1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[HighCalebR]

37 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

What is the big problem with saying we drafted more to stay good going forward then we drafted to get over the top in 2021?    That is what we did.

People can argue over which is the better path.

If we were drafting to improve our SB chances this year we certainly would have tried to address the run defense.  We ignored that because the leadership felt it more important to develop a succession plan at QB and RB

Because its wrong. Sure a better player at one of the DL spots wouldve helped. They obviously trusted D&D for keke. Also brought in a guy Pettine trusted in the middle to make plays.. Although predictably injured. But were not going to be good at stopping the run until we want to be good at stopping the run. It's more of a problem that we're not getting consistent pass rush. Obviously a concerted effort this offseason to make the offense more consistent.

[Smidgeon]

48 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

What is the big problem with saying we drafted more to stay good going forward then we drafted to get over the top in 2021?    That is what we did.

People can argue over which is the better path.

If we were drafting to improve our SB chances this year we certainly would have tried to address the run defense.  We ignored that because the leadership felt it more important to develop a succession plan at QB and RB

I also read recently that interior DL talent hasn't exactly shown up in the league after where we picked (only one quasi-successful rookie DL so far--the guy on Jax).  So maybe that was even worse than the WRs at where we were picking.  Sometimes it's hard to fill gaps in the team when the options are slim.

[hitnhope]

1 hour ago, HighCalebR said:

Because its wrong. Sure a better player at one of the DL spots wouldve helped. They obviously trusted D&D for keke. Also brought in a guy Pettine trusted in the middle to make plays.. Although predictably injured. But were not going to be good at stopping the run until we want to be good at stopping the run. It's more of a problem that we're not getting consistent pass rush. Obviously a concerted effort this offseason to make the offense more consistent.

It is not wrong.   The Packers played long ball last off season.  To be pretend otherwise is ignoring reality.   If they were trying to be better for this year and next they don't make any of the first 3 picks they wound up making.    Can you honestly say that Love, Dillon, or Deguara were going to do anything for them this year?

If short term being better was their goal they would have picked entirely different players.   Examples:  Patrick Queen, Laviska Shenault, Tee HIggins, Blacklock,  Logan Wilson , Justin Madabuike, Davon Hamilton,  Lucas Niang,.   Decent players at positions of short term need.

I'm not saying the Packers were wrong to go the route they did.  time will tell.    But to pretend that the Packers were trying to optimize their team for the 2020 season is simply ignoring what took place.

Gute played the long game,  protecting himself at positions that could potentially lose players AFTER this season rather than reinforce the teams weak spots going into this season.

Intelligent people can argue over which avenue was the better one to take.   But let's not ignore what was done during the last off season, and which route the Packers front office thought was best.   Picking A QB first when you have already have a top 5 one in place answers this question directly.

[Gypsy1027]

Unfortunately, Hitnhope, I have to agree. But count me still in the Queen, Higgins, Aiyk crowd. Que sera, que sera.

[Rodjahs12]

I think it’s obvious us and at least a handful of other teams were drafting as if this season wasn’t going to take place. Were way more unanswered questions in April about how this pandemic would look in the fall.

[HighCalebR]

2 hours ago, hitnhope said:

It is not wrong.   The Packers played long ball last off season.  To be pretend otherwise is ignoring reality.   If they were trying to be better for this year and next they don't make any of the first 3 picks they wound up making.    Can you honestly say that Love, Dillon, or Deguara were going to do anything for them this year?

If short term being better was their goal they would have picked entirely different players.   Examples:  Patrick Queen, Laviska Shenault, Tee HIggins, Blacklock,  Logan Wilson , Justin Madabuike, Davon Hamilton,  Lucas Niang,.   Decent players at positions of short term need.

I'm not saying the Packers were wrong to go the route they did.  time will tell.    But to pretend that the Packers were trying to optimize their team for the 2020 season is simply ignoring what took place.

Gute played the long game,  protecting himself at positions that could potentially lose players AFTER this season rather than reinforce the teams weak spots going into this season.

Intelligent people can argue over which avenue was the better one to take.   But let's not ignore what was done during the last off season, and which route the Packers front office thought was best.   Picking A QB first when you have already have a top 5 one in place answers this question directly.

