1.26 - Jordan Love [QB; Utah State] - QB1

[Old Guy]

27 minutes ago, Refugee said:

It’s just a simple way to acknowledge that he got much less development than he would have with the OTA’s and at the time, 4 preseason games. Being QB3 throughout a season that limited practice time/contacts also meant he got very few reps.

Now, classroom time and working with the staff and understanding the playbook, he’s got that and it is why he has more confidence stepping in this year. It can’t be denied he lost many valuable reps due to the protocols but of course he still was in the building getting his feet wet. 
 

*also, I said lost offseason which is not the same as season where he would have been riding the bench in any case. 

I didn't mean to refer to just you in that regard! I just happened to quote your post.  I think there have been others as well as a few in the media referring to it as a lost season. Maybe I'm imagining that though.

I'd be willing to bet, being a first round pick, coaches went out of their way to spend additional time with him as well. 

[Refugee]

Just now, Old Guy said:

I didn't mean to refer to just you in that regard! I just happened to quote your post.  I think there have been others as well as a few in the media referring to it as a lost season. Maybe I'm imagining that though.

I'd be willing to bet, being a first round pick, coaches went out of their way to spend additional time with him as well. 

I don’t think you’re imagining it, and no worries I didn’t take it as an attack and hope I wasn’t coming off as overly defensive.

I think casually referring to it as a “lost season” doesn’t look at the real work that he has done but I also think anyone would agree he got much less development than a typical year. I hope he’s tearing it up in the classroom and on the field this summer. 

[craig]

20 hours ago, Refugee said:

... I also think anyone would agree he got much less development than a typical year. ....

This is tangent, but I think that even "a typical year" these days is much, much less development than a generation ago with different CBA's.  When Rodgers was young, for example, he had the opportunity for the extended QB school with MM (and Ruvell), and there was the opportunity for more in-season practices, etc.  In even earlier days, teams sometimes even did the legendary 2-a-days.  

I'm just thinking that development is harder for EVERYBODY now, with reduced practice/training opportunities, even in non-Covid years.  And then Love had some reduced opportunity even relative to that.  

[Leader]

1 hour ago, craig said:

 I'm just thinking that development is harder for EVERYBODY now, with reduced practice/training opportunities, even in non-Covid years.  And then Love had some reduced opportunity even relative to that.  

Yes - the "infratructure" that MM put young QBs through is pretty much gone as a result of off season practice/training rules - but - young QBs come into the league more "Pro-ready" than before. So, there's a bit of a trade off IMO.

[Rainmaker90]

Can people tell me why the media is calling last season a ‘lost season’ for Love?

 

He had a stress free year to learn and master the playbook and the intangibles of being a pro QB. 
 

He didn’t get any reps but it’s not like he didn’t throw . They hired him a person coach . He for sure threw weekly and they worked on his technique; his foot work, release point etc. 

 

Point is, he had a whole stress free , out of the limelight year to smarten up and clean up his fundamentals. 

[HighCalebR]

6 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said:

Can people tell me why the media is calling last season a ‘lost season’ for Love?

Basically because this is the story thats getting clicks right now and they need to find new angles so they can milk it for all its worth. 

Cant wait for the stories when they draft the next hedge bet Brohm. All the while the Packers just stay in contention and relevant.

[Dubz41]

On 6/11/2021 at 10:22 AM, Leader said:

Yes - the "infratructure" that MM put young QBs through is pretty much gone as a result of off season practice/training rules - but - young QBs come into the league more "Pro-ready" than before. So, there's a bit of a trade off IMO.

They are not 'pro ready'.  They are being spoonfed a little at a time and coaches are taking advantage of their running abilities to cover for their 'pro-unreadiness'.

[Leader]

1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

They are not 'pro ready'.  They are being spoonfed a little at a time and coaches are taking advantage of their running abilities to cover for their 'pro-unreadiness'.

I never said they were pro ready. I said they were more pro ready than before.

The unstated portion of my thinking was because of changes in the college game, QBs come out more ready to hit the ground running - than QBs of a few years back. The NFL's become far more pass happy and this is reflected in the college game as well.

I never said or implied that coaching wasnt still required - however, with the restrictions on practices etc in the current CBA - there's actually less on the field coaching activity than back when MM had his QB schools (or whatever he called them).

