The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[bucksavage1]

Anyone believe Carr is good enough to lead us against Burrow, Mahomes, Allen? Carr is not good to build a limited roster around to get us to the SB. 
 

Why lock us up with a top tier QB contract when we go against younger better versions. I’d rather go a rookie route contract and build up the team around them. Perhaps we step into the next superstar QB

Edited February 12, 2022 by bucksavage1

[bucksavage1]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:10 AM, Jerry said:

I hope Derek Carr starts playing on a discount like Brady did his entire career.  Take a 20-25M per season contract so we can focus the cap towards signing FAs that will make a difference in getting to the SB.  I really hope it happens but have no clue what the outcome will be.  No way I'm paying him 35-40M per season.  I like the guy but he isn't worth that type of contract.  At that point it's better to just draft a rookie QB and build an OL and WR corps to help him develop.

NFL and players don’t work like that unless it is Brady type. Players maximize their value and take as much as their can on the market. Carr taking a hometown discount for a team that hasn’t won much is unrealistic 

[Jerry]

4 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

NFL and players don’t work like that unless it is Brady type. Players maximize their value and take as much as their can on the market. Carr taking a hometown discount for a team that hasn’t won much is unrealistic 

Yeah.  I know.  It sucks.

[bucksavage1]

9 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Yeah.  I know.  It sucks.

Nature of the sport. Players are one play away from the end of their career 

[BobbyPhil1781]

4 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

 I’d rather go a rookie route contract and build up the team around them. Perhaps we step into the next superstar QB

Have you seen these rookies? There's not great prospects in every class and this year is certainly that. Will a superstar emerge? Maybe but odds are not in their favor

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Have you seen these rookies? There's not great prospects in every class and this year is certainly that. Will a superstar emerge? Maybe but odds are not in their favor

Literally heard almost the same sentence by 85% of the draft forum regarding Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love, Trey Lance, and now Malik Willis. Forum hated all of them with a passion. And strangely most of them loved Josh Rosen who was a god damn statue and super slow processor. 

QB’s in the draft are gambling. Unless you have a #1 pick with a guy like Burrow, Lawrence, Luck, etc. And the fact we never gamble is extremely disappointing. And I don’t want to hear “you gotta build the roster first” all of these teams were in the process of building a roster. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

27 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Literally heard almost the same sentence by 85% of the draft forum regarding Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love, Trey Lance, and now Malik Willis. Forum hated all of them with a passion. And strangely most of them loved Josh Rosen who was a god damn statue and super slow processor. 

QB’s in the draft are gambling. Unless you have a #1 pick with a guy like Burrow, Lawrence, Luck, etc. And the fact we never gamble is extremely disappointing. And I don’t want to hear “you gotta build the roster first” all of these teams were in the process of building a roster. 

You were convinced that Tua was a, can't miss, elite next great QB prospect.  You wanted us to mortgage the future, multiple 1sts to trade up for him and give away Carr for a 2nd rounder.  That take hasn't aged well!  You were jocking Fields last year too and wanted us to trade up for him.  He looked terrible in his rookie season. 

Can you imagine if we would have done what you suggested?  We would have won 4 games last season and would have mortgaged out future to trade up for Tua or Fields.  We would be saddled with a bum QB and having no draft picks would have lead to JM and Ziegler to never signing here. 

I also have no idea what that list is supposed to imply.  You have Allen and Mahomes in the same sentence with Jackson, Love, Lance and Willis?  Those other guys aren't in the same universe as Allen or Mahomes.  

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You were convinced that Tua was a, can't miss, elite next great QB prospect.  You wanted us to mortgage the future, multiple 1sts to trade up for him and give away Carr for a 2nd rounder.  That take hasn't aged well!  You were jocking Fields last year too, wanted us to trade up for him.  He looked terrible in his rookie season.  Can you imagine if we would have done what you suggested?  We would have won 4 games last season and would have mortgaged out future to trade up for Tua.  We would be saddled with a bum QB and having no draft picks would have lead to JM and Ziegler to never sign here. 

I also have no idea what that list is supposed to imply.  You have Allen and Mahomes in the same sentence with Jackson, Love, Lance and Willis?  Those other guys aren't in the same universe as Allen or Mahomes.  

 

Lol you are clearly using hindsight. Allen was the most hated QB prospect on this forum (draft forum specifically), EVER, behind only Jordan Love. And we don’t even know yet if Love might pan out. So they might go 0 for 2 over there. 

QB’s are gambling. Tua is gambling. All of them are gambling. Allen and Mahomes were big time gambling. Herbert was gambling. Wilson, Lance, Mac, and Fields were all gambling. The fact we never gamble is disappointing and a loser franchise mentality. You gamble until you hit one. I can’t remember which coach this was but you draft a QB every year until you hit one (not always in the 1st Round of course). I'm sure @big_palooka knows as he mentioned it recently. 

You are the most risk-adverse poster on here and would try to build a team around Carr for 22 years, and after 19 losing seasons, you would still not realize your biggest mistake. 

Arguing with you about Carr is pointless because your opinion cannot be moved in the slightest. Even if Carr is throwing 6 picks a game, it’d be McDaniels fault for having too complex of a scheme. Guaranteed. No question about it. 

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

41 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Literally heard almost the same sentence by 85% of the draft forum regarding Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love, Trey Lance, and now Malik Willis. Forum hated all of them with a passion. And strangely most of them loved Josh Rosen who was a god damn statue and super slow processor. 

