Panthers vs Bears GT, 10/18, 12:00

[G08]

1 hour ago, RunningVaccs said:

Foles provided a spark in the Falcons game. Foles has made the offense marginally more functional. Still not sure he's better. 

5.8 yards per attempt! I mean Jesus Christ.

[WindyCity]

22 minutes ago, G08 said:

5.8 yards per attempt! I mean Jesus Christ.

It is horrendous. Trubisky was getting crucified for 6.1 last year.

When you hit 0 deep passes it just kills you offensive efficiency. The Bears have gotten to the point where they are not even attempting them.

[Trubiskytime]

31 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

It is horrendous. Trubisky was getting crucified for 6.1 last year.

When you hit 0 deep passes it just kills you offensive efficiency. The Bears have gotten to the point where they are not even attempting them.

Lol this is so true. Neither QB can hit a deep pass.. Of course not really addressing the o-line in the offseason didn't help them, and it certainly didn't help the run game either.  I still like Mitch but honestly I've been happy for him to get a chance to sit for a while behind Nick. It might be the best thing that's ever happened to him... It's what I wanted for him during the first couple years of his career. But we know how that went. You can't take a kid that raw & unexperienced at #2 overall & have no plan in place for how you're going to develop him. .. I know, I know.. they had Mike Glennon for him to sit behind Lmao… I thought it was still a mistake in his 2nd year to just hand him the job. The guy was never ready & this is really the first time he's had an opportunity to learn from a true veteran QB who has a lot to share. Mahomes has spoken at length about how important it was for him to sit & learn from Alex Smith during his rookie season. .. Not comparing the two guys of course, just making the point that it was even more important for a guy like MT to be put in the right situation to succeed than for a guy like PM. So it's pretty ironic to me that MT's finally getting a chance to receive some tutoring at the end of his 4 years with the team instead of at the beginning. Who knows, maybe it'll help him with his future team.  Alex Smith himself took a really long time to develop into a decent player & struggled badly to complete deep passes. I've never been a fan of Smith but you could say there are some similarities with MT.  Harbaugh basically saved his career & then Andy Reid made him look even better. It's my opinion that Mitch has more raw talent than Alex did… but that's neither here nor there.. I just think it's interesting to observe how players careers can be affected by circumstances. Maybe MT was never gonna make it in this league.. or maybe he'll blossom down the line somewhere else when he's more comfortable. I'd be surprised if Foles can stay healthy behind this o-line though, so I still expect to see MT play again this year for whatever that's worth… .. We probably just end the season getting embarrassed again by green bay anyway.. .. or get to a wild card & have Tampa get revenge… either way it's odd to be 5-1 and still feel like there's nothing to be excited about … 

[Epyon]

So this week's Tape Never Lies video came out for the Panthers game.... and mother of god.... every single offensive lineman missed their block on the play where Foles ended up throwing that awful interception.

And there's multiple clips of Anthony Miller running a route then just walking around the field while the play is still going and he could be blocking..... trade or bench that kid, immediately. I'm sure Wims or Ridley would be happy to play to the whistle if it meant actually getting to see the damn field.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Epyon

[JAF-N72EX]

14 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Stats are liars.  Mitch was struggling against worst defense in league in Falcons and Foles came in cold and lit them up coming all the way back for win.

He got crushed by Colts in his first start (MT would have been way worse) and looked markedly better against Bucs and Carolina.   

If Refs weren’t making or not making game swinging major calls in the Panthers game it likely would have turned into a route instead of being very close and attitude would have been totally different.  

Most everyone thought Bucs and Panthers would beat Bears and we won both match ups.  

He is becoming leader of team slowly.   He isn’t great by any means, but it is a large upgrade over MT.  

But he has same problem MT had, he has a terrible OL.   Really, really hard to play QB with a bad O line.   Burrows is getting ruined right now in Cincinnati with same problem and he has 5x the talent of Foles.