Add on edit: the running QB is a relatively new advent which (contrary to your implication that they're running more to make up for lack of NFL talent/experience.....) I think simply represents changes in the nature of / quality of the athletes playing QB.

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Leader

[vegas492]

17 hours ago, Leader said:

I never said they were pro ready. I said they were more pro ready than before.

The unstated portion of my thinking was because of changes in the college game, QBs come out more ready to hit the ground running - than QBs of a few years back. The NFL's become far more pass happy and this is reflected in the college game as well.

I never said or implied that coaching wasnt still required - however, with the restrictions on practices etc in the current CBA - there's actually less on the field coaching activity than back when MM had his QB schools (or whatever he called them).

Add on edit: the running QB is a relatively new advent which (contrary to your implication that they're running more to make up for lack of NFL talent/experience.....) I think simply represents changes in the nature of / quality of the athletes playing QB.

 

Guess I don't feel like they are "pro ready" if you are referred to pro style offenses of a decade ago or more.

It has seemed to me that the NFL has incorporated more of the college game into their offensive scheme's recently.  Probably to take advantage of the rookie QB contract.

Lamar Jackson is the perfect example of this.  Though after typing this....I don't think Reid's offense really changed to fit Mahomes.  Watson seemed very "pro ready" and has run that style of offense his entire career.  Herbert?  Yah, I don't think the Chargers changed much for him.  Maybe the Jets should have done that with Darnold.  And the Bares with Trubitsky.

So, maybe I'm not completely right on that statement.  Maybe Jackson is more of an outlier.

Looking at our offense?  Maybe we have a few more RPO's built into it, or maybe that was Rodgers making them happen.  Either way, it's MLF's offense and I don't feel like he's diluting it with collegiate stuff to make a QB like Love work.

[Leader]

51 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Guess I don't feel like they are "pro ready" if you are referred to pro style offenses of a decade ago or more.

It has seemed to me that the NFL has incorporated more of the college game into their offensive scheme's recently.  Probably to take advantage of the rookie QB contract.

Lamar Jackson is the perfect example of this.  Though after typing this....I don't think Reid's offense really changed to fit Mahomes.  Watson seemed very "pro ready" and has run that style of offense his entire career.  Herbert?  Yah, I don't think the Chargers changed much for him.  Maybe the Jets should have done that with Darnold.  And the Bares with Trubitsky.

So, maybe I'm not completely right on that statement.  Maybe Jackson is more of an outlier.

Looking at our offense?  Maybe we have a few more RPO's built into it, or maybe that was Rodgers making them happen.  Either way, it's MLF's offense and I don't feel like he's diluting it with collegiate stuff to make a QB like Love work.

This discussion is a bit too nuanced for me. I think college QBs come into the NFL better prepared to succeed. The degree to which thats the case....this guy versus that guy.....doesn't really matter to me. They all require coaching and experience to perhaps - perhaps - realize their maximum potential.

[cannondale]

On 6/12/2021 at 10:42 AM, Rainmaker90 said:

Can people tell me why the media is calling last season a ‘lost season’ for Love?

 

He had a stress free year to learn and master the playbook and the intangibles of being a pro QB. 
 

He didn’t get any reps but it’s not like he didn’t throw . They hired him a person coach . He for sure threw weekly and they worked on his technique; his foot work, release point etc. 

 

Point is, he had a whole stress free , out of the limelight year to smarten up and clean up his fundamentals. 

Because it pretty much was a lost season. Has there been an MLF presser that didn't talk about the importance of reps and experience ?? I can put out a video throwing 5 yard outs to an uncovered receiver and make it look cool

[Joe]

On 6/12/2021 at 11:42 AM, Rainmaker90 said:

Can people tell me why the media is calling last season a ‘lost season’ for Love?

No preseason and didn't see the field. Spot-on with the rest of your post TBH.

 

On 6/12/2021 at 11:52 AM, HighCalebR said:

Basically because this is the story thats getting clicks right now and they need to find new angles so they can milk it for all its worth. 

Cant wait for the stories when they draft the next hedge bet Brohm. All the while the Packers just stay in contention and relevant.

