Rams vs Bears GT, 10/26, MNF

[blkwdw13]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Imagine Ryan Pace looking at this OL and thinking they were good enough to win with.

Or maybe, Pace listening to Nagy and the coaches that the OLine is fine and they just need a better QB. Which is true or a combination of the two I don't know, just throwing out more discussion.

[Epyon]

3 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said:

Or maybe, Pace listening to Nagy and the coaches that the OLine is fine and they just need a better QB. Which is true or a combination of the two I don't know, just throwing out more discussion.

I'm legitimately expecting us to draft a RB next season now too, because they'll scapegoat Monty for the running game as a whole sucking.

I'm not even a huge fan of Monty's btw, and I actually would strongly consider getting Etienne with a mid-late 1st rounder in the draft (assuming none of our QB targets or OT/OL targets are on the board in that spot), because I think our skill positions simply need more playmakers..... but in Monty's defense the only thing worse than his usage (he's a decent pass catcher, we should be using him much more akin to how Trestman used Forte), has been the blocking in front of him.

 

[topwop1]

53 minutes ago, Epyon said:

I'm legitimately expecting us to draft a RB next season now too, because they'll scapegoat Monty for the running game as a whole sucking.

I'm not even a huge fan of Monty's btw, and I actually would strongly consider getting Etienne with a mid-late 1st rounder in the draft (assuming none of our QB targets or OT/OL targets are on the board in that spot), because I think our skill positions simply need more playmakers..... but in Monty's defense the only thing worse than his usage (he's a decent pass catcher, we should be using him much more akin to how Trestman used Forte), has been the blocking in front of him.

 

I don't want any RB in the 1st.  I don't care how good he is I think it'd be a waste of a pick.  Those guys are a dime a dozen these days.  Just look at what the undrafted kid James Robinson is doing in Jacksonville.

[topwop1]

1 hour ago, blkwdw13 said:

Or maybe, Pace listening to Nagy and the coaches that the OLine is fine and they just need a better QB. Which is true or a combination of the two I don't know, just throwing out more discussion.

This is very possible too.  These guys work hand in hand.  Blaming Pace solely for the OL issues is not the way I would go, although he does deserve a lot of heat for it.

[Epyon]

2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

don't want any RB in the 1st.  I don't care how good he is I think it'd be a waste of a pick.  Those guys are a dime a dozen these days.  Just look at what the undrafted kid James Robinson is doing in Jacksonville.

Like every other position in football..... Statistically you get back what you invest in a position. RB isn't any different in that regard....

Overall, I just apparently rate RBs significantly higher than you... Outside of the QB and Center, they simply touch the ball more than any other offensive player, and it was my position back in the old glory days, so I've got a soft spot for the position in general.

Again, that's not saying Monty is at all bad (I actually think he's being somewhat criminally under/poorly utilized overall, as even with the garbage OL he has good enough hands to be solid in the screen game or as a checkdown), but at the end of the day, he's JAG at the position, and not a significant threat to put points on the board with explosive plays, which is kind of par for the course with the entire skill position set we have on this team, outside of Robinson (who's likely gone next year), and Mooney (who seemingly doesn't have a QB that can actually get the ball near him when he does get open downfield).  I wouldn't even necessarily count a healthy Cohen in that mix the past few years.

[JAF-N72EX]

5 hours ago, Damikeeeee said:

Humble brag?

Yeah it was. Because damn near everyone on here was so quick to jettison him and I kept saying that he did more for this defense than he was being given credit for. Things that don't show up on a standard stat sheet. But because he wasn't a 8-10 sack guy.....he was labeled a bust and easily replaceable.

Meanwhile, I didn't see any player available who could realistically replace him.  I liked the Quinn signing (which nobody thought was available) but Quinn hasn't been able to stay healthy and is costing us 6.1M this year. Floyd has always been healthy and is only costing the Rams 6.6M and he's 2 years younger.

When Floyd was here; he got pressure on the QB at a high rate, he was a solid tackler,  he was good against the run, he maintained his edge assignments, and he had the speed to keep up with RB/TE/WR coming into the flat on his side of the field. These are aspects that we could really use right now.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

19 hours ago, The_Romen said:

They should've kept him and moved him to ILB over DT.

In hindsight, yes. I would not have been opposed to that idea either. Not sure he's fit to play inside but DT is not the same anymore.

That said, outside of health issues, nobody could have predicted DT falling off this bad so I can't say I blame the coaches for that, imo.

[JAF-N72EX]

4 hours ago, blkwdw13 said:

Or maybe, Pace listening to Nagy and the coaches that the OLine is fine and they just need a better QB. Which is true or a combination of the two I don't know, just throwing out more discussion.

