raidr4life Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Are we going to bring up all the designed throws short of the sticks that Gruden called? So Gruden makes Carr choose his targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, raidr4life said: So Gruden makes Carr choose his targets? On designed throws and screens, yes. It's exceedingly obvious. Especially on 3rd and 12+. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: On designed throws and screens, yes. It's exceedingly obvious. Especially on 3rd and 12+. If you're looking for excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Are we going to bring up all the designed throws short of the sticks that Gruden called? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, raidr4life said: If you're looking for excuses. Not really. I've been doing a deep dive into all 22 from our games this year. I've come to some interesting conclusions for sure. One of them was how disappointed i was in how much Gruden essentially "gave up" on 3rd and long and designed a lot of screens, especially delayed screens. A few worked really well, like the one to Waller against Denver, but a lot of them sucked. I don't really need to make excuses. Last year is already done with. I'm just looking to the past to find good and bad that can be projected to the future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Honestly, the only way we'll see the "aggressive" style you guys want (and I do to some extent) is if: Gruden runs more shotgun plays Gruden runs more spread concepts, incuding putting a WR at RB (i.e. Bowden) and flexing them out wide We are able to run play action effectively If we can do those things, you'll see a lot of chunk plays down the field. Like a lot, like in 2016 or even more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Honestly, the only way we'll see the "aggressive" style you guys want (and I do to some extent) is if: Gruden runs more shotgun plays Gruden runs more spread concepts, incuding putting a WR at RB (i.e. Bowden) and flexing them out wide We are able to run play action effectively If we can do those things, you'll see a lot of chunk plays down the field. Like a lot, like in 2016 or even more. What you're saying is absolutely correct. The reason Gruden's O the last 2 years didn't feature more shotgun, spread concepts, play action etc. was clearly and obviously due to lack of talent at the WR position. Our WR's were absolute trash which is a fact and quite a few fans on here can not wrap their heads around this concept. Our WR's have not had the skillsets to be NFL starters let alone do the things that most of you want them to do which severely limits play calling and QB play. It's clear you guys cant grasp this concept or you think the WR's on our roster the last few years possess skills they clearly did not.... Hence the complete overhaul at WR which will open up the playbook once our new young corp gets experience and reps. Edited June 12, 2020 by Frankie2Gunz 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Not really. I've been doing a deep dive into all 22 from our games this year. I've come to some interesting conclusions for sure. One of them was how disappointed i was in how much Gruden essentially "gave up" on 3rd and long and designed a lot of screens, especially delayed screens. A few worked really well, like the one to Waller against Denver, but a lot of them sucked. I don't really need to make excuses. Last year is already done with. I'm just looking to the past to find good and bad that can be projected to the future. When you was going through the 22. Did you see the shots carr missed. Did you see the ones where he refuse to hold the ball an extra sec or 2 to let the route develop. How bout the preread misses. Just womdering. I mean imma call screens and short stuff to if i dont think my qb is gonna take any chances. Aint gonna take a hit to make a play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 6 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Not really. I've been doing a deep dive into all 22 from our games this year. I've come to some interesting conclusions for sure. One of them was how disappointed i was in how much Gruden essentially "gave up" on 3rd and long and designed a lot of screens, especially delayed screens. A few worked really well, like the one to Waller against Denver, but a lot of them sucked. I don't really need to make excuses. Last year is already done with. I'm just looking to the past to find good and bad that can be projected to the future. It’s refreshing to actually get some good insight and analysis and not just complaining and b**ing like so many people do. Id like to know what you thought of the separation the WRs were getting (or not getting) downfield on intermediate to deep routes. From the precursory look I took from all22s the separation was most often very lacking. It wasn’t always but I could understand why Carr wasn’t slinging it, he lacked trust in the WRs. I absolutely think this is why we chose Ruggs, which is dangerous speed, and Edwards with his size+speed. I think Gruden and Mayock recognized the lack of separation AND playmaking after the catch or at the catch point was really limiting our schemes and play calling. Hopefully Ruggs speed can allow him to get separation deep and force S’s to play back. However, we’ll need to hit on these deep passes enough for teams to continuously cover deep. If we’re not teams will slowly creep up to stop the run and minimize short routes and just be willing to take their chances on getting burned deep. I hope Edwards becomes a nice intermediate to deep passing option. Long term I think we should try and bring in a top tier WR1 to complement Ruggs. Luckily for now I believe we should be able to get by on the depth of our TEs, WRs, and RBs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 11 hours ago, raidr4life said: I don't know man i just don't see other QB's constantly throwing short of the sticks all the time agree to disagree. Well, I dont really disagree with you 😀 I agree we throw short of the sticks a lot but I also think that other teams do too, though perhaps not as much. 3rd and long the most common play seems to be a RB screen, probably the best low risk option. I also think rewatching a few games that its very dependant upon where the 3rd down is located. In a teams own half it tends to be a conservative play call like a screen whilst in the opposition half things get much more aggressive. The Raiders in particular do seem to be very vanilla and I think it's partly Carr is conservative, partly the team has lacked talent in the receiving core and partly very timid play calling. Hopefully we've improved the talent level of the receivers and the other two will evolve as a result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 20 hours ago, raidr4life said: And not in the top 20 in the NFL... http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&rank=047&type=Passing&year= Another interesting one is, Carr is tied for 6th in Td's in the first half, but doesn't crack the top 21 for Td's in the 2nd half. this to me screams talent and game planning .. more so then it says anthing about Carr IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 19 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Lol to be fair week one, against Den, we need a first down to close out the game and it is 3rd and 8+ IIRC.. Gruden called an outside WR Screen to Tyrell Williams. WCO is dependant on YAC and Ruggs should dominate in this aspect. Obviously a lot of carrs dump offs were not scripted or screen passes - not trying to say that at all - but gruden expects is WRs to make CBs miss their tackle every so often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 10 hours ago, Darbsk said: The Raiders in particular do seem to be very vanilla and I think it's partly Carr is conservative, partly the team has lacked talent in the receiving core and partly very timid play calling. Hopefully we've improved the talent level of the receivers and the other two will evolve as a result. Gruden's first stint was pretty conservative because when he got traded to Tampa our offense exploded with all the same coaches in place. Gannon, Rice, Brown, Gardner, Wheatly and a dominant Oline. We had a really good Defense though. So even with more talent it might be Gruden's way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 6 hours ago, G said: Gruden's first stint was pretty conservative because when he got traded to Tampa our offense exploded with all the same coaches in place. Gannon, Rice, Brown, Gardner, Wheatly and a dominant Oline. We had a really good Defense though. So even with more talent it might be Gruden's way. We never changed the offense if I remember that's how TB knew our plays. And that team was ready for the next step. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 2 hours ago, raidr4life said: We never changed the offense if I remember that's how TB knew our plays. And that team was ready for the next step. What pisses me off is that was our old coach kicking our arse. Any other team and we probably win. Year before we had 'tuck rule' and a dynasty (Pats) is born but we were the better team Year before Tony Sig lifts his arms to flatten Gannon 350-400lbs and they won it that year. We had a good thing going on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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