QB’s in the draft are gambling. Unless you have a #1 pick with a guy like Burrow, Lawrence, Luck, etc. And the fact we never gamble is extremely disappointing. And I don’t want to hear “you gotta build the roster first” all of these teams were in the process of building a roster. 

The upside was there with all the guys you mentioned except Love. He's trash. 

The upside in this class is very minimal. Willis is probably the best but he's got a ton of flaws on top of being raw. There is not one QB worthy of a day one pick but they will be simply bc of supply and demand. Those others guys had a few flaws here and there but nowhere near the guys this year. Not even close

[BayRaider]

Even Carr’s biggest supporters on here have at least criticized him after bad games, bad streaks, admitting flaws with his skillset, flirted with the idea of moving on, etc. 

Frankie, in 8 years, has never written one single critical sentence about Derek Carr. That speaks volumes. If Carr is on one of his massive bad streaks, he just disappears, or blames everyone but Carr. Then resurfaces after one good game to say “I told you so, you’re all so stupid”. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

16 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You were convinced that Tua was a, can't miss, elite next great QB prospect.  You wanted us to mortgage the future, multiple 1sts to trade up for him and give away Carr for a 2nd rounder.  That take hasn't aged well!  

Oh god.... You have to be joking? First Love now Tua? Yeah, can't trust QB assessments from people pimping those two. 

[BayRaider]

4 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Oh god.... You have to be joking? First Love now Tua? Yeah, can't trust QB assessments from people pimping those two. 

You do realize I had Love as a Mid 1st Rounder, and in the #19 pick thread, he was only my 6th choice. The narrative that I “pimped” Love and “wanted him on the Raiders at all costs” is desperate fantasy. 

Yes, I liked Tua, a lot, and jury is still out on him. To be fair, almost everyone had Tua in their Top 5, and all QB’s are gambling as I said. You gamble until you hit one. Plain and simple. 

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You do realize I had Love as a Mid 1st Rounder, and in the #19 pick thread, he was only my 6th choice. The narrative that I “pimped” Love and “wanted him on the Raiders at all costs” is desperate fantasy. 

Yes, I liked Tua, a lot, and jury is still out on him. To be fair, almost everyone had Tua in their Top 5, and all QB’s are gambling as I said. You gamble until you hit one. Plain and simple. 

I thought tua wasn’t a first round prospect. Physically he was very unimpressive and I really saw him being a product of the guys around him. Just my 2 cents.

[Frankie2Gunz]

18 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Lol you are clearly using hindsight. Allen was the most hated QB prospect on this forum (draft forum specifically), EVER, behind only Jordan Love. And we don’t even know yet if Love might pan out. So they might go 0 for 2 over there. 

QB’s are gambling. Tua is gambling. All of them are gambling. Allen and Mahomes were big time gambling. Herbert was gambling. Wilson, Lance, Mac, and Fields were all gambling. The fact we never gamble is disappointing and a loser franchise mentality. You gamble until you hit one. I can’t remember which coach this was but you draft a QB every year until you hit one (not always in the 1st Round of course). I'm sure @big_palooka knows as he mentioned it recently. 

You are the most risk-adverse poster on here and would try to build a team around Carr for 22 years, and after 19 losing seasons, you would still not realize your biggest mistake. 

Arguing with you about Carr is pointless because your opinion cannot be moved in the slightest. Even if Carr is throwing 6 picks a game, it’d be McDaniels fault for having too complex of a scheme. Guaranteed. No question about it. 

 

Haha once again you're misinformed and incorrect.  I have always been open to drafting a QB in the 3rd and beyond, developing them until we know what we have and then if they don't pan out you do it again.  You do that until you have an upgrade.  Very little draft capital risked, if one hits and is an upgrade over Carr then we move on.  

The problem with your ridiculous opinion is two fold.  This team lacks depth and talent, we need to spend that draft capital on drafting elite players at skill positions.  The odds of drafting a QB who is an upgrade over Carr or will be over the next 3 seasons is minimal.  How is that not obvious?  The odds on drafting an upgrade is sub 10 percent.  Those are terrible odds.  

You bring up Josh Allen and I was on here saying that the would and should be the 1st overall pick.  He's also been my fantasy starting QB the last two seasons and has lead me to the championship 2 years in a row.  He is without doubt a superstar QB.  

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[BayRaider]

6 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Haha once again you're misinformed and incorrect.  I have always been open to drafting a QB in the 3rd and beyond, developing them until we know what we have and then if they don't pan out you do it again.  You do that until you have an upgrade.  Very little draft capital risked and if one hits and is an upgrade over Carr then we move on.  

The problem with your ridiculous opinion is two fold.  This team lacks depth and talent, we need to spend that draft capital on drafting elite players at skill positions.  The odds of drafting a QB who is an upgrade over Carr or will be over the next 3 seasons is minimal.  How is that not obvious?  The odds on drafting an upgrade is sub 10 percent.  Those are terrible odds.  

You bring up Josh Allen and I was on here saying that the would and should be the 1st overall pick.  He's also been my fantasy starting QB the last two seasons and has lead me to the championship 2 years in a row.  He is without doubt a superstar QB.  

 

This is not true at all as you have never ever mocked or advocated drafting a QB in the 3rd or later. You would not dare want an understudy or competition for Carr. So would you advocate taking a QB in the 3rd this year like Ridder? I doubt it. Always an excuse not too. The roster is never going to be perfect.