The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[BobbyPhil1781]

9 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

You do realize I had Love as a Mid 1st Rounder, and in the #19 pick thread, he was only my 6th choice. The narrative that I “pimped” Love and “wanted him on the Raiders at all costs” is desperate fantasy. 

Yes, I liked Tua, a lot, and jury is still out on him. To be fair, almost everyone had Tua in their Top 5, and all QB’s are gambling as I said. You gamble until you hit one. Plain and simple. 

Love wasn't worth a first round pick though lol. Not even a second IMO. Tua is a shorter, frail, more athletic Chad Pennington. I never understood the desire for him and just bc everyone else did doesn't mean it's right. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

34 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You were convinced that Tua was a, can't miss, elite next great QB prospect.  You wanted us to mortgage the future, multiple 1sts to trade up for him and give away Carr for a 2nd rounder.  That take hasn't aged well!  You were jocking Fields last year too and wanted us to trade up for him.  He looked terrible in his rookie season. 

Can you imagine if we would have done what you suggested?  We would have won 4 games last season and would have mortgaged out future to trade up for Tua or Fields.  We would be saddled with a bum QB and having no draft picks would have lead to JM and Ziegler to never signing here. 

I also have no idea what that list is supposed to imply.  You have Allen and Mahomes in the same sentence with Jackson, Love, Lance and Willis?  Those other guys aren't in the same universe as Allen or Mahomes.  

 

Hmm fields or leatherwood hmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm that’s a tough one lol

Edited February 13, 2022 by NCOUGHMAN

[Frankie2Gunz]

56 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Even Carr’s biggest supporters on here have at least criticized him after bad games, bad streaks, admitting flaws with his skillset, flirted with the idea of moving on, etc. 

Frankie, in 8 years, has never written one single critical sentence about Derek Carr. That speaks volumes. If Carr is on one of his massive bad streaks, he just disappears, or blames everyone but Carr. Then resurfaces after one good game to say “I told you so, you’re all so stupid”. 

You've wanted to move on from Carr for years and all of your suggestions on how to do so have been absolutely horrific.  

You have to realize that having Carr was a major factor in JM coming here.  One of the greatest offensive minds in the NFL singed on to be our coach and one of the main reasons was the stability at the QB position with Carr.

I have been critical of Carr when he doesn't play well.  There are weeks he is off and I would be the first to call him out but your inability to see that the lack of surrounding talent/ terrible D has held him back for his entire career is astounding.  

I have never said that he is a perfect QB and there are QB's in todays game that are and upgrade.  The list is short as Carr is a top 10/12ish QB.  The odds of drafting an upgrade are minimal and the draft capital risked on your suggestions to move up would be massive losses.  

Edited February 13, 2022 by Frankie2Gunz

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Hmm fields or leatherwood hmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmmm that’s a tough one lol

I would have taken your boy Bolton over Alex Leatherwood. He is tearing it up on Kansas City. Bolton was my 30th Player and Leatherwood 57th. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You've wanted to move on from Carr for years and all of your suggestions on how to do so have been absolutely horrific.  

You have to realize that having Carr was a major factor in Jm coming here.  One of the greatest offensive minds in the NFL singed on to be our coach and was of the main reasons was the stability at the QB position with Carr.

I have been critical of Carr when he doesn't play well.  There are weeks he is off and I would be the first to call him out. 

I have never said that he is a perfect QB and there are QB's in todays game that are and upgrade.  The list is short as Carr is a top 10/12ish QB.  The odds of drafting an upgrade are minimal and the draft capital risked on your suggestions to move up would massive losses.  

If jmd likes carr so much he’ll extend his contract.

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 minute ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

If jmd likes carr so much he’ll extend his contract.

They absolutely will extend his contract.  

[Jerry]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

They absolutely will extend his contract.  

They're going to extend the crap out of it.

[Frankie2Gunz]

Just now, Jerry said:

They're going to extend the crap out of it.

Of course they will!

[Nightmare]

Not mad about it. I’ve always been of the opinion that we shouldn’t replace DC unless it was an upgrade - and things are increasingly looking like Rodgers and Wilson will be staying where they are, which means that the number of upgrades out there is… zero?

Will be interesting to hear the figures if/when this extension happens.

