Is this one of Belichick’s best coaching years?

[lancerman]

Right now if any one of their WR's or TE's were released I think it's more likely than not that their NFL career ends. Cam has completely fallen off a cliff and is very likely in the conversation for being a bottom 5 starting QB in the league. The line is decent with Wynn but he's out and we lack depth so he had to play off position once or twice this year when he was here. Really the only reliable skill position player is Harris and he just started coming into his own in the last month and a half. Michel is still spotty, Burkhead was good but he's been banged up. 

On defense Hightower and Chung being out caused really problems. Our defensive front is in real dissaray and lacks leadership. Uche is the only linebacker worth talking about and he is not consistent yet. Winovitch and Guy are decent but young and trying to get consistent as well. We still have a solid secondary but the McCourtey's aged alot in the last off season and are in decline, Gilmore is not at his DPOY level from last year and has been in and out of the lineup. But overall it's the most talented unit on the team. 

Basically every team that plays the Patriots just needs to stack the box when they are on defense and dare a declining Cam to pass to no name WR's. They'll generate decent pressure and force more bad throws into bad coverage than mistakes. When on offense, if you can commit to any run and short pass game you likely will be able to sustain drives, as long as you aren't greedy and don't overly test our secondary the opportunities will come to put up points

We are basically just performing off a solid scheme and making minimal errors. 

Our punt returner is more likely to score at this point than anyone on the team. 

We have 6 wins and I think all 6 of them would have been a struggle for nearly any other coach in this league. 

[Archimedes]

20 minutes ago, DannyB said:

plenty of people have said that he shouldn't get points for coaching and untalented team when he's the reason they are so talent-barren.

This is definitely a fair criticism, although I don’t think they’re really that talent barren on defense. I expected them to be pretty good on that end, and after some early struggles they look to be rounding into form.

The lack of talent on offense is absolutely on him though.

[Archimedes]

2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Cam has completely fallen off a cliff and is very likely in the conversation for being a bottom 5 starting QB in the league.

No he hasn’t. He’s an average qb who can still run very well. Had the bears traded for him instead of Nick Foles they’d likely be on the way to the playoffs right now. The issues are the pass catchers are abysmal.

[lancerman]

10 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said:

No, it doesn't take much of anything to fiddle in the middle in the NFL, given the talent balance. Throw the adjustments away and look at the wide scope. New England's season win over/under was 9.5. That's how the team was viewed preseason, even with Brady gone

Who would get six wins with this team? Reid? Tomlin? Have they ever even coached a team with this many talent issues since they took over as HC? Reid had an 8-8 record with a much more talented roster than this. Same with Tomlin to be honest. Carroll has had some teams in the last 3 years that well overperformed their talent level, but a big part of that was Wilson just compensating for everything and Cam can't do that here.

I really think there's at least 25 coaches in this league that would have struggled to get 2 wins out of this squad. Guys like Lynn and Gase would probably be winless. Maybe the top tier coaches could have gotten something respectable. But Bill is probably the only coach that was capable of having this team even having not being mathematically out at this point. 

Bill is coaching the worst team he's had since he's been here. 

[Apparition]

4 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Who would get six wins with this team? Reid? Tomlin? Have they ever even coached a team with this many talent issues since they took over as HC? Reid had an 8-8 record with a much more talented roster than this. Same with Tomlin to be honest. Carroll has had some teams in the last 3 years that well overperformed their talent level, but a big part of that was Wilson just compensating for everything and Cam can't do that here.

I really think there's at least 25 coaches in this league that would have struggled to get 2 wins out of this squad. Guys like Lynn and Gase would probably be winless. Maybe the top tier coaches could have gotten something respectable. But Bill is probably the only coach that was capable of having this team even having not being mathematically out at this point. 

Bill is coaching the worst team he's had since he's been here. 

It's not even so much the record as the fact that the team is as inexperienced as it is at a lot of key positions, but also has been competitive in almost every game. Four of their losses came down to the final possession. Two of those were against teams that are virtually guaranteed to make the playoffs. They've beaten 4 teams that are very much in the playoff hunt as well.

[lancerman]

3 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

No he hasn’t. He’s an average qb who can still run very well. Had the bears traded for him instead of Nick Foles they’d likely be on the way to the playoffs right now. The issues are the pass catchers are abysmal.

There is a zero percent chance of this. Cam won the last two games throwing for 69 and 84 yards respectively and his backup nearly matched his stats after about 5 pass attempts last Sunday in garbage time.

*This is PFR so if it's wrong you can let me know

Cam is 23rd in yards, 34th in TD passes (and to be real the guys who have as many TD passes as him are Darnold and Dalton who have very little chance of starting next year),  he has 9 INT's which is below the average for starters, but he is one of the lowest starters in attempts so his INT% is 27th in the league. Speaking of efficiency he is the 32nd and LAST ranked in TD% of all QB's that qualify for the stat. He is 28th in passer rating. The only QB's below him on that are Daniel Jones (job is in jeopardy), Carson Wentz (just lost his job), Sam Darnold (is losing his job in the offseason), Drew Lock (is losing his job in the off season). 

His best stat is completion percentage at 66% which has him just below league average at 18th and again that comes with the massive caveat that he is near the bottom of the league in attempts. 

That's just the numbers. Cam's mechanics are quite frankly awful. He's 6'5 but has multiple passes a game that are batted at the line, he often throws low at his receivers feat, as bad as our receivers are he's either not seeing them when they are wide open or outright missing them. He is in no way an average QB. 

He is still solid running but he is having his worst year since he started in yards per attempt (unless you want to count last year when he played two games). 

