Browns General Discussion

[MWil23]

43 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

Baker didn't light the match, though.

Sure he did with his farewell post and trade demands. 

[Thomas5737]

6 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Sure he did with his farewell post and trade demands. 

The match striking was trading for Watson. To think it didn't start that way is delusional. Maybe you just don't understand what he meant by striking the match.

[MWil23]

54 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

The match striking was trading for Watson. To think it didn't start that way is delusional. Maybe you just don't understand what he meant by striking the match.

You’re intentionally arguing semantics about who started what when I prefaced things in my OP. 

[Thomas5737]

32 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

You’re intentionally arguing semantics about who started what when I prefaced things in my OP. 

Well I don't think the Browns want Baker here anymore than Baker wants to be here. So I don't think it helps anything to blame Baker for anything pertaining to his unhappiness of losing his starting job and roster spot (they were never paying him 19 million to back up).

If Watson is suspended for the year I'm sure the Browns would discuss Baker but I still don't think they attempt to roll with him after proving they didn't want him here. I just see no way that it's logical when you realize these are real people in a scenario. If they were AI sure, then I could see this working out.

 

We do not wish to be a part of this conversation so please keep our name out of yo mouth!

Edited June 19, 2022 by Thomas5737
Signed, AI

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well I don't think the Browns want Baker here anymore than Baker wants to be here. So I don't think it helps anything to blame Baker for anything pertaining to his unhappiness of losing his starting job and roster spot (they were never paying him 19 million to back up).

If Watson is suspended for the year I'm sure the Browns would discuss Baker but I still don't think they attempt to roll with him after proving they didn't want him here. I just see no way that it's logical when you realize these are real people in a scenario. If they were AI sure, then I could see this working out.

 

We do not wish to be a part of this conversation so please keep our name out of yo mouth!

Using that logic then it would seem he shouldn’t want to play NFL football at all then as no team has been willing to step up and trade for him and make him their starter despite a team friendly cap number for a starter. The whole league seems to think he’s a backup or perhaps a bridge starter at the moment (like the Browns).

I get you’re just discussing how you think he’s reacting, but it’s a dumb af stance on his end.  No one wants you as their starter dude, put your fragile ego aside and go make millions to play ball. 
 

For a dude who seems to pride himself on being a leader, competitor, etc. he sure seems to be slinking away from competition and a pretty damned good opportunity.  The best opportunity he’ll get this year most likely. Yeah, they brought in a guy to replace you.  Happens all the time in the league.  Guys at almost every other position deal with it every year. 
 

Imo either dude sees the opportunity in front of him, puts on his big boy pants and goes and tries to ball out and prepare for UFA or he validates all of the criticisms about maturity that we’ve heard. Any feelings of being “disrespected” or whatever go out the window when they pay you 18 million bucks for one season of football imo.

But I get that he won’t, and I just don’t think it’s a smart move or good look. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Using that logic then it would seem he shouldn’t want to play NFL football at all then as no team has been willing to step up and trade for him and make him their starter despite a team friendly cap number for a starter. The whole league seems to think he’s a backup or perhaps a bridge starter at the moment (like the Browns).

I get you’re just discussing how you think he’s reacting, but it’s a dumb af stance on his end.  No one wants you as their starter dude, put your fragile ego aside and go make millions to play ball. 
 

For a dude who seems to pride himself on being a leader, competitor, etc. he sure seems to be slinking away from competition and a pretty damned good opportunity.  The best opportunity he’ll get this year most likely. Yeah, they brought in a guy to replace you.  Happens all the time in the league.  Guys at almost every other position deal with it every year. 
 

Imo either dude sees the opportunity in front of him, puts on his big boy pants and goes and tries to ball out and prepare for UFA or he validates all of the criticisms about maturity that we’ve heard. Any feelings of being “disrespected” or whatever go out the window when they pay you 18 million bucks for one season of football imo.

But I get that he won’t, and I just don’t think it’s a smart move or good look. 

Well I don't think they will offer him playing time so I think it's moot anyway but I don't agree with you.

