AG20 2020 Mock Offseason

[OneTwoSixFive]

7 hours ago, Scoremore said:

OT, WR, DL, ILB perhaps a hybrid S. 

For a hybrid safety look no further than Florida State's Safety, Hamsah Nasirildeen (6'4", 215 - and with room for more weight). Round 2 draft target on the draft network (ranked #64th).

from Marino (draft Network)

Pros - Physically gifted. Features great length and an exciting frame to grow into. His stocky build is noticeable from the waist down and it’s apparent that he isn’t anywhere near maxed out in the upper half. Explosive and fluid mover in all directions, rounding out his highly appealing physical skill set. Has some impressive flashes of a quick trigger and attacking downhill. Ball production is lacking but there are exciting instances on tape of him confidently attacking the football in the air. Natural athlete that is comfortable in space. 

Cons - A bit of a projection and he plays a hybrid role. Does he have a natural position? Has to get stronger to consistently sift through traffic, deconstruct blocks and play through contact. Needs to clean up some angles and play faster overall.

Alternatively, there is Minnesota's Antoine Winfield Jnr, a third round target (draft network rank #99), he is son of the famous AW. He'll never be a hybrid S/ILB as he is 5'10" 195lbs, but he is a heady player that can be last man in defense and allow Savage and Amos to play closer to the LOS. Here is Sikkema's take on him.

As a true freshman in 2016, Winfield Jr. played in 12 games, starting nine of them. Over the next two seasons, Winfield Jr. would play in just four games in each of 2017 and 2018 due to injury, redshirting both seasons. Because of this, he's in his fourth season yet only listed as a redshirt sophomore.

The word that comes to mind when you watch Winfield play is "playmaker." Some defensive backs just try to do their job in terms of batting away passes. Winfield is always looking for his chance to take the ball away, and after that, his immediate though is how he can bring it back for a touchdown. Not every defensive back is wired like that, but Winfield's special teams punt return background lends to that engrained mentality.

Winfield has the athleticism to play in both single high and even man coverage roles. His coverage potential is very high because of how well he sees the field, how fast he can break on the ball and how good his ball skills are. He is also a reliable tackler in run support.

CONS: Winfield's speed likely won't be top of the class when it comes to defensive backs. I wouldn't say he's slow, by any means but he doesn't have that rare next gear when it comes to chasing ball carriers down or making long treks in coverage.

[Fl0nkerton]

8 hours ago, Scoremore said:

I'd buy into that.  However DaVante is not Michael Thomas.  Like the idea of coming up to the line with enough time to audible.  It's been an ongoing problem all year.

Thomas and Adams aren't THAT different. Their offenses just are.

If you put DA in New Orleans I'm willing to bet that he puts up crazy #'s too.

[deathstar]

Antoine Winfield was awesome.

[{Family Ghost}]

22 minutes ago, deathstar said:

Antoine Winfield was awesome.

Pound for pound one of the toughest in the league during his time in the league.  

[hitnhope]

14 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

So the Saints #2 receiver is 34 year old Ted Ginn Jr (who at no point in his career has ever broken 800 yards), and they're still killing it. The Saints #3 receiver is Tre'Quan Smith who has 12 catches all year and they're killing it.

But it's impossible for Rodgers to do well with limited talent at the #2 and #3 receiver spots.

The Packers had 29 year old Jared Cook for 10 games, he went 30/377. The Saints have had 32 year old Jared Cook for 12 games. He's at 38/577

The Saints RBs have 695 receiving yards. The Packer RBs have 677. It's not the running back receiving that's making a difference. 

We're not good at spreading the ball around. We're not good at forcing the ball to a single target. We're not particularly good at anything, and realistically haven't been for a number of years. 

What is hard to figure out?   Payton's system in NO is more fully entrenched and understood.   It is at this time a better system than we are running in GB.

They have as good, or better #1 receiver.   While Ginn is not the best in the world, he is a ton better than MVS.   You won't have to worry about MVS at 34 years old because he will be out of the league.

No has an infinitely better TE - Cook is much better than Graham.

Kamara is better than Jones, but the difference isn't drastic.

You keep laying the difference all on Rodgers, but the difference are across the board between their offense and the Packers.   The Packers offense is deficient of talent at the skill positions.  If the OL doesn't dominate we are in for a long day.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, deathstar said:

Antoine Winfield was awesome.

 

1 hour ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Pound for pound one of the toughest in the league during his time in the league.  

I remember him well.  It isn't often you can both hate and respect a player at the same time.

[TransientTexan]

On 12/18/2019 at 8:11 AM, Pugger said:

Of course we haven't had a GM as aggressive as Gute is since Wolf.  I'm not comparing the 2 outside of they will dip into FA more than Ted ever did.

