General off-season discussion/plan thread

[757-NINER]

47 minutes ago, sherm said:

I'd definitely trade pick 13 for him. Hell I might try pick 31 and 3rd next yr? 

Nah. And I like JuJu. But for this team he really doesn't elevate the WR group. Is he a upgrade over Bourne?? Absolutely. A big one. But for my money, him and Deebo are pretty similar. Deebo has more of that RAC/gadget ability but they are similar in how a defense will play them, lined up out wide. 

Really need another WR that is a threat vertically on the outside. That's all this offense is really missing. Just the presence of a another person who defenses can't leave on a island in press nor can be neutralized with shading their side in zone. JuJu doesn't really do that. It'd be like having Boldin and Crabtree again. Helluva of a duo, who will thrive in between the hashes and with JuJu, some back-shoulder fades. But easy enough for any good defense, especially a good CB group to contain and neutralize.

Edited April 23, 2020 by 757-NINER

[Ozzy]

Is Solomon Thomas going to get a chance to start a DT this year for the 49ers?  I think he would be much better inside at DT instead of a edge rusher or worse than that a OLB type in a 3/4 which I think they toyed with early in his career.  Did not know this back story behind him though, hopefully he can get a chance this year, but clearly has been through a lot over the past few years on and off the field.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/25260988

[757-NINER]

42 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Is Solomon Thomas going to get a chance to start a DT this year for the 49ers?  I think he would be much better inside at DT instead of a edge rusher or worse than that a OLB type in a 3/4 which I think they toyed with early in his career.  Did not know this back story behind him though, hopefully he can get a chance this year, but clearly has been through a lot over the past few years on and off the field.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/25260988

I don't think he'll be the starter. AA takes over for DeFo as the defacto 3T and Jones is certain to be the starting NT when healthy. So he'll be the first guy off the bench probably. Now I could see him@3T when we move AA to LE in some of our base personnel. But he's a liability against the run imo. He needs to bulk up a bit. He's still a tweener physically at this point...not big enough to be a true 3T, not small and agile enough to play on the end. Not sure he has a future with this franchise going forward. If he isn't traded, this will be his best year since he was drafted to prove his worth. Especially with DeFo gone. Show and prove time for Solly.

 

[Forge]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Is Solomon Thomas going to get a chance to start a DT this year for the 49ers?  I think he would be much better inside at DT instead of a edge rusher or worse than that a OLB type in a 3/4 which I think they toyed with early in his career.  Did not know this back story behind him though, hopefully he can get a chance this year, but clearly has been through a lot over the past few years on and off the field.

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/25260988

Right now he's probably the starter by default, but I'd be surprised if he his by the time the season rolls around. He kind of sucks. He's just a bad tweener. But he's a good dude for sure. 

[GW21]

8 minutes ago, Forge said:

Right now he's probably the starter by default, but I'd be surprised if he his by the time the season rolls around. He kind of sucks. He's just a bad tweener. But he's a good dude for sure. 

My thought is if we don't add someone to our D-Line with our top picks we should slide AA into DeFo's role and Solly into AA's former role. Solly is pretty solid in the run game on the edge, but he cannot generate any pressure in the pass game from there. We did bring in Willie Henry this offseason too and he showed some pass rushing potential in Baltimore, he could help bring inside pressure in nickel if Solly flops again. 

[sherm]

36 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I don't think he'll be the starter. AA takes over for DeFo as the defacto 3T and Jones is certain to be the starting NT when healthy. So he'll be the first guy off the bench probably. Now I could see him@3T when we move AA to LE in some of our base personnel. But he's a liability against the run imo. He needs to bulk up a bit. He's still a tweener physically at this point...not big enough to be a true 3T, not small and agile enough to play on the end. Not sure he has a future with this franchise going forward. If he isn't traded, this will be his best year since he was drafted to prove his worth. Especially with DeFo gone. Show and prove time for Solly.

 

Wonder if they decide to move AA inside and take another DE in the 1st...Yetur Gross-Matos or AJ Epenesa? It'll be out off left field.

[GW21]

13 minutes ago, sherm said:

Wonder if they decide to move AA inside and take another DE in the 1st...Yetur Gross-Matos or AJ Epenesa? It'll be out off left field.

I thought about him as well. I think he'd be a good replacement for AA if AA is the DeFo replacement. 

[Justone2]

2 minutes ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

I thought about him as well. I think he'd be a good replacement for AA if AA is the DeFo replacement. 

If he is there at 31 and we can't trade down i honestly think he a great add to this defense. He doesn't have the top athleticism you want as a pure edge rusher but in that AA role where he plays base downs on the edge and can rush at times and then rushes from the inside on obvious passing downs i think he can really be a difference maker.

[Forge]

I don't care to move AA inside permanently, tbh. It took 4 years to unlock him and get him going, I'm not looking to potentially neuter him by moving him into a full time 3 tech role and hoping for the best. Honestly, I'd just prefer drafting Blacklock at 31 lol. 

