Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, acowboys62 said:

How do you prove no vaccine?  Will I start having to carry some special card/paper work with me?  I can't imagine that will go over great. 

The airlines wouldn’t have to prove you don’t have it, you’d have to prove you do.

A card, something like that, sure.  
 

As far as going over well, it’s their right.  This is America and they have the freedom to do as they wish.  We have the freedom to spend our money elsewhere.  The “muh freedom” card plays both ways.  (Not directed at you obv)

[acowboys62]

25 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

I disagree. I have found a profound lack of productivity when most of our office was working from home. 

I guess depending your industry that's a people problem IMO. 

[acowboys62]

1 minute ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The airlines wouldn’t have to prove you don’t have it, you’d have to prove you do.

A card, something like that, sure.  
 

As far as going over well, it’s their right.  This is America and they have the freedom to do as they wish.  We have the freedom to spend our money elsewhere.  The “muh freedom” card plays both ways.  (Not directed at you obv)

Oh I agree, you just know how people are "get this vaccine and here is your vaccinated card" "WTF I don't want to damn card"....mind you said person probably drove to get their vaccine with their license which happens to be nothing more than a card.  People are just dumb man. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, acowboys62 said:

Oh I agree, you just know how people are "get this vaccine and here is your vaccinated card" "WTF I don't want to damn card"....mind you said person probably drove to get their vaccine with their license which happens to be nothing more than a card.  People are just dumb man. 

With their ccw card right next to it 😂 

[acowboys62]

Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

With their ccw card right next to it 😂 

LOL that might be the best example for the people who want to cry about their "rights". 

[Shanedorf]

52 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

cautious over a rushed vaccine. 

Much of the "rushing" involves moving paperwork faster. Let's say the report lands on your desk at 4:45pm. In non-covid world, that's tomorrow's work. In COVID world - they are reviewing reports overnight and on the weekends instead of waiting until the next day.

To give you an idea of how much paperwork ? in the past, when a pharma company submitted a New Drug Application, it would fill up 1 or 2 semi-trailers full of documents. ( its electronic now) That's for a new drug, a vaccine would typically be less. But its the biggest baddest book report you ever saw

There's a lot of dead air in these development timelines and they figured out ways to reduce some of that dead time. One example is reviewing data and writing it up - there are ways to have your European team work on it all day, kick it over to your west coast US team to work on it, then it goes to Japan for more work and then back to Europe. So instead of that part of the project taking (3) days at 8 hours each, its completed in (1) 24 hour stretch.

The standardization of data & data formats allows this to happen.
Its also got Priority Review status at the FDA. So instead of it sitting there, it gets worked on immediately.

Much of the "rushing" isn't related to the actual clinical practice or medical procedures, the time savings come from operational efficiencies - and those are only possible when you put everything else on the back burner
 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Shanedorf

[MacReady]

14 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Much of the "rushing" involves moving paperwork faster. Let's say the report lands on your desk at 4:45pm. In non-covid world, that's tomorrow's work. In COVID world - they are reviewing reports overnight and on the weekends instead of waiting until the next day.

To give you an idea of how much paperwork ? in the past, when a pharma company submitted a New Drug Application, it would fill up 1 or 2 semi-trailers full of documents. ( its electronic now) That's for a new drug, a vaccine would typically be less. But its the biggest baddest book report you ever saw

There's a lot of dead air in these development timelines and they figured out ways to reduce some of that dead time. One example is reviewing data and writing it up - there are ways to have your European team work on it all day, kick it over to your west coast US team to work on it, then it goes to Japan for more work and then back to Europe. So instead of that part of the project taking (3) days at 8 hours each, its completed in (1) 24 hour stretch.

The standardization of data & data formats allows this to happen.
Its also got Priority Review status at the FDA. So instead of it sitting there, it gets worked on immediately.

Much of the "rushing" isn't related to the actual clinical practice or medical procedures, the time savings come from operational efficiencies - and those are only possible when you put everything else on the back burner
 

Yes I understand, but after I asked that question I looked into it a little bit with my dumb science knowledge.

Does it not take 5-6 months for a vaccine solely for a new STRAIN of the influenza?

Do other things not take upwards of ten years?

Like I said, I am not against any vaccines.  I’m not a vaccine denier.  I’m pretty sure I have all the regular vaccines.  But is it wrong to think there’s SOME risk in a vaccine that is rushed for a virus that is not yet fully understood?

Is anybody willing to tell me there’s zero risk to that?

I’m healthy at 32 years old.  My risk of COVID death is maybe 1%?  
 

If I was the traveling, big crowd, people person type I would obviously be much more willing to get it early if not for me for others, but I’m low risk to get it, low risk to die from it, so I think I’m being reasonable with being patient on the vaccine for it.

Or is that wrong?  If so, how?

[pwny]

20 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Yes I understand, but after I asked that question I looked into it a little bit with my dumb science knowledge.

Does it not take 5-6 months for a vaccine solely for a new STRAIN of the influenza?

Do other things not take upwards of ten years?

Like I said, I am not against any vaccines.  I’m not a vaccine denier.  I’m pretty sure I have all the regular vaccines.  But is it wrong to think there’s SOME risk in a vaccine that is rushed for a virus that is not yet fully understood?

Is anybody willing to tell me there’s zero risk to that?

I’m healthy at 32 years old.  My risk of COVID death is maybe 1%?  
 