This is a little different than a fringe CB being demoted to backup. I can't think of a scenario similar to this besides maybe Rivers being drafted by the Chargers.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well I don't think they will offer him playing time so I think it's moot anyway but I don't agree with you.

This is a little different than a fringe CB being demoted to backup. I can't think of a scenario similar to this besides maybe Rivers being drafted by the Chargers.

Oh I get it’s a unique scenario, mostly because the opportunity to upgrade at the QB position with a player like Watson almost never happens (talking on field talent only here obv).  Like, pro bowl caliber QB’s in their mid 20’s simply don’t become available.

It’s a unique situation because of the position, but not all that unique in general.  Teams look to improve whenever and wherever they can.

We can all argue about Watson off the field (you and I are in agreement there) but on the field it’s pretty clear he’s an upgrade. A fairly sizable one at the most important position on the field in fact.  I’m sure Mike will chime in with some killer facts and logic to dispute this, but that’s the almost universal opinion.

I get being hurt or frustrated or whatever if you’re baker, but at some point you have to accept reality and act on facts/rationally instead of emotion and pride.

As far as the team being willing to play him, I think they’d view it as a possibility.  I took what they said at face value about only looking for/talking to guys they felt were clear upgrades.  They weren’t looking to trade for Jimmy G or whatever.  They weren’t looking for absolutely anyone else, just a notable upgrade if available.  That’s not an unreasonable stance from a professional standpoint.

If we’re going back to who lit the match, idk.  I think you could argue OBJ lit the match when he put Baker’s issues out there for everyone to see.  Maybe Baker lit the match when he refused to sign the extension that was reportedly offered.  Maybe Stefanski when he ran an offense that clearly didn’t accentuate his QB the second half of last season.

IMO I think a lot of folks share some of the blame, including Baker.  The question moving forward is what’s the scenario that helps all parties the most and imo it’s with an understanding between the organization and baker.

[candyman93]

I really think David Bell will fill in for Jarvis Landry. I’ve read he’s been catching everything thrown his way.

 

Makes sense because his strengths are his hands and route running. He’s also tough as hell.

Edited June 19, 2022 by candyman93

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Oh I get it’s a unique scenario, mostly because the opportunity to upgrade at the QB position with a player like Watson almost never happens (talking on field talent only here obv).  Like, pro bowl caliber QB’s in their mid 20’s simply don’t become available.

It’s a unique situation because of the position, but not all that unique in general.  Teams look to improve whenever and wherever they can.

We can all argue about Watson off the field (you and I are in agreement there) but on the field it’s pretty clear he’s an upgrade. A fairly sizable one at the most important position on the field in fact.  I’m sure Mike will chime in with some killer facts and logic to dispute this, but that’s the almost universal opinion.

I get being hurt or frustrated or whatever if you’re baker, but at some point you have to accept reality and act on facts/rationally instead of emotion and pride.

As far as the team being willing to play him, I think they’d view it as a possibility.  I took what they said at face value about only looking for/talking to guys they felt were clear upgrades.  They weren’t looking to trade for Jimmy G or whatever.  They weren’t looking for absolutely anyone else, just a notable upgrade if available.  That’s not an unreasonable stance from a professional standpoint.

If we’re going back to who lit the match, idk.  I think you could argue OBJ lit the match when he put Baker’s issues out there for everyone to see.  Maybe Baker lit the match when he refused to sign the extension that was reportedly offered.  Maybe Stefanski when he ran an offense that clearly didn’t accentuate his QB the second half of last season.

IMO I think a lot of folks share some of the blame, including Baker.  The question moving forward is what’s the scenario that helps all parties the most and imo it’s with an understanding between the organization and baker.

The Browns said they didn't offer that extension to Baker so unless they are lying we need to stop using that against him.

As far as blame I don't think we need to put blame anywhere. The Browns made a decision to get a new starting QB and told Baker they were moving on. They certainly have the right to do that. I'm not sure you can legitimately backtrack and ask him to come back and I don't think they will. Everything beyond that is just stuff we're making up in our head and in most cases trying to put blame on Baker for his actions which are really nothing.

