Raiders are trading RB/returner Lynn Bowden Jr to the Dolphins

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, dante9876 said:

Yeah all the information coming from team. Maybe he wasn't the player they thought he was. Instead of just saying we over drafting a gadget guy. Here comes all the character rumors. Shocker young guys like nice cars. Huge news flash. Lynn say he left his house 2. Or 3 times at most. I guess he was on his computer looking at them. Last I check though ruggs was the guy with a whole Instagram video of buying his baby mom's a new ride. This makes no sense. 

So we shouldn't believe the team but trust a guy who was drafted high, has character red flags from college and just got traded trying to save face? Sometimes if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck ............its a duck. 

Why would the team make a point of saying those things if they weren't true? That would alienate half the locker room and breed mistrust. I think the team is being very honest here and not so subtly sending a message that we want guys who work and have a committment.  

[ronjon1990]

7 hours ago, roi34 said:

renfrow? foster? 

very solid picks. guess 4 solid picks is horrible. trayvon wasn't good last year when he played last several weeks?

you guys make me laugh sometimes. 

mostly all guys drafted contributed.

 

guys first nfl draft ever and got good production from all but abram (hurt) and ferrell which I didn't love but this year will be more telling. 

 

 

Trayvon is still a ?. He's far from the "home run" type the post I replied to was insinuating. 

Renfrow is the ultimate try-hard that played above his draft profile. He might be a solid #3. But we didn't draft Ruggs and Edwards for nothing. Between Tyrell, Ruggs, and Edwards, Renfrow was slated for a 4th or 5th role as a pass catcher. Unless we're going to gush because he found an undersized, relatively slow try-hard in the 5th round with WR3 being his absolute ceiling, he also is not a "home run". And I'm not going to do that. He was a pleasant surprise, but one that hardly moves the needle when evaluating Mayock. The guy could literally still find himself as 6th or 7th in the pecking order for crying out loud. 

Moreau is probably our TE 3 and has 21 total career catches for 174 yards. No possible way he's a "home run". That's just silly. 

Getting a 4th and 5th TE-WR combo to total 71 catches for 730 yds and 9 TDs when operating at our default #2 TE and #2 WR isn't really THAT impressive. With Waller dominating, the focus was on him in 2 TE sets. Waller was our best pass catcher last year, and Tyrell was only marginally effective when healthy. Look, I like both Renfrow and Moreau, but their production had as much to do with volume as it did true skill and a look into the future. Both are guys who could easily slide down the depth chart with more talented players coming around. 

[MrOaktown_56]

53 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Trayvon is still a ?. He's far from the "home run" type the post I replied to was insinuating. 

Renfrow is the ultimate try-hard that played above his draft profile. He might be a solid #3. But we didn't draft Ruggs and Edwards for nothing. Between Tyrell, Ruggs, and Edwards, Renfrow was slated for a 4th or 5th role as a pass catcher. Unless we're going to gush because he found an undersized, relatively slow try-hard in the 5th round with WR3 being his absolute ceiling, he also is not a "home run". And I'm not going to do that. He was a pleasant surprise, but one that hardly moves the needle when evaluating Mayock. The guy could literally still find himself as 6th or 7th in the pecking order for crying out loud. 

Moreau is probably our TE 3 and has 21 total career catches for 174 yards. No possible way he's a "home run". That's just silly. 

Getting a 4th and 5th TE-WR combo to total 71 catches for 730 yds and 9 TDs when operating at our default #2 TE and #2 WR isn't really THAT impressive. With Waller dominating, the focus was on him in 2 TE sets. Waller was our best pass catcher last year, and Tyrell was only marginally effective when healthy. Look, I like both Renfrow and Moreau, but their production had as much to do with volume as it did true skill and a look into the future. Both are guys who could easily slide down the depth chart with more talented players coming around. 

If WR3 is his ceiling, why was he putting up huge numbers at the end of his rookie season?

Alternatively, if Moreau played as well as he did in limited snaps, why are you bringing up his numbers as some kind of detriment.

[bucksavage1]

No doubt developmental rookies are struggling without Mini Camp and OTAs. Those are crucial to getting ready for the season and even training camp

[Fracta]

 

[drfrey13]

10 minutes ago, Fracta said:

 

I do not like it but I have to agree.

[ronjon1990]

59 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If WR3 is his ceiling, why was he putting up huge numbers at the end of his rookie season?

Alternatively, if Moreau played as well as he did in limited snaps, why are you bringing up his numbers as some kind of detriment.

Week 16, he went 7 of 9 for 107 and a TD. 

Week 17, he went 6 of 9 for 102 and a TD.