If I was the traveling, big crowd, people person type I would obviously be much more willing to get it early if not for me for others, but I’m low risk to get it, low risk to die from it, so I think I’m being reasonable with being patient on the vaccine for it.

Or is that wrong?  If so, how?

To be fair, this is largely a new *strain* as well. COVID viruses have been around for centuries, and we have been pushing for almost two decades for vaccines for SARS and MERS, which have a lot of similar traits. This isn't a completely new virus that we're learning from scratch. We had a lot of groundwork on the vaccine turned that way. 

 

And also a lot of these other vaccines take so long because they can take that long. There's no pressure before this past year to get the SARS vaccine out, so we could juggle that along with 10 other products we're working on, because none of them are necessarily more pressing than the other. We rent out a machine to sequence a virus and we sequence not only that virus but 12 other ones before we move on to the next thing. So instead of 2 weeks to finish sequencing and get on to the next step, we don't get to the next step until 20 weeks from now because we decided to stop and use our time with the machine to do other stuff too. With a pressing pandemic, all those other *someday we'd like to have this done* stuff gets tossed aside to solely focus on what we have. 

We also have so many other people working on this, for the same reason. There's probably a thousand times more epidemiologists working on this than ever work on any singe version of the flu at one time, and they're all sharing data because it's a pressing matter. Other times you'd keep that info close to the vest so you can show off your big break through and get patted on the back for it. Now, there's no time to gloat about how you figured out a vital important part of something that only impacts a thousand people, now every day what you're working on is impacting that many people, so you share that info as soon as you have it.

[NateDawg]

8 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s interesting how you frame this by equating wearing masks to living in fear.  I equate it to protecting those most vulnerable.  They aren’t wearing a mask for their benefit, but for the benefit of the others around them. It’s not cowering in fear, it’s doing your part as part of a community.  Jmho.

Im not one of these goobers who thinks you need to wear a mask when you’re driving alone in your car, but people continuing to wear masks in crowded, indoor spaces isn’t the worst of ideas, especially if you’re not feeling well.  Like, imagine someone with the flu or a cold simply wearing a mask.  How many less people get to feel like a steaming dumpster for a week? It’s like people would rather risk their lives or lives of others or at a minimum feel like poo for a week all so they don’t have to look “weak“ to the people they see at the grocery store.

I’m not saying this is you, but those folks exist.

Yes, I don’t equate wearing masks to living in fear right now… Just when all of this is in hand. I’m saying when we have our every day life, I don’t expect my kids to wear masks at school growing up, etc. Obviously higher risk situations like right now are different.

[pwny]

3 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Yes, I don’t equate wearing masks to living in fear right now… Just when all of this is in hand. I’m saying when we have our every day life, I don’t expect my kids to wear masks at school growing up, etc. Obviously higher risk situations like right now are different.

Are you suggesting that you think that there's going to be a push for everyone to wear masks every single day for the rest of humanity or something? 

[NateDawg]

10 minutes ago, pwny said:

Are you suggesting that you think that there's going to be a push for everyone to wear masks every single day for the rest of humanity or something? 

I’m suggesting that I have heard a number of people say that after this they are always going to wear a mask. 

[Xenos]

On 10/25/2020 at 7:59 PM, NateDawg said:

https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-california-gavin-newsom-new-rules-gatherings-thanksgiving-1541402

Without this being political towards the Governor, thoughts on this?  Not minimizing the severity of Corona, but man.  Just seems extreme, and no way would I follow this if I lived in Cali on Thanksgiving.  Reasonable restrictions for preventing spread?

This needs to be done. Now how many people will actually obey this order is another question altogether.

[Shanedorf]

45 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

But is it wrong to think there’s SOME risk in a vaccine that is rushed for a virus that is not yet fully understood?

Is anybody willing to tell me there’s zero risk to that?

I’m healthy at 32 years old.  My risk of COVID death is maybe 1%?  

Skepticism is good and I don't think anybody worth listening to would tell you there's zero risk. But for many reasons (as noted by pwny), the timelines in previous vaccine developments aren't as fast as this one because we're going all- hands- on- deck right now. That wasn't the case for any others

The FDA makes their decisions based on Risk/Reward so you doing the same thing makes sense. But death isn't the only risk, so using the 1% number doesn't accurately represent the risk. There are any number of non-death maladies associated with this disease and those issues involve long term problems with your lungs, heart, liver, kidneys, immune system and even brains. Those are kinda important organs for a young man planning on making it to 100

There's also the risk that you could infect the old people standing at your front desk and quibbling over a lower rate and messing up your RevPAR.
So the overall health risks of you contracting the disease are much higher than the 1-5 % chance of death.

Keep asking questions
Eventually you'll be faced with the decision - but as I mentioned earlier there will be tens of thousands of healthcare workers who get it before you do, so you'll have additional data to make your informed decision.

[MacReady]

If they are squabbling over a low rate that is their risk/reward right as an American.  They’re not going to get a lower rate, but by God they can try.

[pwny]

13 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I’m suggesting that I have heard a number of people say that after this they are always going to wear a mask. 

I think when things actually play out, that number’s going to be extremely small. Even in other countries that have large mask usage levels, they do so because of air pollution and other daily threats, not due to past pandemics.

People will probably use masks more when they’re feeling sick, but as a general day to day thing, I think once people get out of the sense of heightened emotions, those that said they’re going to never stop using masks will indeed stop.