The Browns accepted Baker's trade request (I'm sure they were already looking for trade partners when he requested it) and the Browns told him not to come to camp. They have shown no signs of having him be a back up plan. That's why they signed Jacoby.

Baker and the Browns are now separate entities and I'm fairly certain he isn't in their plans and the Browns aren't in his. Him starting is just a pipe dream and a crackpipe dream at that. Trying to sort out blame when there really isn't any is just an imagination exercise.

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, Thomas5737 said:

The Browns said they didn't offer that extension to Baker so unless they are lying we need to stop using that against him.

As far as blame I don't think we need to put blame anywhere. The Browns made a decision to get a new starting QB and told Baker they were moving on. They certainly have the right to do that. I'm not sure you can legitimately backtrack and ask him to come back and I don't think they will. Everything beyond that is just stuff we're making up in our head and in most cases trying to put blame on Baker for his actions which are really nothing.

The Browns accepted Baker's trade request (I'm sure they were already looking for trade partners when he requested it) and the Browns told him not to come to camp. They have shown no signs of having him be a back up plan. That's why they signed Jacoby.

Baker and the Browns are now separate entities and I'm fairly certain he isn't in their plans and the Browns aren't in his. Him starting is just a pipe dream and a crackpipe dream at that. Trying to sort out blame when there really isn't any is just an imagination exercise.

This

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

The Browns said they didn't offer that extension to Baker so unless they are lying we need to stop using that against him.

As far as blame I don't think we need to put blame anywhere. The Browns made a decision to get a new starting QB and told Baker they were moving on. They certainly have the right to do that. I'm not sure you can legitimately backtrack and ask him to come back and I don't think they will. Everything beyond that is just stuff we're making up in our head and in most cases trying to put blame on Baker for his actions which are really nothing.

The Browns accepted Baker's trade request (I'm sure they were already looking for trade partners when he requested it) and the Browns told him not to come to camp. They have shown no signs of having him be a back up plan. That's why they signed Jacoby.

Baker and the Browns are now separate entities and I'm fairly certain he isn't in their plans and the Browns aren't in his. Him starting is just a pipe dream and a crackpipe dream at that. Trying to sort out blame when there really isn't any is just an imagination exercise.

I don’t disagree, but it just seems like a poor decision by all parties imo.

[MWil23]

Tbh Baker could have said nothing publicly ala Jimmy G post Lantz and/or balled out like Aaron Rodgers post Jordan Love. But he rushed to play the social media game/public trade game and badly miscalculated his value on the trade market.

And the Browns badly miscalculated the PR fallout and underestimated the suspension fallout IMO.

Bad all around.

[Thomas5737]

13 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Tbh Baker could have said nothing publicly ala Jimmy G post Lantz and/or balled out like Aaron Rodgers post Jordan Love. But he rushed to play the social media game/public trade game and badly miscalculated his value on the trade market.

And the Browns badly miscalculated the PR fallout and underestimated the suspension fallout IMO.

Bad all around.

Jimmy G spoke with Lynch in January about places he would like to be traded to. Love/Rodgers isn't anything like Mayfield/Watson but he certainly didn't keep quiet about how he felt about using that pick on a QB and not a WR.

[MWil23]

13 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Jimmy G spoke with Lynch in January about places he would like to be traded to. Love/Rodgers isn't anything like Mayfield/Watson but he certainly didn't keep quiet about how he felt about using that pick on a QB and not a WR.

For Jimmy, he spoke quietly instead of making a big public spectacle and statement, huge difference.

For Rodgers, he went out and won an MVP and never demanded a trade, another huge difference.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

For Jimmy, he spoke quietly instead of making a big public spectacle and statement, huge difference.

For Rodgers, he went out and won an MVP and never demanded a trade, another huge difference.

True, but at the time of the trade most folks felt like Watson might get 4-6 games and then he’s gonna be the dude.  Love was never gonna be the dude year one, so Rodgers knew he always had the chance to do that.

A lengthy suspension changes the potential opportunity for Baker a good bit.

And I get it’s semantics to some degree, but Love was drafted as a successor, not a replacement.