Deguara 100% was going to see the field. LaFleur has expressed his desire to have a 3 strong RB room. Love was obviously protecting the future. The kicker here is the draft is a great place to set your team up for the future, not necessarily the now. The draft from the previous and two years prior are the ones your banking on making this year much better. 

Laviska is what, Tyler Ervins replacement THIS SEASON? Is Ervin really the weaklink that needs replacing? Thats who you want to use your first round pick on? I want you to seriously state again that Ross Blacklock changes our defense THIS YEAR. Youd be happy with him in the 1st round? Hows Lucas Niang looking out for THIS YEAR? Maybe Hamiltons starting for us, maybe not... You're taking that in round 2? Madabuike same situation these two replace MAdams, how many snaps is that? They're not changing this D THIS YEAR. So youre left with Logan Wilson, a 24 year old rookie in the 2nd round. Who wouldn't have been a clear cut starter either. Or Tee Higgins and Queen in the 1st. Word on Queen is that hes tough in pass. Higgins seems like a great fit for us but he's got serious speed questions, is that a first round WR? Also two positions we obviously dont put 1st round investments into. Lot of names that mean nothing.

Love was probably close to the end of their round 1 tier + he's a QB, and ours is aging. The Packers 2020 draft was about helping this year, next year and the year after. Saying that the Packers FO doesnt care about this year is asinine. Deguara is a pure immediate help pick. He doesnt have massive potential but he's ready to go. Dexter Williams was obviously not our answer and howd we look when we were forced to start Tra Carson? RB's miss time, they just do. We made sure we had some insurance there FOR THIS SEASON. He also helps leverage Jones for the future.

Being short sighted and reaching on needs in the draft is exactly how you lose your job and your team gets worse. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by HighCalebR

[hitnhope]

As I said, you can argue the merits.    What you can't pretend is that the last draft was done toward winning a Super bowl in Rodgers window.

You are doing a great job of pushing the positive toward the Packers actual picks and minimizing the potential of any other options.   I didn't say J Love sucks because we don't know.   You rip on Shenault and HIggins, but they both are off to very good starts to their career.

I don't think there is much question that Blacklock is better than Adams or even Lowery.    Tee Higgins and Shenault both would be our #2 receivers, and certainly better options than ESB, Shepard, and anyone beyond Adams that we throw out there at the position..

You change the bar when you say things like "Saying that the Packers FO doesn't care about this year is asinine".   Nobody made that statement.   What I said was that the Packers chose the option of covering bases over the next several years above the option of being better this year.    I don't know why that is controversial or problematic to say.  It is simply what they chose to do.   They chose to get a 3rd running back when they already have two very good players to cover the position because they will most likely lose either 1 or both after this season.   The logic isn't hard to understand.   It makes sense.     That doesn't change the statement that they put priority on the future over the short term chance at a Super Bowl.     I might argue that it was a year or two early on the replacement QB, but who knows what the opportunity would be in that time frame.

If I were to really want to criticize the Packers leadership team, it would be over the defensive philosophy, and not helping the front 7 play the run better through free agency.    That is where the problem really lies.   If they weren't going to help it through FA, then why are they ignoring it during the draft as well?   We set up succession plans at positions of strength while we had no plan to help our weak areas.

[HighCalebR]

15 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

As I said, you can argue the merits.    What you can't pretend is that the last draft was done toward winning a Super bowl in Rodgers window.

You are doing a great job of pushing the positive toward the Packers actual picks and minimizing the potential of any other options.   I didn't say J Love sucks because we don't know.   You rip on Shenault and HIggins, but they both are off to very good starts to their career.

I don't think there is much question that Blacklock is better than Adams or even Lowery.    Tee Higgins and Shenault both would be our #2 receivers, and certainly better options than ESB, Shepard, and anyone beyond Adams that we throw out there at the position..

You change the bar when you say things like "Saying that the Packers FO doesn't care about this year is asinine".   Nobody made that statement.   What I said was that the Packers chose the option of covering bases over the next several years above the option of being better this year.    I don't know why that is controversial or problematic to say.  It is simply what they chose to do.   They chose to get a 3rd running back when they already have two very good players to cover the position because they will most likely lose either 1 or both after this season.   The logic isn't hard to understand.   It makes sense.     That doesn't change the statement that they put priority on the future over the short term chance at a Super Bowl.     I might argue that it was a year or two early on the replacement QB, but who knows what the opportunity would be in that time frame.

