Pickle Rick Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, Blue said: I think Swag hit a lot of the same notes I was thinking of in his long post, but I wanted to add that, as someone who came in after (and directly because of) the drama with Mwil, I did not get the sense that what he did in the game was at all related to anything outside the game itself. I can appreciate where Orca was coming from; I certainly think Mwil has some frustration with the frequency of how often he has been scum, and part of being scum is pushing cases you know are bull****. It doesn't make you a popular person with the player you're pushing, and that gets magnified when you end up having to push ****ty cases over and over and over again. However, there is a difference between saying "Mwil pushes us when we're scum because he thinks we're easy to get mislynched/slip up/etc." and saying "Mwil has a grudge against us." The former is related to how Mwil plays the game as a certain alignment and isn't making a judgment call about him as a person, the latter is entirely based on personal feelings that are unrelated to his alignment, role, or anything else game-related. That's what I believe he and the rest of the Mafia group have an issue with. Even if you thought it was personal, accusing him of that wasn't productive and just escalated the situation for no reason. If you really believed that, PM a mod and talk it out with them in private. Saying it in the thread just detracts from the game, especially for people who aren't directly involved. Lastly, I understand that the two of you don't think you team up on people or share info or make personal attacks. I don't believe you do either. But what is important here is not whether you intend to do it, or even whether you do it at all, intentionally or not. What matters is the perception that you are ganging up on people for personal reasons. What you think you're doing and even what you're actually doing doesn't matter, so stop trying to use that as an argument. All that matters is how everyone else feels about it. Is it fair that people have that perception? Maybe not. Personally, I would agree that it isn't fair. But that's how it is. If you two don't make serious efforts to change your tone and watch how you phrase things so that it doesn't cross the line, it's not going to lead to Mafia getting banned, but I would not be surprised at all if it led to the two of you being banned from Mafia. Sorry MD4L. I should have figured out what you were claiming sooner, everything clicked as soon as the guardian angel claim came down. I knew you weren't Mafia--I actually thought you were Solaire fakeclaiming Town and your wincon was to survive to the end of the game, lol. I agree. You also have to look at what mwil is saying as he tries to get us lynched and or killed (some of these may or may not have been him but they absolutely have been used/said) "They are fail town" "Worst players ever" "Town is better without them" "The real game can begin once they are dead" "The game is better without them" "If they are the vig, town is doomed" (could have been swag or dome) "Good riddance, we dont need them" I can go on for days. You all really think those type of statements are gonna be greeted with a smile. Matts suggested conforming a little bit to appease the masses. Why don't the masses look in the mirror before they ask for conformity (To be fair I'm also one to burn everything to the ground before I conform even a little lol). ______ Then you look at this current situation. @The Orca and I are gonna play like everyone else.....not post jack squat this next game. Then people are up in arms bc we are gonna do that. Its bc they know we drive activity, we drive the post count, we are vital to the game whether they like it or not. I guarantee you that if we do what we want this next game, it will be 150 pages or less and days with very few posts. But hey, that's what the masses want, that's what the masses get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Orca Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pickle Rick said: I agree. You also have to look at what mwil is saying as he tries to get us lynched and or killed (some of these may or may not have been him but they absolutely have been used/said) "They are fail town" "Worst players ever" "Town is better without them" "The real game can begin once they are dead" "The game is better without them" "If they are the vig, town is doomed" (could have been swag or dome) "Good riddance, we dont need them" I can go on for days. You all really think those type of statements are gonna be greeted with a smile. Matts suggested conforming a little bit to appease the masses. Why don't the masses look in the mirror before they ask for conformity (To be fair I'm also one to burn everything to the ground before I conform even a little lol). ______ Then you look at this current situation. @The Orca and I are gonna play like everyone else.....not post jack squat this next game. Then people are up in arms bc we are gonna do that. Its bc they know we drive activity, we drive the post count, we are vital to the game whether they like it or not. I guarantee you that if we do what we want this next game, it will be 150 pages or less and days with very few posts. But hey, that's what the masses want, that's what the masses get. @Ragnarok and @theuntouchable this is also a large reason for the gloating during and post game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, The Orca said: @Ragnarok and @theuntouchable this is also a large reason for the gloating during and post game Hands freaking down. (And to prove my superiority to @SwAg ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I know we have had our issues on this topic, so I will tread as delicately as I feel like I can. Everybody seems to view this issue the same way, other than the two of you. It doesn't have to be outright cheating to be an issue that takes enjoyment out of the game for some. Whether it is "twin-brain", the ability to understand each other better than others, or simple a propensity to trust each other more, it is undeniable that you two get in lockstep more than any other 2 posters on this board. That lockstep can manifest itself in pigeonholing theories, accusing players, clearing players, or posing things as "facts" that others see as "opinions" at best. It definitely leaves the door open for people to be turned off, when it feels like they SHOULD be facing a bunch of individuals, but instead are facing what they perceive as a duo. I've done better at treading the waters of this, but I still feel it from time to time, and it certainly appears like others do as well. Not trying to pile onto you guys, but trying to give another perspective of where this issue appears to be coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Pickle Rick said: "They are fail town" "Worst players ever" "Town is better without them" "The real game can begin once they are dead" "The game is better without them" "If they are the vig, town is doomed" (could have been swag or dome) "Good riddance, we dont need them" I can go on for days. I appreciate you summarizing things that have been turn-offs for you in the way your interactions happen here. It is valuable for perspective. I think its obvious that this is toxic as well, and you two don't deserve this, even if they are feeling justified in the way they feel as well. I apologize for the times I have done things like this. I know I did it in the past, and sorry if I have done it more recently 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, The Orca said: Thanks for the input 1. If people dont want the precieved notion of ganging up, dont lump us together or attack both of us. Heck, a mod basically just called me out and said he politely talked to me via PM, which he hasnt, no mod has. If people want change you cant have a giant disconnect like that. Like, what am I suppose to know or change if people dont use specifics. Apparently saying personal vendetta is a no no. I got it (though i disagree)and wont say it anymore 2. Change what tone? If it's only precieved that we are doing something that needs changing how can we change it if it's actually not what is happening? 