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[drfrey13]

20 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Not mad about it. I’ve always been of the opinion that we shouldn’t replace DC unless it was an upgrade - and things are increasingly looking like Rodgers and Wilson will be staying where they are, which means that the number of upgrades out there is… zero?

Will be interesting to hear the figures if/when this extension happens.

I figured this was going to happen and I will be very interested in how it is structured because that will give us a clue as to how McDaniels wants to handle year one.  if they back load it to create cap then they are trying to win right away which I will not be happy about.  I think we front load it and free up cap for 2023 and take 2022 as a retool/rebuild year.  I really hope he does not think this is a playoff team even though we made the playoffs last year.  We were not as good as our record would indicate.  It is my belief we should take one step backwards this year so we can increase our chances of truly building a sustainable winner in 2023 and beyond.

[drfrey13]

9 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Shave about $10-15 million off the extension.  You do not pay over value on an extension because you think they are underpaid on what is remaining.  If you think he is valued at $33 million a year then you give him a 2 year $66 million extension and average it out over 3 years.  So Carr ends up at $29 a year.  I do not think anyone in hear thinks Carr is worth $40 a year.  The point of the extension for Carr is security and pay raise after his current contract.  It is not to make up for him being underpaid this year.  You spread it out over the current year to help the team with the cap in the extension years.  If Carr gets more than 2-3 yrs at over $35 per we are idiots.  I hope they do not structure it similar to Cousins deal which is:

2020		32	$9,500,000	$11,000,000	$500,000	$21,000,000	$62,500,000	$40,028,856($40,028,856)
2021		33	$21,000,000	$10,000,000	-	$31,000,000	$76,000,000	$21,000,000($61,028,856)
2022		34	$35,000,000	$10,000,000	-	$45,000,000	$45,000,000	$35,000,000($96,028,856)

[bucksavage1]

1 minute ago, drfrey13 said:

Shave about $10-15 million off the extension.  You do not pay over value on an extension because you think they are underpaid on what is remaining.  If you think he is valued at $33 million a year then you give him a 2 year $66 million extension and average it out over 3 years.  So Carr ends up at $29 a year.  I do not think anyone in hear thinks Carr is worth $40 a year.  The point of the extension for Carr is security and pay raise after his current contract.  It is not to make up for him being underpaid this year.  You spread it out over the current year to help the team with the cap in the extension years.  If Carr gets more than 2-3 yrs at over $35 per we are idiots.  I hope they do not structure it similar to Cousins deal which is:

2020		32	$9,500,000	$11,000,000	$500,000	$21,000,000	$62,500,000	$40,028,856($40,028,856)
2021		33	$21,000,000	$10,000,000	-	$31,000,000	$76,000,000	$21,000,000($61,028,856)
2022		34	$35,000,000	$10,000,000	-	$45,000,000	$45,000,000	$35,000,000($96,028,856)

If we give Carr 40 million per season 😂 

However it is all about the structure of it. It could be a glorified one year deal. It also could be all smoke, who knows. Until it happens, we don’t know

 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

14 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

If we give Carr 40 million per season 😂 

However it is all about the structure of it. It could be a glorified one year deal. It also could be all smoke, who knows. Until it happens, we don’t know

 

 

Yea the only page I see posting it is also posting that wentz will be traded or released in March.

 

That said 2 yrs is not that bad. This qb class isn’t the best. Can’t say I believe he earned it, more like a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. I think we should sign maxx waller and hunter first tho or things can get ugly. 

[drfrey13]

30 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea the only page I see posting it is also posting that wentz will be traded or released in March.

 

That said 2 yrs is not that bad. This qb class isn’t the best. Can’t say I believe he earned it, more like a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. I think we should sign maxx waller and hunter first tho or things can get ugly. 

Most of the arguments I see for Carr is him losing his weapons but if they give him to much he risks losing his weapons.  I will wait to see what the numbers are before judging.  I am still of the opinion that if we get the right package you trade him but if he takes a small enough contract you keep him.  I think it is more likely you get the right package then him taking less than market value.  I would definitely sign Maxx and Renfrow first but Waller I personally would look into a trade also.  The counter argument to that is how much McDaniels values TEs so this might be a situation of Waller being worth keeping around.  I still might trade him and look for a replacement on day 2 .  There should be a lot of TE talent in the 2nd and 3rd round but would depend on what we got in return.  I would expect a 1st + a little more to trade Waller.