Relevant? Yes. In contention? No and not because of how Jordan Love will or will not play. The fact is that the NFC West as a division(in particular Seattle and LA) continues to find a way to remain incredibly competitive and in contention year. Again, regardless of how Jordan Love plays, there is going to be some growing pains and time needed to gel all the pieces together. This is why Minnesota won all those paper championships back in the mid-to late 2000's and couldn't do squadoosh when the rubber met the road; the biggest accomplishment of any of those teams is Boatgate on Lake Minnetonka 😄. 

As for the rest of the post, I'm pretty sure Bortles is that hedge bet at least at this time and I'm guessing 2023 would be the draft where a back-up or QBOTF is drafted provided Love doesn't pan out provided Rodgers continues to hold out into the season and/or is traded. 

 

The bottom line is that we don't really know where Love really is until he takes legitimate in-game snaps either in the preseason or as the Week 1 starter. We don't know if he's a bust or not until at least mid-2022 whether Aaron comes back or not. I can't see where we could have productive discussion on the topic until August TBH.

[HighCalebR]

26 minutes ago, Joe said:

No preseason and didn't see the field. Spot-on with the rest of your post TBH.

 

Relevant? Yes. In contention? No and not because of how Jordan Love will or will not play. The fact is that the NFC West as a division(in particular Seattle and LA) continues to find a way to remain incredibly competitive and in contention year. Again, regardless of how Jordan Love plays, there is going to be some growing pains and time needed to gel all the pieces together. This is why Minnesota won all those paper championships back in the mid-to late 2000's and couldn't do squadoosh when the rubber met the road; the biggest accomplishment of any of those teams is Boatgate on Lake Minnetonka 😄. 

As for the rest of the post, I'm pretty sure Bortles is that hedge bet at least at this time and I'm guessing 2023 would be the draft where a back-up or QBOTF is drafted provided Love doesn't pan out provided Rodgers continues to hold out into the season and/or is traded. 

 

The bottom line is that we don't really know where Love really is until he takes legitimate in-game snaps either in the preseason or as the Week 1 starter. We don't know if he's a bust or not until at least mid-2022 whether Aaron comes back or not. I can't see where we could have productive discussion on the topic until August TBH.

Yeah i just disagree. Blake isnt an upside QB anymore. And like you stated they wont know what Love is until Love plays and I don't think the Packers can afford to go into the QB quagmire of hoping a guy pans out for a few seasons without giving him healthy competition. As soon as Rodgers goes, you immediately spend another 1st, 2nd rounder on a QB to compete with Love and hell maybe even Bortles or another vet QB. Theres no way i put all the marbles on 1 guy even for a year until I KNOW i got the guy.. The chance of failure is too high.

So i guess we'll find out the direction they go. As you said. This is just opinion posting at this point, no wrong answers.

[Rainmaker90]

7 hours ago, cannondale said:

Because it pretty much was a lost season. Has there been an MLF presser that didn't talk about the importance of reps and experience ?? I can put out a video throwing 5 yard outs to an uncovered receiver and make it look cool

You’re right. The hours Jordan Love spent learning the playbook , watching film , diagnosing plays , working on his technique , learning how to be a professional meant absolutely nothing ! Just an absolute wasted season . 

[cannondale]

2 hours ago, Rainmaker90 said:

You’re right. The hours Jordan Love spent learning the playbook , watching film , diagnosing plays , working on his technique , learning how to be a professional meant absolutely nothing ! Just an absolute wasted season . 

Of course I'm right. First of all - that coach that you said the Packers hired for Love - has been his personal coach since the 8th grade, so not sure what you're smoking. That means he has been working on his technique with a coach for quite some time now. Show me the offseason video where he drops back to pass and diagnoses a play, or reads a defense, or goes through progressions, because we already know it didn't happen in season. Does dropping back and hopping over blocking dummies before throwing a 5 yard out to an uncovered receiver equal running the offense ? Was he doing 7 on 7's or 11 on 11 running the offense somewhere that you know of and the rest of the world doesn't ? Did the Packers hire 21 guys for that too ? Are you also saying he learned how to tie a tie or drink tea with his pinky out ?  Awesome. And he knows the playbook. Fabulous. Add that up and you have near nothing which equals pretty much a lost season. That's why everyone is saying it. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by cannondale