If I were to really want to criticize the Packers leadership team, it would be over the defensive philosophy, and not helping the front 7 play the run better through free agency.    That is where the problem really lies.   If they weren't going to help it through FA, then why are they ignoring it during the draft as well?   We set up succession plans at positions of strength while we had no plan to help our weak areas.

It absolutely was done to help Rodgers window. The love pick us the only one who doesnt directly effect the Rodgers window. The Rodgers window isnt just this year either. I didnt rip on either Shenault or Higgins. I stated there are speed concerns with Higgins, who ran a 4.55 at his pro day and his jumps were concerning. I liked him as a player, but is that a 1st round prospect? Shenault is a gadget player this year, he's probably more going forward but THIS YEAR? He's better than Ervin, but is Ervin the issue?

There absolutely is question if Ross is better than Lancaster and Lowry, even current MAdams. He doesnt play for the Texans, like he hasnt logged a game with 50% of snaps yet.. Theres no leg to stand on here. Large question if Shenault is over MVS at this point. And both wouldve started as the #4 option. Lazard being healthy keeps both on the bench. Again. Are those guys worth 1st round picks? 

It absolutely has been said. And it's what's insinuated when you say they didnt draft to help this year.

Again absolutely neglecting Deguara and the amount of injuries Jones has had throughout his career. This offense requires a running game. LaFleur has stated he wants to be 3 deep in the RB room. Both of those picks were made to insure that the load wasnt squarely on Rodgers shoulders this year, making Rodgers better, making our chances at a SB better.

They did attempt to make the run defense better with Kirksey. But, fairly predictably, kirksey is hurt. The formula they are going with is winning them games. I agree they need to learn when to adjust away from that gameplan but it's undeniably producing W's. 

And again. Nobody in the draft is curing this run D, until the philosophy changes. If Queen is trash in the pass game he doesnt fit the philosophy. And also, how they value picks seems to workout as Kamal us making things work when he's healthy.

[Donzo]

14 hours ago, hitnhope said:

The Packers played long ball last off season. To pretend otherwise is ignoring reality. 

Yep... What a shame.

Gute leveraged the 1st, 2nd & 4th round picks into future replacement players at QB & RB- still shaking my head.

Imagine what this team would be like if Gute turned those assets into a D-lineman & WR.

 

[Rodjahs12]

Replace Dillon with either of Davon Hamilton or Neville Gallimore in round 2 and this draft has a lot less controversy.

 

It wasn’t just picking Love, it was following up that pick with a running back with as much mileage on him as 96 Ford Tempo to be your 3rd RB and then following that up with a utility TE who is probably going to be a full back for his career in the 3rd round. 

[SpeightTheVillain]

And yet the team is 7-2 and is very much in Super Bowl contention, regardless of what some of you here think.

It's almost as if you can attempt to win now while protecting the future.

[Kepler]

It's obvious the packers aren't gunning for the superb owl when they didn't do anything I wanted

[Donzo]

10 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

And yet the team is 7-2 and is very much in Super Bowl contention, regardless of what some of you here think... It's almost as if you can attempt to win now while protecting the future.

That's a good spin, yet not apt at all.

The Packers were a good team in 2019 with a good record and the same is true this year; yet, they are a very flawed team. They were vulnerable, and still are, to getting runover by physical teams. To help fix that they needed upgrades on the DL, ILB & WR.

The team was fortunate to get a talent upgrade at ILB with a 5th rounder & undrafted RFA. Gute almost completely ignored the other needs to the detriment of this years team and parlayed the 1st, 2nd & 4th round picks on developmental replacement players at QB & RB... So, the Packers remain an incomplete good team. Just the way it is.

The team still has hope. Rodgers has to be in Godgers mode and need some favorable matchups... We'll see.

 

[{Family Ghost}]

Did AJ DIllon ever return from the Covid?

[Leader]

I wouldnt classify Dillon as developmental. Good chance he gets more snaps on a different team.