 

 

First off, I hate raw stats and I do believe they need context most of the time.  However, when raw stats become so irrefutably evident and match the eye test at the same time you can't deny that there might be something truthful there. For example, if a QB throws for 50 TDs in a single year, you can't deny that they weren't great that year, no matter how many other factors there were involved to make that happen. On the flip side, if a QB is only completing 38% of his passes on 38 attempts beyond 11 yards then it's hard to argue. Especially when you have seen him take the shorter routes instead of the longer routes who are wide open. 

I agree the game starts up front but not everything can be blamed on the OL. Decision making for a QB is not predicated on how much or how fast the pressure gets to a QB. It's how they react to it and what decisions they make at the time is what separates the bad from good and the good to great. 

As bad as Cincy's OL has been, not even for Burrow should get a pass from some of his throws he has made and decision making. And the same goes for Mitch and Foles. 

 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

16 hours ago, GOGRIESE said:

You said in your previous post in this thread we would have been 5-1 with Mitch as the QB. So you can't even keep your own BS straight. 

Did you even read my last post or are you going to continue to be even more obtuse than you have already shown to be. Of course not, just like any other post here. 

On 10/21/2020 at 12:37 AM, JAF-N72EX said:

The only throw I have seen from Foles that Mitch would not have made is the TD throw in the Falcons game from the pocket under pressure. So no, we may not win that game. But since you wanna play this hypothetical game then I would also argue that we don't win a MORE IMPORTANT DIVISION game against the Lions with Foles since he doesn't have physical ability to escape pressure, out-run the defender, and make a throw like Mitch did to Graham late in the game to get us on the 1 yard line that eventually led to a TD throw to Wims. Which hell, was not an easy throw to make for a right handed QB rolling to his left with such a small window. Foles is a statue. He doesn't have those kind of legs.  

We would lose the Falcons game with Mitch but lose the Lions game with Foles. Still 5-1! Moving along from this nonesense.  Thanks for playing. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by JAF-N72EX

[GOGRIESE]

8 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Did you even read my last post or are you going to continue to be even more obtuse than you have already shown to be. Of course not, just like any other post here. 

We would lose the Falcons game with Mitch but lose the Lions game with Foles. Still 5-1! Moving along from this nonesense.  Thanks for playing. 

 

 

Oh I read it. I think the most telling response was the one after I asked you initially about the Falcons game and you dodged the answer. Hedging your bets and straddling the line in this whole argument while strawmanning my argument with added hyperbole. It's been amusing. Your welcome. See you in the next game thread. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by GOGRIESE

[BeaReylo]

 

[JAF-N72EX]

On 10/22/2020 at 9:42 AM, GOGRIESE said:

Oh I read it. I think the most telling response was the one after I asked you initially about the Falcons game and you dodged the answer. Hedging your bets and straddling the line in this whole argument while strawmanning my argument with added hyperbole. It's been amusing. Your welcome. See you in the next game thread. 

I didn't dodged the answer [sic]. I had already already answered your question. Now answer my question, what evidence do you have to suggest that this offense has been better with Foles? 

I'll wait. This should be amusing as well lol. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by JAF-N72EX

[JAF-N72EX]

28 minutes ago, FosterTheSkins said:

 

This is a SB caliber defense. They only need the offense to be average to have a legit shot. 

[Sugashane]

37 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

This is a SB caliber defense. They only need the offense to be average to have a legit shot. 

And to be that without Goldman as well. I mean damn. It's impressive.

Like I said I hate Pace's work on offense, but he deserves a TON of credit for the defense.

[JAF-N72EX]

8 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

And to be that without Goldman as well. I mean damn. It's impressive.

Like I said I hate Pace's work on offense, but he deserves a TON of credit for the defense.

In Nagy and Foles' defense here, our run game is horrible. Our offense was playing average, albeit lower-end average but average nonetheless, when the run game was working.