Yeah I didn't know Pace was the GM/HC/OC and OL coach too. That's news to me.

[topwop1]

12 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

Yeah it was. Because damn near everyone on here was so quick to jettison him and I kept saying that he did more for this defense than he was being given credit for. Things that don't show up on a standard stat sheet. But because he wasn't a 8-10 sack guy.....he was labeled a bust and easily replaceable.

Meanwhile, I didn't see any player available who could realistically replace him.  I liked the Quinn signing (which nobody thought was available) but Quinn hasn't been able to stay healthy and is costing us 6.1M this year. Floyd has always been healthy and is only costing the Rams 6.6M and he's 2 years younger.

When Floyd was here; he got pressure on the QB at a high rate, he was a solid tackler,  he was good against the run, he maintained his edge assignments, and he had the speed to keep up with RB/TE/WR coming into the flat on his side of the field. These are aspects that we could really use right now.

 

I always thought that Floyd was a pretty decent football player. He didn't live up to his draft position but he was solid nonetheless, especially against the run which Bears seem to be struggling a lot with right now..which also has to do with Goldman being out...

I recall a lot of ppl on here were in favor of moving on from Floyd last offseason so those same ppl can't start blaming Pace for letting him go now. It is what it is.

Anyway...Quinn has made a few nice plays for the team so far though something tells me he isn't 100% healthy right now.

I'm more concerned about Trevethan. he definitely looks like he's lost a step this year.  Damnit they shoulda kept Kwit instead. I was wrong on that one I'll admit it.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by topwop1

[Epyon]

To be fair about Floyd.... He was against Leno or Massie.... and they have interior pressure from Donald which probably meant they had Floyd on an island, and they've both sucked against speed in the past.  I don't personally think his game, even if he had 2 sacks against us, really changes any of my opinions about him, or the decision to let him go...

 

As for Floyd vs Quinn..... We knew this was going to be a tradeoff going into that deal. Floyd was solid vs the run, held the edge when needed, and was stronger in coverage. Overall, he was a garbage pass rusher for his draft status, however, so we went and got Quinn who is significantly worse than Floyd at everything BUT rushing the passer, which is what he was brought here for.   We can certainly debate the merits of whether or not that's really worked out for us overall, but I don't see any of it as particularly surprising. If anything, I was expecting run defense to be a bigger problem going into this year, because I expected the middle to be plugged by Goldman, FORCING more teams to run outside @ Quinn. I was however, also expecting the pass rush to be more threatening than it statistically has been overall in terms of sacks, instead of just pressures.

[Sugashane]

12 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Thank you.

I knew the Bears o-line was bad, but that was from just watching the Bears play the Packers...and I assumed that we knew your offensive scheme well, and were "up" for the game, so maybe the line was better than that and we just played them tough.

After watching last night, I'm convinced that is not the case.  I looked at your RG, Ifedi.  He's a tackle.  A right tackle.  His feet are slow, his back is always at an angle.  He doesn't have flexibility to drop his butt, anchor and move his feet.  He hunches forward and is often unbalanced.  He's pretty bad.

And that LG is even worse.  I think you could literally go to most any practice squad and find someone better than him.  And it's everything with him.  Stance, hands, anchor.  There is just nothing there.  It looks like a DT trying to play OG.  Which I think he is....

But dang, that defense.  It's just fun to watch if you are a fan of football.

I think you are going to split a few games against good teams.  Towards the last few games, Mitch is going back in.  Fresh.  With legs under him and he's gonna actually give you a spark going into the postseason.  If you are really lucky, he wins you a postseason game, gets injured, then Foles comes in and works his playoff magic.

Having a little fun there, but I do think Mitch comes back in at some point and his legs makes your offense better.  Foles seriously has to get hot for that not to happen.

Ifedi needs some time to adapt. When he gets to fire off he is a solid run blocker usually, but he still has RT technique that needs hammered out. I think with a proper offseason his flexibility could be fixed. Just a bad offseason to have to make that adjustment. LG is dead on terrible. I've been clamoring to go after an old vet OT and kick them in, even then at least they have experience and position versatility if our OTs go down. Newhouse, Cordy Glenn, Donald Penn, IDC. Just get a big body in there and let him be in the way and it would be an improvement. Leno is the worst cut blocker I've seen. He's like a seizing seal going at someone's feet. I've been done with him and would jump at the chance to trade him for a 5th.