3. It wont matter because people will get their wish and I wont speak in future games for a while, but it's good to know so maybe if I know the point i can try to change. I also dont agree that people need to change because they are annoying, but that's another discussion entirely imo The thing is, if someone makes a case against 1 of you, it is essentially going to get a 2 person return. the whole we don't vote together : Day 1 of dark souls Day 1 of Burn Notice Day 1 of Dunder Mifflin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Orca Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Tk3 said: I know we have had our issues on this topic, so I will tread as delicately as I feel like I can. Everybody seems to view this issue the same way, other than the two of you. It doesn't have to be outright cheating to be an issue that takes enjoyment out of the game for some. Whether it is "twin-brain", the ability to understand each other better than others, or simple a propensity to trust each other more, it is undeniable that you two get in lockstep more than any other 2 posters on this board. That lockstep can manifest itself in pigeonholing theories, accusing players, clearing players, or posing things as "facts" that others see as "opinions" at best. It definitely leaves the door open for people to be turned off, when it feels like they SHOULD be facing a bunch of individuals, but instead are facing what they perceive as a duo. I've done better at treading the waters of this, but I still feel it from time to time, and it certainly appears like others do as well. Not trying to pile onto you guys, but trying to give another perspective of where this issue appears to be coming from. I get that perspective, but there is no getting past it unless you accept there is no cheating and the "trust" is no different than what other people have with other posters. Counselor and Mwil trust each other no matter what, @bcb1213 got the entire BDL to vote me one game on a silent "fake invest" cause they were the BdL. No one will vote Swag or Touch D1, Racks just follows Swags vote 90% of the time etc (I can go on for pages with this stuff). What's the difference? Imo there is none. I just wont vote Pickle D1. Mwil wont vote like 10 people D1. People wont vote Swag D1 cause he is good. These perspectives and biases and viewpoints are seen in everything and are part of the game. How can we change it other than only 1 of us play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theuntouchable Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Yep, still glad I’ve left mafia. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tk3 said: I know we have had our issues on this topic, so I will tread as delicately as I feel like I can. Everybody seems to view this issue the same way, other than the two of you. It doesn't have to be outright cheating to be an issue that takes enjoyment out of the game for some. Whether it is "twin-brain", the ability to understand each other better than others, or simple a propensity to trust each other more, it is undeniable that you two get in lockstep more than any other 2 posters on this board. That lockstep can manifest itself in pigeonholing theories, accusing players, clearing players, or posing things as "facts" that others see as "opinions" at best. It definitely leaves the door open for people to be turned off, when it feels like they SHOULD be facing a bunch of individuals, but instead are facing what they perceive as a duo. I've done better at treading the waters of this, but I still feel it from time to time, and it certainly appears like others do as well. Not trying to pile onto you guys, but trying to give another perspective of where this issue appears to be coming from. And that goes into this more than a lot. You say we trust each other more etc. You all trust the following way more @Malfatron @SwAg @theuntouchable @Blue @Dome @Tk3 needs i go on..... Basically I can say the exact same thing as those yet it will be laughed at hysterically. I mean this game alone I posted a list that theorized 7-8 scum and 4 of the 5 actual scum on it, faked 2 invests on scum, etc. Yet....."the list swag made was awesome" ______ Basically what I was saying is, you all trust all those players for whatever reason (experience, skill, likability, etc) I trust orca when I can read him and like what I am reading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Orca Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 minute ago, squire12 said: The thing is, if someone makes a case against 1 of you, it is essentially going to get a 2 person return. the whole we don't vote together : Day 1 of dark souls Day 1 of Burn Notice Day 1 of Dunder Mifflin Racks always votes with Swag, what's the difference? What about policy lynching me? But the point about not voting together, was that we dont purposefully get someone lynched/out of the game/settle a vendetta etc by voting together that aspect isnt ther now ever will be. We also dont followneach others votes a lot cause we dont agree A LOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwAg Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 If you’re wondering why my lists get more clout, it’s because they’re color-coded, overall accurate, and provide a snapshot by offering categorization rather than simply listing people, as I list everyone and where they should be based on behavior to that point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, theuntouchable said: Yep, still glad I’ve left mafia. Me trying to play without you and @Forge 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Orca Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, theuntouchable said: Yep, still glad I'm coming back to mafia. FIFY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwAg Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 I don’t think anyone always votes with me. I couldn’t get anyone to listen to me until bcb verifies Mafia tried to kill me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just now, MWil23 said: Me trying to play without you and @Forge @The Orca I do not trust Mwil no matter what. Look how he has been trying to distance from me for games now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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