That remains to be seen. TT dipped into FA plenty when he had the cap space. Most fans are just ignorant of which years the team has cap space and which years they don’t. 

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

That remains to be seen. TT dipped into FA plenty when he had the cap space. Most fans are just ignorant of which years the team has cap space and which years they don’t. 

Preach

[Joe]

11 minutes ago, TransientTexan said:

That remains to be seen. TT dipped into FA plenty when he had the cap space. Most fans are just ignorant of which years the team has cap space and which years they don’t. 

Which is why we need to slow our roll with WR and focus on bigger holes such as IDL and depth at OT. Cooper is the one WR I would like out of this years FA class, but he'll be too pricey and he's been a bit inconsistent though you have to wonder how much of that is Dallas' offense and HC...

[TheOnlyThing]

On 12/18/2019 at 6:11 AM, Pugger said:

Of course we haven't had a GM as aggressive as Gute is since Wolf.  I'm not comparing the 2 outside of they will dip into FA more than Ted ever did.

Well stated Pugger, though of course Gute is also willing to make player trades (in addition to taking part in free agency) unlike what went on in GB before he took over.

When you don't have a GM who relies almost exclusively upon the draft and undrafted free agents in stocking the roster, there are simply more avenues for improving your roster and thus more reason to be optimistic that Gute will do whatever he can to get it done.

The difference between Gute and his predecessor when it comes to free agency can hardly be overstated as accurately captured in the following quote regarding the NFL FREE AGENCY LOSERS in 2019:

"The former Packers general manager has largely been dragged the last few days because new GM Brian Gutekunst is willing to get aggressive and go out and sign multiple free agents in every offseason. This year it was pass rushers Preston Smith and Za'Darious Smith as well as safety Adrian Amos. That's bold, man. We never saw Thompson do that, and it's drawing rave reviews from Packers fans who have always wanted their team to spend money aggressively in free agency."

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Ted-Thompson-loser-of-free-agency-CBS-Sports--130023748/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-free-agency-day-2-john-dorsey-browns-win-big-while-giants-are-biggest-losers-by-trading-odell-beckham/

[Fl0nkerton]

Do you doofuses think we win a Super Bowl without Ted signing Charles Woodson because I sure don't

Also using the OBJ trade isn't really a good example unless I'm misunderstanding the tone of your post ToT

Edited December 19, 2019 by Fl0nkerton

[SSG]

5 hours ago, Fl0nkerton said:

Thomas and Adams aren't THAT different. Their offenses just are.

If you put DA in New Orleans I'm willing to bet that he puts up crazy #'s too.

I like Adams a lot but that's a pretty big stretch IMO.  There is a Grand Canyon size difference in production between the 2 players over their careers and I have a hard time believing that it's the result of a system and just the system.  Michael Thomas is a special player who's currently rewriting the NFL record books.  He was a 110 yard per game WR in the meat of the Saints schedule (LAR, Seattle, Dal, Jax, Chi) with Teddy Checkdown flinging him the rock.  Thomas has played at an insane level all year.

I'm not taking anything away from Adams but I see no comparison between the 2 players.  Adams will need 2 or 3 more years like last year before he's in the same conversation IMO.  

[Fl0nkerton]

7 minutes ago, SSG said:

I like Adams a lot but that's a pretty big stretch IMO.  There is a Grand Canyon size difference in production between the 2 players over their careers and I have a hard time believing that it's the result of a system and just the system.  Michael Thomas is a special player who's currently rewriting the NFL record books.  He was a 110 yard per game WR in the meat of the Saints schedule (LAR, Seattle, Dal, Jax, Chi) with Teddy Checkdown flinging him the rock.  Thomas has played at an insane level all year.

I'm not taking anything away from Adams but I see no comparison between the 2 players.  Adams will need 2 or 3 more years like last year before he's in the same conversation IMO.  

Yeah maybe. My line of thinking was just that they're athletically similar. They aren't necessarily burners, Adams has a higher vert, MT is a bit taller. Adams has an elite release off the LOS, so maybe the difference is just Thomas is better at getting open.

[JBURGE]

I'm pretty ok with not touching safety in any capacity. If we have Amos, Savage, Greene, bring back Ibraheim Campbell and Redmond (ERFA). I'm comfortable with that group 

[Joe]

I really hope we don't trade for OBJ. Cowherd was making a stink about how he felt OBJ has grown up. I know better; this whole "come get me" thing is OBJ trying not to make things worse. You really think he'll be cool being WR2 to Adams? I don't think so...