with Aaron throwing him the ball.  We aren't going to sign a high priced WR looking at the FA pool this is the best guy available that we could afford.   Wanted Gutey to trade for Parker from Mia when they were holding their fire sale.  Didn't happen he broke out and was resigned.  Perriman is my next breakout candidate.  He's played with crappy QB's put him with Aaron and see what he can do.  If MVS didn't pull a disappearing act we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Scoremore

[Golfman]

3 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

Yah I know.  He's affordable and worth taking a shot on.  Think he could be a beast with Aaron throwing him the ball.  We aren't going to sign a high priced WR looking at the FA pool this is the best guy available that we could afford.   Wanted Gutey to trade for Parker from Mia when they were holding their fire sale.  Didn't happen he broke out and was resigned.  Perriman is my next breakout candidate.  He's played with crappy QB's put him with Aaron and see what he can do.  If MVS didn't pull a disappearing act we wouldn't be having this conversation.

He lost that ball in the clouds. Plus he didn't realize you could actually extend your arms when trying to catch the ball. 

[Joe]

22 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Stop with what? Part of throw crap at the wall and see what stick do you not understand?  Do you want MVS, Kumerow, Lazard and Allison next year with a draft pick? That's what you're asking for. Cooper isn't happening, not worth even mentioning.

The Patriots do this all the time. Change the environment on a player who has some ability on a cheap deal and see if you can strike it rich. Literally no risks other than the small 1 year salary. Absolutely no point to "stop" asking for these players. They'll be cheap and if they suck could be cut or benched, it wouldn't matter cap wise.

We shouldn't be even close to considering that we're "throwing crap at the wall" when it comes to our receivers. We have a clear WR1 and we're only arguing about a WR2. None of those guys mentioned are going to be a WR2, even if we pulled a New England and one of those guys found greener grass in Green Bay; no pun intended. The point is that they're all JAGs and yet you're whining about going into next year with a group of WR's behind Adams that you think are JAGs along with a draft pick. Pot meet kettle...

 

21 hours ago, JBURGE said:

Dorsett just lost Brady's trust, he's screwed. Perriman, Agholor, Sharpe I could take for sure

Yup...and Agholor's in the same camp with the Philly fans for the same reason J'Mon Moore is in the same camp with us. 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

We shouldn't be even close to considering that we're "throwing crap at the wall" when it comes to our receivers. We have a clear WR1 and we're only arguing about a WR2. None of those guys mentioned are going to be a WR2, even if we pulled a New England and one of those guys found greener grass in Green Bay; no pun intended. The point is that they're all JAGs and yet you're whining about going into next year with a group of WR's behind Adams that you think are JAGs along with a draft pick. Pot meet kettle...

 

Yup...and Agholor's in the same camp with the Philly fans for the same reason J'Mon Moore is in the same camp with us. 

So your solution to the issue is to give up then? 

#2 by committee is what we need. Kumerow and Lazard aren't it. They are UDFAs for a reason. Kumerow is a bad athlete, Lazard is acceptable. Guys like Agholor, Dorsett, Perriman are former 1st round picks. They have glaring holes in their games, but there are also tools that no one else on the roster has. Look at Agholor's YAC ability, no one on this roster has anything close. His hands are rough, yup, any different than past young James Jones or Davante? Nope.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

So your solution to the issue is to give up then? 

#2 by committee is what we need. Kumerow and Lazard aren't it. They are UDFAs for a reason. Kumerow is a bad athlete, Lazard is acceptable. Guys like Agholor, Dorsett, Perriman are former 1st round picks. They have glaring holes in their games, but there are also tools that no one else on the roster has. Look at Agholor's YAC ability, no one on this roster has anything close. His hands are rough, yup, any different than past young James Jones or Davante? Nope.

Apples and oranges. Agholor's in Year 5 and still has horrible hands. Plus, his combined stats as a WR2 aren't really that much better than Jones in their first 5 years and Jones was a WR3/4 for much of his career. You wanna talk YAC? Let's talk about our scheme and how we constantly go for chunk yardage plays of the 10-15 yard variety. I used to think that it was a McCarthy thing, but it's happening under La Fleur so clearly it's an Aaron thing. We beat Minnesota last night primarily with short dump off passes and runs off RG in particular. Only later in the game were we getting first downs on chunk yardage plays when the game was in hand and we were trying to control the clock.

I can get on board with the WR2 by committee and can agree that Kumerow and Lazard are WR3's at best for the time being; but just because a guy is a former 1st round pick doesn't mean he's going to automatically be the answer we're looking for. If you watch the Patriots or Eagles like I do because of my TV market, you'd understand why Agholor and Dorsett aren't even worth kicking the tires. I could possibly buy Perriman, but the injury history is too much for me. 

Whether we like it or not, we're not going to have much change at WR going into next year. It's a hard pill for the majority of y'all to swallow, but it's a fact.

[Mazrimiv]

Depends on what "not much change" is supposed to mean.

If the implication is supposed to be that there won't be any new names in camp legitimately competing for that WR2 spot, that is not a fact.  Not by a long shot.

[Mazrimiv]

Lazard as WR3 seems fine, but I was thinking the same thing about Geronimo a couple years ago.

[Gopackgonerd]

Just now, Mazrimiv said:

Lazard as WR3 seems fine, but I was thinking the same thing about Geronimo a couple years ago.

GMO would be fine if he caught more balls this season. He did catch a 2 pt conversion tho. 

[Leader]

6 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

Lazard as WR3 seems fine, but I was thinking the same thing about Geronimo a couple years ago.

I just hope Lazard will develop the techniques (and confidence) to catch the ball with his hands as opposed to "trapping" it against his upper chest / shoulder pads.

Last night he made a couple nice snags where AR hit him in stride and he pulled it in with his hands only. Good.
He also had a "trap catch" attempt bounce off him and hit the ground. Not so good.
He's a UDFA rookie....so a work in progress....but a good work in progress.

[JBURGE]

Okay add $11m and do this again!

Extends Kenny Clark and uses $8m of $11m

[Packerraymond]

59 minutes ago, JBURGE said:

Okay add $11m and do this again!

Extends Kenny Clark and uses $8m of $11m

A Kenny Clark extension shouldn't have any cap effect or minimal on 2020. He's on the books for 8m next year on the 5 year option. A new deal for him shouldn't alter that. Z's cap hit this year was less than that. 

[JBURGE]

28 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

A Kenny Clark extension shouldn't have any cap effect or minimal on 2020. He's on the books for 8m next year on the 5 year option. A new deal for him shouldn't alter that. Z's cap hit this year was less than that. 

If we do his extension before this year is done, would his signing bonus not also could towards next year? 

Example this week if we sign him to a 5 year $85m extension ($17aav) with $54m gtd, would we not have that $54m split over the 6 total years remaining on the deal? Cap hits below:

2020 5th year option $8m salary + $9m signing bonus
2021 new salary + $9m signing bonus
2022 " 
2023 " 
2024 " 
2025 "

Or would it just keep his 5th year option the same as fully gtd salary and then the new deal starts in 2021?

Edited December 27, 2019 by JBURGE

[TransientTexan]

20 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

A Kenny Clark extension shouldn't have any cap effect or minimal on 2020. He's on the books for 8m next year on the 5 year option. A new deal for him shouldn't alter that. Z's cap hit this year was less than that. 

Yea, I think if you use G.Jarrett’s contract as a reference, 18m signing bonus, but spread over 5 yrs (incl 2020) would be $3.6m for the prorated hits.