Frankie2Gunz Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Rich7sena said: Ah, so Jared Goff (47-27) is better than Deshaun Watson. Lol exactly... the point he is trying to make is a flat out joke. I find it amusing though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said: This Forum is mostly centered around the NFL Draft More times than not, the #1 pick is a QB. It is because their the most important player on the field. When you have a difference maker at QB, you're automatically have a better chance to contend year in year out. So I'm curious. Do you use record as a metric only when it suits your narrative? Or do you just change the goalposts whenever you can? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: This Forum is mostly centered around the NFL Draft More times than not, the #1 pick is a QB. It is because their the most important player on the field. When you have a difference maker at QB, you're automatically have a better chance to contend year in year out. How many QB’s drafted 1 overall since the year 2000 have posed good value? Edited January 20, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: Ah, so Jared Goff (47-27) is better than Deshaun Watson. Bro! Exactly bro. Glad we are all on the same page. When you have a guy like Jared Goff, there is no reason to go after Deshaun "Mr. 4-12" Watson. Watson is a bum. Clear as day, just look at his record. Couldn't carry his team to the playoffs. Couldn't even get them 5 wins! Watson, according to this season, is clearly a garbage QB. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, MrOaktown_56 said: So I'm curious. Do you use record as a metric only when it suits your narrative? Or do you just change the goalposts whenever you can? My narrative is about the Raiders winning. Not troting out a QB who has been behind center for more than a half decade. If we can get better at QB what is the issue?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, bucksavage1 said: My narrative is about the Raiders winning. Not troting out a QB who has been behind center for more than a half decade. If we can get better at QB what is the issue?? If your narrative is about the Raiders not winning, I'm puzzled as to why you are immediately pointing at the qb. Do you have some ideas to improve the defense that don't involve trading 4 1sts for Deshaun Watson? No one is saying Watson wouldn't help this team. We're saying it would be a prohibitive cost and you can with without Watson if you fix the underlying roster issues and develop young defensive players. Hail mary trades usually don't work out. Most teams aren't 1 player away, even a qb. The Seahawks had Russell Wilson, mortgaged a boatload of picks for Jamal Adams and still lost in the wildcard because of the underlying issues on the football team. I can point out numerous examples. What's most puzzling is that you refuse to even give Carr 1 speck of credit and instead go for qb winz arguments that no one seems to agree with. Then you pivot to Cutler and Winston and all these unfounded comparisons that I can't seem to understand. I'm lost at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, bucksavage1 said: My narrative is about the Raiders winning. Not troting out a QB who has been behind center for more than a half decade. If we can get better at QB what is the issue?? Every franchise wants the best QB in football to lead their squad. I think you have zero clue how difficult it is to land an improvement over Carr. You clearly think Pat Mahomes or Wilson's just grow on trees and are always available come draft day. That logic is so flawed it's not funny... Look at the history of 1st round disaster QB's since 2010 and tell he how easy it it. Jake Locker... Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, Brandon Weedon.... Flat out trash and the list goes on and on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: My narrative is about the Raiders winning. Not troting out a QB who has been behind center for more than a half decade. If we can get better at QB what is the issue?? Then we must not go after Watson. I get it. We are on the same page. Can't go signing that bum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Every franchise wants the best QB in football to lead their squad. I think you have zero clue how difficult it is to land an improvement over Carr. You clearly think Pat Mahomes or Wilson's just grow on trees and are always available come draft day. That logic is so flawed it's not funny... Look at the history of 1st round disaster QB's since 2010 and tell he how easy it it. Jake Locker... Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, Brandon Weedon.... Flat out trash and the list goes on and on... Trubisky and Wentz aren't looking too good either. Jimmy G with SF. Winston was a backup this season. Marcus Mariota is our backup lol. The list really does go on and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: My narrative is about the Raiders winning. Not troting out a QB who has been behind center for more than a half decade. If we can get better at QB what is the issue?? I think the issue is with your analysis. You're equating Carr's record as the reason to move on from him despite him having his best season and ignoring the fact that he has been on a bad roster for the vast majority of his time as a Raider. And I am not against trading Carr. In fact, I created this thread and voted to trade him. I don't think he's a perfect fit for the offense and the Raiders could get something of value in return for him because 1) he's good and 2) he has a good contract. I think Gruden's offense demands a mobile quarterback and the Raiders could use Carr to get one in the draft. I would give up quite a bit to draft Wilson (I also happen to think Wilson is a special prospect). The jury is still out on Fields and Lance--I am not sold on them being upgrades to Carr in Gruden's offense even though both are more mobile than Carr. As an aside, I think Carr would have brought the Dolphins and the WFT to the playoffs in 2020. I also think he would have been just as good as Brady in Tampa. Tampa is the type of offense Carr thrives in--vertical based passing (plus a glut of talented receivers). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Rich7sena said: I think the issue is with your analysis. You're equating Carr's record as the reason to move on from him despite him having his best season and ignoring the fact that he has been on a bad roster for the vast majority of his time as a Raider. And I am not against trading Carr. In fact, I created this thread and voted to trade him. I don't think he's a perfect fit for the offense and the Raiders could get something of value in return for him because 1) he's good and 2) he has a good contract. I think Gruden's offense demands a mobile quarterback and the Raiders could use Carr to get one in the draft. I would give up quite a bit to draft Wilson (I also happen to think Wilson is a special prospect). The jury is still out on Fields and Lance--I am not sold on them being upgrades to Carr in Gruden's offense even though both are more mobile than Carr. As an aside, I think Carr would have brought the Dolphins and the WFT to the playoffs in 2020. I also think he would have been just as good as Brady in Tampa. Tampa is the type of offense Carr thrives in--vertical based passing (plus a glut of talented receivers). Exactly. I don't even think it's wrong for something to think he's tradeable, but to think he's not even "good" in this league and is more comparable to Jay Cutler/Jameis Winston than to Matt Ryan/Matt Stafford is crazy to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Every franchise wants the best QB in football to lead their squad. I think you have zero clue how difficult it is to land an improvement over Carr. You clearly think Pat Mahomes or Wilson's just grow on trees and are always available come draft day. That logic is so flawed it's not funny... Look at the history of 1st round disaster QB's since 2010 and tell he how easy it it. Jake Locker... Christian Ponder, EJ Manuel, Brandon Weedon.... Flat out trash and the list goes on and on... You have named the absolute worst of the worst QBs who have been drafted.....to fit your narrative Chargers and Chiefs seemingly found generational talents at QB in the last few years Edited January 20, 2021 by bucksavage1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 17 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: You have named the absolute worst of the worst QBs who have been drafted.....to fit your narrative Chargers and Chiefs seemingly found generational talents at QB in the last few years For every 1 Mahomes there are 50 Christian Ponders.... The fact that you're labeling Herbert a generational talent after 14 games is all I really need to know about your understanding about football. Let me guess was RG3 a generational talent after his rookie season too? SMH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Where we are now is the worst place to be in. Middling team, with a middling QB, middling egotistic coach. We will never completely bottom out with Carr as QB, and the absolute upside with Carr as QB is maybe a first round exit every 4 years, imo. I will never forget Carr prancing around all happy in 2018 after we barely beat the Cardinals, causing us to miss out on Nick Bosa/Murray. We have spent years trying to build around Carr. We have consistently been one of the most lopsided teams in terms of how much we allocate to the offense vs the defense and people wonder why our defense has always been so bad. Maybe because we have to coddle and overcompensate around a middling talent QB talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said: For every 1 Mahomes there are 50 Christian Ponders.... The fact that you're labeling Herbert a generational talent after 14 games is all I really need to know about your understanding about football. Let me guess was RG3 a generational talent after his rookie season too? SMH Post this in the General NFL forum and you'll get laugh at for your takes and utterly endless defense of a middle of the road QB who haven't won much at all with us. You wonder why the team is always watching the playoffs at home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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