Waller was clearly our top receiving option during the season. Tyrell Williams was basically a non-factor in week 17, playing what, 20 or so snaps without a target? Renfrow was effectively acting as our WR1, which wasn't saying much considering our options. He was operating as our WR2 most of the year. Nobody is saying he's hot garbage. But to insinuate that his overall body of work was a "home run" is a stretch. Davone Bess was never more than a WR3 who benefited from poor receiving corps and being the best among them. Nothing wring with being a solid #3. But lumping Renfrow's impact in with Crosby and Jacobs? C'mon. 

When discussing Mayock, you can say that Renfrow was a solid pick. But you have to also recognize he benefitted from Waller being a focal point for opposing D's and Tyrell being invisible, injured, or not on the field. Is that an indictment of Renfrow going forward? Nobody knows that answer because the season hasn't started. But it also does not make his selection a "home run". 

Same again for Moreau. One can appreciate that a 4th round pick put up decent stats when he played. But to call him a "home run"? Nope. He doesn't have enough of a sample size to even make a determination that he was a "good" pick. I think he was. But if Mayock was on the hot seat right now, the Moreau selection wouldn't be one that saves his job. I don't bring his stats up as a detriment to him. I was pleased with what I saw from him. But again, you can't honestly call it a "home run" pick by Mayock. 

You seem to have ignored or missed what sparked the discussion in the first place- Mayock's "home run" picks. Those would include Jacobs and Crosby to date. Those two are clear cut starters and borderline franchise cornerstones. Renfrow falls into the next down category- a very solid pick. But let's be frank- he was meant to be our WR3 at most last year prior to AB's meltdown. He was forced into a bigger role by necessity and played admirably enough. This year, even with Williams on the rebound, we drafted 2 WRs early that we all expect to be starting caliber WRs. We also signed Nelson Agholor, who comes with plenty of his own ability. Clearly, the coaching staff doesn't see Renfrow as a 1 or 2. The moves reflect that. Moreau, meanwhile, is currently #3 on the depth chart and has a limited number of snaps to his resume. 

A "home run" pick when discussing Mayock's job thus far, would imply a pick that he could hang his hat on to outweigh "bad" picks. If Ferrell and/or Abram don't pan out, do the selections of Renfrow and Moreau negate that? Certainly not yet. So they aren't "home runs". They are right now, at best, good complimentary picks to those of Jacobs and Crosby.

Moving forward, if we fall ridiculously flat and Mayock finds himself on a super hot seat because, say, Ruggs or Mullen, or Arnette or a combination of them fail to pan out as expected, his job isn't getting saved by either of Renfrow or Moreau given the investments in the parties named. It doesn't mean either is bad. It simply means they aren't "home run" picks (yet) and to call them "home run" picks, which was the focus of the discussion, is laughable. 

 

[NYRaider]

57 minutes ago, Fracta said:

He played WR and wild cat QB in college but for whatever reason we really thought he could be our RB2 as a rookie during a season with no OTA, no preseason games, and a weird training camp? 

I was listening to a podcast and they said that they think it's more than just on the field stuff. Maybe he wasn't a good locker room guy? 

[G]

Love the coach sticking up for his guys. Bowden as a WR not a RB but whatever...Bad move by us but good move to move on quickly and get something back. Learn and move on. That 3rd could have been packaged to trade up to get WR Lamb so that will piss off some even more. LOL

Hopefully top 100 picks are used on players not PROJECTS and if not then heads will roll if projects don't work out. Love Mayock but the shine isn't as sparkling at this moment. I've always had an issue with Gruden and will until a playoff victory is in our grasp. 

[NYRaider]

Mayock on why we traded Bowden: 

Quote

"Quite frankly, I think the position change is a difficult one in any year but it's exaggerated in a COVID-19 year with no offseason. You're taking a kid that was a slot receiver in '19, a quarterback in '19, and asking him to play running back in '20. Really the only thing I'm going to say about it is what that it was my call. He was not able to play today at the level expected. Because of that, we felt like we had to make a move. Again, it's 100 percent on me." 

So you didn't anticipate these things when you took him in the third round in a virtual draft where most states were shut down due to covid...

We're not good enough yet to be taking project players with premium picks. 

[NYRaider]

21 minutes ago, G said:

Love the coach sticking up for his guys. Bowden as a WR not a RB but whatever...Bad move by us but good move to move on quickly and get something back. Learn and move on. That 3rd could have been packaged to trade up to get WR Lamb so that will piss off some even more. LOL

Or you could've taken someone that, I don't know... Maybe has actually played the position before? Zack Moss was taken 6 picks later and is projected as the Bills starter this season plus was a guy that was considered a pretty well rounded power back. 

[MrOaktown_56]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Week 16, he went 7 of 9 for 107 and a TD. 

Week 17, he went 6 of 9 for 102 and a TD.

