bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 39 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: again, you said every draft class has 1 or 2 Star QBs then said 1 or 2 franchise qbs now is it, 1 or 2 starting QBs? Cause yes ill agree with you there. I didnt move any goal post. I just posted Derek Carrs draft class, 7-8 years ago actually isnt that long for QBs. the 2015 draft class is even worse. the 2017 class with Mahommes and Watson was pretty incredible. ahh well then if he is not a franchise qb would he not responsible for wins and losses? but youre the one who keeps bringing up his wins and losses? So by that logic, your blaming Carr for our wins and losses, therefore making him a Franchise QB? You're getting off topic. There's star QBs to be found in a draft. To think there isn't is a loser mentality. Carr has been paid like a franchise QB but hasn't performed or won like a franchise QB should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Same reason why qb comebacks victories are an actual tracked stat. But wait for it..... not a team stat..... but strictly a qb stat Same reason indeed. Marketability of the QB position. It's nothing but a selling points for casual fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: You're getting off topic. There's star QBs to be found in a draft. To think there isn't is a loser mentality. Carr has been paid like a franchise QB but hasn't performed or won like a franchise QB should It's because the defense of our franchise for 6 out of 7 years has been straight trash. Obviously the offense had some down years but the defense has stayed bottom 10 for 6 out of the last 7 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Just now, bucksavage1 said: You're getting off topic. There's star QBs to be found in a draft. To think there isn't is a loser mentality. Carr has been paid like a franchise QB but hasn't performed or won like a franchise QB should lol of course there is, never said there wasnt. Just said that there isnt just 1 or 2 in every draft, like you originally said. also, Carr went 12-3 and was an MVP candidate the year before he signed. That year he def performed at a franchise qb level. Shocked you say he didnt, really shows i need to stop engaging with you. lastly, as Ive said 1000 times. Carr at 22mil is a deal, and that is not being paid like a franchise qb. that had Carr as the 11th highest paid QB in 2020. Very fair deal for someone Ive said is a fringe top 10 QB next year Carr will go down to the 16th highest paid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 48 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: This is very obtuse. Do you believe that Deshaun Watson is worse than Carr? Watson is obviously better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: lol of course there is, never said there wasnt. Just said that there isnt just 1 or 2 in every draft, like you originally said. also, Carr went 12-3 and was an MVP candidate the year before he signed. That year he def performed at a franchise qb level. Shocked you say he didnt, really shows i need to stop engaging with you. lastly, as Ive said 1000 times. Carr at 22mil is a deal, and that is not being paid like a franchise qb. that had Carr as the 11th highest paid QB in 2020. Very fair deal for someone Ive said is a fringe top 10 QB next year Carr will go down to the 16th highest paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 (edited) Couldn't find the complete season's rankings. But DC was top 10 at week 15. Ahead of other playoff QBs such as *drum roll please!* 1. Baker Mayfield 2. Russell Wilson 3. Jared Goff 4. Lamar Jackson 5. Ben Roethlisburger 6. Alex Smith (yeah I know he was injured and didn't play an entire season) 7. Mitch Trubisky According to this list. Deshaun Watson was 5th and went 4-12, so take that for what its worth. Also, DC was above Prescott, Kirk Cousins, Kyler Murray, Herbert, Stafford, Bridgewater, Ryan, Tua, Fitz, Burrow, and many more. So yeah. Team sport it is. Edited January 19, 2021 by Jerry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 29 minutes ago, oakdb36 said: Same reason indeed. Marketability of the QB position. It's nothing but a selling points for casual fans. Lol ok got it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Lol ok got it Disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said: You're getting off topic. There's star QBs to be found in a draft. To think there isn't is a loser mentality. Carr has been paid like a franchise QB but hasn't performed or won like a franchise QB should Why don't you go back and look at the history of the draft there's rarely a star QB in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, bucksavage1 said: Watson is obviously better And? That's not the point of contention. You've moved the goalposts 80 times and keep moving them. Watson is great, but all he's saying is that Watson can't carry a team. Why do you think he'll step in and carry this one, especially after we deplete it of 4+ first round picks/ assets? It's like a desperation to move on from this dude, even if it means starting Mariota and just drafting a random qb just because "there's at least one star every year". Especially after a career year where the OFFENSE (not Carr) was 7th in scoring per drive. You don't have to hide your bias. I haven't seen you cite PFF (not that I'm a fan), DVOA, QBR, etc. I haven't seen references to particular aspects of his game or particular throws. I have just seen "QB winz". "results". "he just doesn't get it done". "this is how people are judged". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 https://theathletic.com/2328799/2021/01/19/derek-carr-raiders-season-evaluation/?source=emp_shared_article Good article by Tashan. He's a good dude and interacts with a lot of athletic subscribers. He makes some good points and analyzes Carr throw type by throw type, area by area. He agrees that he can improve (like I do) and talks about how he can start to do that moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: And? That's not the point of contention. You've moved the goalposts 80 times and keep moving them. Watson is great, but all he's saying is that Watson can't carry a team. Why do you think he'll step in and carry this one, especially after we deplete it of 4+ first round picks/ assets? Watson imo would vault the offense into top 5 category. He has the ability to win reps in spots where Carr simply doesn't. Example, the red zone. The asset argument is now 4+ first round picks? I don't know about that. Regardless those draft assets are only as good as your FO's ability to maximize them. It's the overvaluing of draft picks argument. A 10+ year franchise QB is > than a bunch of swings in the draft. More so when you look at this FOs ability to strike out. For me, there is really no argument Watson could elevate this offense with what he can do off structure and the certain it factor he brings to the positon. Carr is great in the structure of Gruden's offense, but still leaves a lot of plays on the table. He simply is not a QB who can maximize the talents around him. Regardless... fruitless argument, because it won't happen. But fans need to realize every season is different. The thinking that if the defense improves this team can get over the hump robs the fact that the offense has issues that could also continue to rear their ugly heads. Such as Carr fading the second half of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Watson imo would vault the offense into top 5 category. He has the ability to win reps in spots where Carr simply doesn't. Example, the red zone. The asset argument is now 4+ first round picks? I don't know about that. Regardless those draft assets are only as good as your FO's ability to maximize them. It's the overvaluing of draft picks argument. A 10+ year franchise QB is > than a bunch of swings in the draft. More so when you look at this FOs ability to strike out. For me, there is really no argument Watson could elevate this offense with what he can do off structure and the certain it factor he brings to the positon. Carr is great in the structure of Gruden's offense, but still leaves a lot of plays on the table. He simply is not a QB who can maximize the talents around him. Regardless... fruitless argument, because it won't happen. But fans need to realize every season is different. The thinking that if the defense improves this team can get over the hump robs the fact that the offense has issues that could also continue to rear their ugly heads. Such as Carr fading the second half of the season. The run game and defense faded just as much if not more. Impossible to keep producing like he did during the first half of the season when the running game just disappears the last 5 weeks of the season and the defense decides its time to hang up their cleats before every game starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Jerry said: The run game and defense faded just as much if not more. Impossible to keep producing like he did during the first half of the season when the running game just disappears the last 5 weeks of the season and the defense decides its time to hang up their cleats before every game starts. The defense had the team in very winnable spots multiple times down the stretch and the offense didn't capitalize. But that is my point... everything has to run on schedule with Carr to be successful. The moment the run game is bottled up and he can't elevate. And once you rattle him even slightly (Atanta) his wheels come completely off. The running game and defense have nothing to do with fumbling every time he's touched. That's a mindset matter with him. He can't make plays off schedule consistently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.