Mitch's mobility is the only saving grace for him, he made a LOT of would be sacks miss, but he also ran into a lot of wide stunts that otherwise would have left him unaffected. Just a gross decline of who he was when he came out. He was honestly better as a rookie, though his stats didn't show it he was. Nagy's 'development' has been a joke. I don't expect a Foles playoff run because when he did have those runs he has much better talent than we have around him. Luck can come and go, but luck doesn't come around near as often when you're stacking the deck against yourself. That's exactly what we do.

Regardless I appreciate the back and forth and wish the Rams luck. I hoped Nagy would take a few cues from McVay with getting the plays in quick and relaying information, and his desire to add playmakers that can gain YAC especially. Makes the offense way more dangerous when a 10 yard completion being in stride can become a 30+ yarder. Hopefully our next HC is better able to adapt and develop like McVay has.

 

21 hours ago, The_Romen said:

They should've kept him and moved him to ILB over DT.

This is what I've been saying since 2019. He isn't a good EDGE, but he can set an edge, play zone coverage, and for an ILB he would be a plus passrusher. DT has been better than at the beginning of the season but is still playing poorly overall IMO.

[dll2000]

22 hours ago, Ty21 said:

Far too late 

It was a joke my man. 

[dll2000]

On 10/26/2020 at 11:29 PM, MonserinNC said:

I say this all the time.....I know Troy Aikman had HOF OLineman, but whaen can you remember Rodgers just giving up on a season because of an OLine. Or really any HOF quarterback having a garbage year because of the OL?

Rodgers has been best QB in league this year.  Tampa Bay DL kicked OL butt for one game and he looked like hot garbage.

Same has happened to Brady and P. Manning in individual games.  

Maybe not HOFers, but we will never know about many good QBs because they were stuck in a bad situation and blamed for it.

[dll2000]

Floyd was an ILB at Georgia.   He should have been drafted as an ILB in 3rd by whoever.   Drafting him as a converted edge was one of dumbest moves of Pace career.

Some scouts were in love with idea of him converting to outside and media hyped it up.  He went from 2nd rounder to high first on talk and projection and not tape.  

A lot of us were saying it during the draft live on here.  It was an awful pick.  I was pounding table for Bears taking Tunsil, Stanley or Conklin.  I took Conklin in my Forum GM draft for Bears.    Stanley and Conklin were off board IRL, but Tunsil was sitting there.   We didn’t have to give up a 4th.   Another year of a good tackle class and we passed.

2018 I am pounding table for Orlando Brown who plummeting down draft boards because of a bad combine workout.   What a bargain.  He should have been a first round pick.   He never missed a block in college.  I watched like 8 games.  Zero missed blocks.  He had a dad who played forever in league at a high level who people also short changed.  Hello.    Again pass.  Infuriating.  I can go on and on with OTs being passed on in 1st 4 rounds.     

Oh and Baltimore takes a good TE after Orlando Brown.  Unbelievable.   Bears best move would be to pay Ozzie a fortune to come out of retirement and run their team.  

I don’t know about moving Floyd back to ILB given Bears had already spent on Trevathan and Smith and he never got NFL adjustment time at that position.

Don’t get excited about his game against Bears, he still is who he has always been.  Average to below average edge player who sets edge well and provides some length in zone drops.   Quinn is way better or can be if healthy.   Or 2019 Quinn is anyway.   You never know how a guy is going to play just after a contract year.   A lot of times they are traveling and what not and not working out or hungry in that season like they were in the contract year.  

 

[dll2000]

Another rant.   

People here and in media on and on about play calling.  Play calling.  Play calling.   You aren’t seeing forest for trees or however saying goes.

Play calling is not a major issue.  It never is.   

I have called plays in like 9 different seasons for middle school teams.  It isn’t nothing, but it isn’t main thing you worry about.  

They aren’t executing plays.   If you have good precision execution of your play book, the equipment manager can call plays.   The QB can call plays.   The center can call plays.  It doesn’t matter all that much.   It is way overrated.

They either work or they don’t.   There is no annexation of Puerto Rico - okay a trick play can get you a quick score - but bulk of plays are your base plays. 

One sets up other.   Jab, jab, hook.    If you can’t jab or hook, either or, you are screwed.  Plain and simple.   Changing play callers doesn’t change that.

Magic happens in off season and in practice.   John Wooden didn’t even call plays in games.  He said games were his players final exams.  He did everything in practice.

You think Lombardi was all like crap what should we do here?  No, he was going to run power sweep, power sweep, counter and play action.   The cheereleaders could have done same. 

Football is still blocking and tackling, passing and catching.   Who is best at using their allotted practice time to make their machine precision.   Nagy has not been good at that.   He is classic run plays and mild scrimmage with little teaching all practice coach.  

They never win at any level unless they have overwhelming talent.