Waller was clearly our top receiving option during the season. Tyrell Williams was basically a non-factor in week 17, playing what, 20 or so snaps without a target? Renfrow was effectively acting as our WR1, which wasn't saying much considering our options. He was operating as our WR2 most of the year. Nobody is saying he's hot garbage. But to insinuate that his overall body of work was a "home run" is a stretch. Davone Bess was never more than a WR3 who benefited from poor receiving corps and being the best among them. Nothing wring with being a solid #3. But lumping Renfrow's impact in with Crosby and Jacobs? C'mon. 

When discussing Mayock, you can say that Renfrow was a solid pick. But you have to also recognize he benefitted from Waller being a focal point for opposing D's and Tyrell being invisible, injured, or not on the field. Is that an indictment of Renfrow going forward? Nobody knows that answer because the season hasn't started. But it also does not make his selection a "home run". 

Same again for Moreau. One can appreciate that a 4th round pick put up decent stats when he played. But to call him a "home run"? Nope. He doesn't have enough of a sample size to even make a determination that he was a "good" pick. I think he was. But if Mayock was on the hot seat right now, the Moreau selection wouldn't be one that saves his job. I don't bring his stats up as a detriment to him. I was pleased with what I saw from him. But again, you can't honestly call it a "home run" pick by Mayock. 

You seem to have ignored or missed what sparked the discussion in the first place- Mayock's "home run" picks. Those would include Jacobs and Crosby to date. Those two are clear cut starters and borderline franchise cornerstones. Renfrow falls into the next down category- a very solid pick. But let's be frank- he was meant to be our WR3 at most last year prior to AB's meltdown. He was forced into a bigger role by necessity and played admirably enough. This year, even with Williams on the rebound, we drafted 2 WRs early that we all expect to be starting caliber WRs. We also signed Nelson Agholor, who comes with plenty of his own ability. Clearly, the coaching staff doesn't see Renfrow as a 1 or 2. The moves reflect that. Moreau, meanwhile, is currently #3 on the depth chart and has a limited number of snaps to his resume. 

A "home run" pick when discussing Mayock's job thus far, would imply a pick that he could hang his hat on to outweigh "bad" picks. If Ferrell and/or Abram don't pan out, do the selections of Renfrow and Moreau negate that? Certainly not yet. So they aren't "home runs". They are right now, at best, good complimentary picks to those of Jacobs and Crosby.

Moving forward, if we fall ridiculously flat and Mayock finds himself on a super hot seat because, say, Ruggs or Mullen, or Arnette or a combination of them fail to pan out as expected, his job isn't getting saved by either of Renfrow or Moreau given the investments in the parties named. It doesn't mean either is bad. It simply means they aren't "home run" picks (yet) and to call them "home run" picks, which was the focus of the discussion, is laughable. 

 

But they don't need to be home runs. Glue guys like moreau and renfrow from mid rounds make a difference in the long run. How many mid round starters did reggie draft?

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

But they don't need to be home runs. Glue guys like moreau and renfrow from mid rounds make a difference in the long run. How many mid round starters did reggie draft?

.....

The conversation was literally about whether or not they were HOME RUNS. So yes, in that discussion and that context, they absolutely do NEED TO BE HOME RUNS TO BE CONSIDERED HOME RUNS. 🤦🏼‍♂️

[roi34]

for his draft status. yeah he was renfrow that is.

if renfrow was drafted what round? 1st? I'm basing it on where he was drafted. what player in the draft out preformed him in the picks around him? also, if you get a solid #3 Wr in that round,yes that's a home run. don't care about size or try hard, all meaningless verbage.  it's about production and he produced for a undersized, try hard guy I guess. lots of wrs went before him. guess you prefer nkeal harry last yr to him?

crosby too. who out performed him in his draft slow grouping? 

 

foster had some huge catches and did his job for rookie TE. I'd say I like what I saw from him than some rookie tes drafted higher in terms of pick and value. 

 

jacobs we can agree on yes? 

 

abram is question mark. and ferrell needs to make a big leap. but you also act as if these guys have played 4 years. 

[MrOaktown_56]

5 hours ago, roi34 said:

for his draft status. yeah he was renfrow that is.

if renfrow was drafted what round? 1st? I'm basing it on where he was drafted. what player in the draft out preformed him in the picks around him? also, if you get a solid #3 Wr in that round,yes that's a home run. don't care about size or try hard, all meaningless verbage.  it's about production and he produced for a undersized, try hard guy I guess. lots of wrs went before him. guess you prefer nkeal harry last yr to him?

crosby too. who out performed him in his draft slow grouping? 

 

foster had some huge catches and did his job for rookie TE. I'd say I like what I saw from him than some rookie tes drafted higher in terms of pick and value. 

 

jacobs we can agree on yes? 

 

abram is question mark. and ferrell needs to make a big leap. but you also act as if these guys have played 4 years. 

This is what I'm saying.

How many GM's hit home run picks? They are very rare. Like maybe 10-15 tops a draft, if that.