And here's the thing, pretty much every team the last month or so has just been stacking the box and daring Cam to pass. They are not afraid of that. 

Right now if you took away the name and the past, he would be a guy that we would be discussing as someone who is likely to get moved on from and never be a starter again. 

I'm saying that as someone who has grown to like Cam and really appreciates his effort and leadership qualities. I really wanted him to suceed. But he's not. It doesn't matter how good you can run, no team can win if the passing is that bad. And there's enough evidence to say it's not just him not having weapons. He isn't getting it done even when he has a clean pocket and guys are open. 

 

[Archimedes]

13 minutes ago, lancerman said:

There is a zero percent chance of this. Cam won the last two games throwing for 69 and 84 yards respectively and his backup nearly matched his stats after about 5 pass attempts last Sunday in garbage time.

*This is PFR so if it's wrong you can let me know

Cam is 23rd in yards, 34th in TD passes (and to be real the guys who have as many TD passes as him are Darnold and Dalton who have very little chance of starting next year),  he has 9 INT's which is below the average for starters, but he is one of the lowest starters in attempts so his INT% is 27th in the league. Speaking of efficiency he is the 32nd and LAST ranked in TD% of all QB's that qualify for the stat. He is 28th in passer rating. The only QB's below him on that are Daniel Jones (job is in jeopardy), Carson Wentz (just lost his job), Sam Darnold (is losing his job in the offseason), Drew Lock (is losing his job in the off season). 

His best stat is completion percentage at 66% which has him just below league average at 18th and again that comes with the massive caveat that he is near the bottom of the league in attempts. 

That's just the numbers. Cam's mechanics are quite frankly awful. He's 6'5 but has multiple passes a game that are batted at the line, he often throws low at his receivers feat, as bad as our receivers are he's either not seeing them when they are wide open or outright missing them. He is in no way an average QB. 

He is still solid running but he is having his worst year since he started in yards per attempt (unless you want to count last year when he played two games). 

And here's the thing, pretty much every team the last month or so has just been stacking the box and daring Cam to pass. They are not afraid of that. 

Right now if you took away the name and the past, he would be a guy that we would be discussing as someone who is likely to get moved on from and never be a starter again. 

I'm saying that as someone who has grown to like Cam and really appreciates his effort and leadership qualities. I really wanted him to suceed. But he's not. It doesn't matter how good you can run, no team can win if the passing is that bad. And there's enough evidence to say it's not just him not having weapons. He isn't getting it done even when he has a clean pocket and guys are open. 

 

Well I don’t want to side track the discussion too much into Cam. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him and NEs QB situation next year.

[Apparition]

20 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Well I don’t want to side track the discussion too much into Cam. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with him and NEs QB situation next year.

If Cam continues to struggle as a passer and the Pats fail to make the playoffs, rest assured that there will be a lot of people second-guessing his decision not to switch to Stidham.

[Archimedes]

41 minutes ago, Starless said:

If Cam continues to struggle as a passer and the Pats fail to make the playoffs, rest assured that there will be a lot of people second-guessing his decision not to switch to Stidham.

Dude, Stidham sucks, and so do your receivers. Cam and Bill are a major reason why your offense has basically remained steady, in spite of the receiving corps getting worse (at lest last year y’all had a healthy Edelman).
 

It would give me no greater pleasure than to watch the Patriots spend the season sucking with Stidham and only winning 6 games. Unfortunately for me and fortunately for Patriots fans, Belichick is smart enough to realize Stidham is not a starting caliber NFL qb.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Archimedes said:

Dude, Stidham sucks, and so do your receivers. Cam and Bill are a major reason why your offense has basically remained steady, in spite of the receiving corps getting worse (at lest last year y’all had a healthy Edelman).
 

It would give me no greater pleasure than to watch the Patriots spend the season sucking with Stidham and only winning 6 games. Unfortunately for me and fortunately for Patriots fans, Belichick is smart enough to realize Stidham is not a starting caliber NFL qb.

You're preaching to the choir. But there are a lot of Pats fans who disagree.

[Jlowe22]

Cam’s never been a great passer, give him the worst weapons in the league, and this is what you get.  

[Asciimo]

6 hours ago, Jlowe22 said:

Cam’s never been a great passer, give him the worst weapons in the league, and this is what you get.  

a glorified running back that can pass a few times a game. we basically run a wildcat offense although im pretty sure ricky williams or ronnie brown would put up better passing numbers.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Asciimo said:

a glorified running back that can pass a few times a game. we basically run a wildcat offense although im pretty sure ricky williams or ronnie brown would put up better passing numbers.

This is pathological.

[Asciimo]

1 minute ago, Starless said:

This is pathological.

but you are the one exhibiting signs of Munchausen syndrome.

[RamblinMan99]

On 12/8/2020 at 9:47 AM, RUGmen said:

First off, this is NOT a “Brady vs Bill” thread. I made this to discuss his coaching alone this season. No matter what side of the debate you are on, I think everyone recognizes Bill as one of, if not, the GOAT.

I feel this year may be one of his best HC years ever. 

- 6-6 record with a tough schedule

- Nearly beat defending SB champs with Hoyer at QB 

- Putrid offense all while losing one of the GOAT QBs. Lack of talent on WR.

- Injuries and opts out left and right due to COVID

- The Bills AND the Dolphins both playoff caliber teams. Aside from NYJ, it’s a competitive division for once.

Still at 500 with no remote chance of ever seeing the playoffs, so no, this is not a good season for him. 

Make every excuse you want in the book.  He's still at fault for the way their season ended up.