[Justone2]

The only thing i think could influence us going with DT over EDGE is what we want to do upfront. We really don't run that 4-3 under front anymore which makes one of your DE's more of a 3-4 DT. If we want to switch to even more of a Wide 9 look we probably prioritize adding someone on the edge over DT. Ford is a great pass rusher but you can't rely on him being anything in the run game. In that case a true edge one that can both rush and defend the run on the outside makes more sense than Epenesa. 

Also have to wonder if you want to keep AA in the role he excelled in last year or if you want to move him in that Buckner role(basically the biggest effect is on his play in the run game(which he is phenomal at on the outside)).

[Ozzy]

50 minutes ago, Forge said:

Right now he's probably the starter by default, but I'd be surprised if he his by the time the season rolls around. He kind of sucks. He's just a bad tweener. But he's a good dude for sure. 

Sure he is a tweener but you look at his production on Stanford, most was from the DT spot.  He is not a DE and is not a 3/4 OLB which is where they played him usually is it not?  How often has he played as a DT?  In pass rush situations with Bosa/Ford on the end and Thomas/Armstead in the middle that could be hard to handle.  Thomas was dominating at times in college and honestly I think he has just played out of position so far in the NFL, will be curious if Buckner out opens anything up for him but then again they could draft Kinlaw potentially.

[757-NINER]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I don't care to move AA inside permanently, tbh. It took 4 years to unlock him and get him going, I'm not looking to potentially neuter him by moving him into a full time 3 tech role and hoping for the best. Honestly, I'd just prefer drafting Blacklock at 31 lol. 

I don't think he'll play inside permanently. He'll still have some snaps out wide in certain alignments.  But someone has to be that quintessential 3T with DeFo gone and AA is the only person on the roster with skillset and physical make-up to occupy those snaps. Jones will get opportunities there but he's still a NT until he puts together a complete season that shows me different.

Now what we do in the draft will say alot but with the kind of money we paid AA, he's going to be asked to do the heavy lifting inside that fell mostly to DeFo during his time here. That's why expect his sack number to take a hit. He'll now get the attention that DeFo got from blocking schemes. But he could still be a major force because he plays with better 'pop' than DeFo and can disrupt the pocket in other ways.

[Forge]

Just now, Ozzy said:

Sure he is a tweener but you look at his production on Stanford, most was from the DT spot.  He is not a DE and is not a 3/4 OLB which is where they played him usually is it not?  How often has he played as a DT?  In pass rush situations with Bosa/Ford on the end and Thomas/Armstead in the middle that could be hard to handle.  Thomas was dominating at times in college and honestly I think he has just played out of position so far in the NFL, will be curious if Buckner out opens anything up for him but then again they could draft Kinlaw potentially.

 

We have been getting him more inside the last two years and I believe he spent over half his snaps there last year. He hasn't proven to be a very good pass rusher at all from any position, and he's not big enough to hold up against the run on the inside. Right now he's a run stuffing 5 tech with no pass rushing prowess at his best spot. Playing inside hasn't been a great help to him thus far, though obviously with Buckner, he didn't have all the snaps. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, Ozzy said:

Sure he is a tweener but you look at his production on Stanford, most was from the DT spot.  He is not a DE and is not a 3/4 OLB which is where they played him usually is it not?  How often has he played as a DT?  In pass rush situations with Bosa/Ford on the end and Thomas/Armstead in the middle that could be hard to handle.  Thomas was dominating at times in college and honestly I think he has just played out of position so far in the NFL, will be curious if Buckner out opens anything up for him but then again they could draft Kinlaw potentially.

He will get plenty of chances to rush from the inside this season. Probably will be rotating in and out with Jones. I can see him getting a decent amount of snaps from the edge on base downs as Ford will be primarily used in the nickel. Blair, when he gets healthy can share snaps with Thomas.

Thomas definitely has to step up this season. His win rate from the inside up until the first Seattle game was actually really good. Just limited snaps but his play fell out towards the end of the year. Some of it due to playing more snaps on end opposed to inside. 

[Forge]

1 minute ago, 757-NINER said:

I don't think he'll play inside permanently. He'll still have some snaps out wide in certain alignments.  But someone has to be that quintessential 3T with DeFo gone and AA is the only person on the roster with skillset and physical make-up to occupy those snaps. Jones will get opportunities there but he's still a NT until he puts together a complete season that shows me different.

Now what we do in the draft will say alot but with the kind of money we paid AA, he's going to be asked to do the heavy lifting inside that fell mostly to DeFo during his time here. That's why expect his sack number to take a hit. He'll now get the attention that DeFo got from blocking schemes. But he could still be a major force because he plays with better 'pop' than DeFo and can disrupt the pocket in other ways.

Yeah, I don't mind bouncing people around in general. I think that's fine. I'm even a fan of having Bosa inside and stacking he and Ford. I do think that kind of versatility between the line is important.