MrOaktown_56 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: There's clearly doubt that he's one of the best WR's in the NFL? He has racked up 1,000+ yards in 4/5 seasons in the NFL and overall has been one of the most productive players in the league during his entire career. Guys that are doubted get $20M/Yr extensions? The only WR's in the league that I'd say I'd clearly take over Cooper would be Julio Jones, Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, DeAndre Hopkins, and Tyreek Hill. Then I'd put Cooper right in the mix with guys like OBJ, DaVante Adams, Keenan Allen, and Chris Godwin. Objectively, there is no way I'd take Cooper over any of these guys. There are advanced stats that show his lack of effectiveness versus #1 cornerbacks. I don't want to argue it too much, but he's not one of the "best in the league" in my mind. He's certainly a top 15 receiver, but I don't want to argue semantics. He can produce on an option with multiple options and a strong run game, but the mental game is still lacking. He has it all physically. I don't see the "dog" in him when the ball is in the air and I don't see the trust in his hands when it counts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Objectively, there is no way I'd take Cooper over any of these guys. There are advanced stats that show his lack of effectiveness versus #1 cornerbacks. I don't want to argue it too much, but he's not one of the "best in the league" in my mind. He's certainly a top 15 receiver, but I don't want to argue semantics. He can produce on an option with multiple options and a strong run game, but the mental game is still lacking. He has it all physically. I don't see the "dog" in him when the ball is in the air and I don't see the trust in his hands when it counts. I mean all he does is get you 1,000+ yards year in and year out. The only season he failed to crack the 1,000+ yard mark was in 2017 with post injury Carr when our offense as a whole took a huge step back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 On 7/20/2020 at 3:38 PM, jimkelly02 said: The Mack thing was never about salary. It wasn’t that we couldn’t have a 25M Carr and a 25M Mack. It was the fact that 1. Mack didn’t want to be here 2. the only financial “problem” was the fact that every “guaranteed dollar” had to be put in an escrow account at the time of signing, meaning 90M would have to go into an account immediately. Obviously we always could have afforded both. lol "didnt want to be here" they played hardball and panic traded him 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I mean all he does is get you 1,000+ yards year in and year out. The only season he failed to crack the 1,000+ yard mark was in 2017 with post injury Carr when our offense as a whole took a huge step back. I mean if your criteria is getting 1000 yards then sure. But all in all, with context, I think posters here have a reason to feel how they feel about him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 51 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I mean if your criteria is getting 1000 yards then sure. But all in all, with context, I think posters here have a reason to feel how they feel about him. How many WR in the league consistently produce 1,000+ yards year in and year out? There's like 10 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 11 hours ago, NYRaider said: I mean all he does is get you 1,000+ yards year in and year out. The only season he failed to crack the 1,000+ yard mark was in 2017 with post injury Carr when our offense as a whole took a huge step back. A 1,000 yards is not what it used to be. With how pass happy NFL is now it's obsolete, a good Measuring stick will be 1,200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: A 1,000 yards is not what it used to be. With how pass happy NFL is now it's obsolete, a good Measuring stick will be 1,200. Then why are there only like 10 guys in the league that have done it consistently over the past 5 seasons like Cooper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: Then why are there only like 10 guys in the league that have done it consistently over the past 5 seasons like Cooper? To put things in perspective Cooper had 40 more yd then Waller last year. Cooper is 536 yds short of the leader in yd Michael Thomas( a True Elite WR). That's like 40% more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: To put things in perspective Cooper had 40 more yd then Waller last year. Cooper is 536 yds short of the leader in yd Michael Thomas( a True Elite WR). That's like 40% more. I'm not just talking about a 1 year sample size though. And in 3/4 years Cooper played for one team the whole season he has had a teammate that produced at a 1,000+ yard level as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I'm not just talking about a 1 year sample size though. And in 3/4 years Cooper played for one team the whole season he has had a teammate that produced at a 1,000+ yard level as well. But 1,000 just isn't that good anymore. To justify the trade and his contract he should be 1,200+ in yd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: But 1,000 just isn't that good anymore. To justify the trade and his contract he should be 1,200+ in yd. He was 11 yards shy of 1,200 yards last season. There were only 11 players in the league that produced 1,000+ yards in both 2018 and 2019: • Amari Cooper • Michael Thomas • Julio Jones • Keenan Allen • DeAndre Hopkins • Kenny Golladay • Mike Evans • Stefon Diggs • Tyler Boyd • Robert Woods • OBJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Cooper was 8th in receiving yards last season and over the last two seasons combined he ranks 9th behind: Thomas, Jones, Hopkins, Evans, Allen, Adams, Woods, and Golladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: Cooper was 8th in receiving yards last season and over the last two seasons combined he ranks 9th behind: Thomas, Jones, Hopkins, Evans, Allen, Adams, Woods, and Golladay. I don't know what to tell you. Everything says he's not elite and not worth the price.( 1st and 100 million). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: I'm not just talking about a 1 year sample size though. And in 3/4 years Cooper played for one team the whole season he has had a teammate that produced at a 1,000+ yard level as well. This is a strange one, if you look at just the numbers, Cooper has produced at a very consistent level over the last 5 years but yet the knocks on him are that he is inconsistent, disappears at times and gives up on plays while lacking any type of aggression. Its true he has played at elite level for stretches, while being AWOL at others and I think both sides of the coin can be true that he's consistent season by season but inconsistent game by game. He always seems to be slightly less than the sum of his parts, at times his route running is sublime, he can be electric after the catch and he makes some great grabs but he can also give up on routes, drop easy and crucial passes and just seems disinterested at times. I think it comes down to being mentally soft, Talib knew it, that's why he bullied him and tried to intimidate him. Look at the way Crabtree reacted compared to Cooper who just took it. Its clearly a mental thing and I believe you'd always be left slightly underwhelmed with Cooper, he has all the requisite skills if you were to put them in a tick box but he's like the polar opposite of Renfrow who should be too small, not strong enough, not quick enough but who's as tough as old boots, makes the clutch catches and is greater than the sum of his parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Darbsk said: This is a strange one, if you look at just the numbers, Cooper has produced at a very consistent level over the last 5 years but yet the knocks on him are that he is inconsistent, disappears at times and gives up on plays while lacking any type of aggression. Its true he has played at elite level for stretches, while being AWOL at others and I think both sides of the coin can be true that he's consistent season by season but inconsistent game by game. He always seems to be slightly less than the sum of his parts, at times his route running is sublime, he can be electric after the catch and he makes some great grabs but he can also give up on routes, drop easy and crucial passes and just seems disinterested at times. I think it comes down to being mentally soft, Talib knew it, that's why he bullied him and tried to intimidate him. Look at the way Crabtree reacted compared to Cooper who just took it. Its clearly a mental thing and I believe you'd always be left slightly underwhelmed with Cooper, he has all the requisite skills if you were to put them in a tick box but he's like the polar opposite of Renfrow who should be too small, not strong enough, not quick enough but who's as tough as old boots, makes the clutch catches and is greater than the sum of his parts. Cooper is top 5 for the first half of a season and probably not even in the top 30 in the 2nd half. He's actually consistent with that. Edited July 22, 2020 by oakdb36 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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