Losing Cohen was a bigger loss than I think most expected it to be and it has shown up in tape as well. Patterson is not Cohen. He is not as shifty or have a quick first step like Cohen does. We're also seeing the negatives in pass pro as well. Monty is our only reliable pass blocker but he needs a breather here and there and while Cohen is not fit for the job, he atleast understands the assignments and tries to chip block before releasing unlike Patterson who is completely oblivious to any of these simple concepts. His game against the Colts when he let a free rusher come outside untouched is a good example of this. 

[Sugashane]

35 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

In Nagy and Foles' defense here, our run game is horrible. Our offense was playing average, albeit lower-end average but average nonetheless, when the run game was working.

Losing Cohen was a bigger loss than I think most expected it to be and it has shown up in tape as well. Patterson is not Cohen. He is not as shifty or have a quick first step like Cohen does. We're also seeing the negatives in pass pro as well. Monty is our only reliable pass blocker but he needs a breather here and there and while Cohen is not fit for the job, he atleast understands the assignments and tries to chip block before releasing unlike Patterson who is completely oblivious to any of these simple concepts. His game against the Colts when he let a free rusher come outside untouched is a good example of this. 

 

I can see the defense fitting for Foles, but not Nagy. The run game has been bad since he got here, getting worse each year he has been here. In 2018 Tru was the only reason the run game totals looked average. Take him out and it was back to trash. All three years we have had Leno, Massie, Whitehair, and Daniels playing somewhere. So switching the RG around shouldn't give cause to believe the run game is going to suddenly not suck.

We knew we had Montgomery and Cohen and both were pretty individualized players that fit certain roles, so when we added Patterson as the #3 it was clear if one went down there would be a void. Nagy and Pace took that risk and it is kind of biting us in the ***, but honestly I don't blame them so much for gambling for the RBs to be healthy. Montgomery is a tough SOB and Cohen has never missed a game previously so having a major injury was a shock, and Patterson has missed 1 game in his career. You have to make gambles on health so I can't blame them for gambling there. Having a trash run game is a circular issue. We have QBs that can't hit the deep ball, so the can sit shallow and swarm. Our WRs rarely break tackles and get YAC, so again they can sit and swarm. Our (current) QB is a statue, so option plays aren't an issue and the defense can ignore him in the run game. Then we have RBs that all have a positive trait but none are real playmakers, Montgomery being the closest one but lacking explosion and breakaway speed. These were all things that Pace and Nagy should have seen and addressed, but didn't.

[JAF-N72EX]

3 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

 

I can see the defense fitting for Foles, but not Nagy. The run game has been bad since he got here, getting worse each year he has been here. In 2018 Tru was the only reason the run game totals looked average. Take him out and it was back to trash. All three years we have had Leno, Massie, Whitehair, and Daniels playing somewhere. So switching the RG around shouldn't give cause to believe the run game is going to suddenly not suck.

We knew we had Montgomery and Cohen and both were pretty individualized players that fit certain roles, so when we added Patterson as the #3 it was clear if one went down there would be a void. Nagy and Pace took that risk and it is kind of biting us in the ***, but honestly I don't blame them so much for gambling for the RBs to be healthy. Montgomery is a tough SOB and Cohen has never missed a game previously so having a major injury was a shock, and Patterson has missed 1 game in his career. You have to make gambles on health so I can't blame them for gambling there. Having a trash run game is a circular issue. We have QBs that can't hit the deep ball, so the can sit shallow and swarm. Our WRs rarely break tackles and get YAC, so again they can sit and swarm. Our (current) QB is a statue, so option plays aren't an issue and the defense can ignore him in the run game. Then we have RBs that all have a positive trait but none are real playmakers, Montgomery being the closest one but lacking explosion and breakaway speed. These were all things that Pace and Nagy should have seen and addressed, but didn't.

The OL run blocking has been horrid for years now. But Pace and Nagy can't be blamed for unforeseen circumstances (Cohen going out). Our WRs can't seem to break tackles and gain extra yardage. Monty is a solid back but does not have the explosiveness to challenge defenses and make them afraid of him....

You win Suga. I can't argue any of these points.