Defense Discussion [2017]

[Arthur Penske]

On 11/27/2017 at 4:28 PM, HorizontoZenith said:

Clinton-Dix is a 25 (in December) year old safety that has flashed elite ability and people were talking about him becoming a top 3 safety in the league.  He's having a bad year in a year where we've got two new corners, one of which is a rookie.  This Clinton-Dix indeference is getting a little old.  No offense to you, but people need to quit acting like this year is a career projection season.  We've got zero pass rush.  It's a miracle any defensive back looks like anything more than a 5th string JAG.  The only reason Burnett seems so obviously better than Burnett this year is because he's playing about twice as close to the LOS as Clinton-Dix. 

Burnett is, has been and could continue to be great for us, but he's 29 at the end of the year and he's missed 26 games in his career.  Clinton-Dix will be 25 and he's missed 0 games in his career. 

Again, no offense, but this post is very not good.  I have no reason to doubt HaHa couldn't thrive by doing what Burnett has done this year, and I have no reason to doubt Burnett might struggle doing what HaHa has been doing this year. 

Just because someone says something you don't agree with doesn't mean it's "not very good". Ha Ha has not had a good season and that's a pretty objective statement.

[JBURGE]

1 hour ago, ArthurPensky said:

On 11/27/2017 at 5:28 PM, HorizontoZenith said:

Clinton-Dix is a 25 (in December) year old safety that has flashed elite ability and people were talking about him becoming a top 3 safety in the league.  He's having a bad year in a year where we've got two new corners, one of which is a rookie.  This Clinton-Dix indeference is getting a little old.  No offense to you, but people need to quit acting like this year is a career projection season.  We've got zero pass rush.  It's a miracle any defensive back looks like anything more than a 5th string JAG.  The only reason Burnett seems so obviously better than Burnett this year is because he's playing about twice as close to the LOS as Clinton-Dix. 

Burnett is, has been and could continue to be great for us, but he's 29 at the end of the year and he's missed 26 games in his career.  Clinton-Dix will be 25 and he's missed 0 games in his career. 

Again, no offense, but this post is very not good.  I have no reason to doubt HaHa couldn't thrive by doing what Burnett has done this year, and I have no reason to doubt Burnett might struggle doing what HaHa has been doing this year. 

Just because someone says something you don't agree with doesn't mean it's "not very good". Ha Ha has not had a good season and that's a pretty objective statement.

You don't know how things work around here with HZ clearly

[MacReady]

3 hours ago, ArthurPensky said:

Just because someone says something you don't agree with doesn't mean it's "not very good". Ha Ha has not had a good season and that's a pretty objective statement.

Don't misquote me.  Go back and read it again, then read my response the last time somebody pointed it out.  There's a profound difference in tone between saying a post is "not very good" and "very not good."  I made it clear twice I wasn't trying to offend him.  Get over it.  God, you people.  It's like a Lena Dunham convention in here sometimes.  Sneeze wrong and it's the most offensive thing in the world. 

[Arthur Penske]

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Don't misquote me.  Go back and read it again, then read my response the last time somebody pointed it out.  There's a profound difference in tone between saying a post is "not very good" and "very not good."  I made it clear twice I wasn't trying to offend him.  Get over it.  God, you people.  It's like a Lena Dunham convention in here sometimes.  Sneeze wrong and it's the most offensive thing in the world. 

Switching the order of the two words is "profound"? Ok. I don't think anyone is too worked up here, just pointing out you came off as a jack wagon because someone said something you don't agree with.

[Norm]

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Don't misquote me.  Go back and read it again, then read my response the last time somebody pointed it out.  There's a profound difference in tone between saying a post is "not very good" and "very not good."  I made it clear twice I wasn't trying to offend him.  Get over it.  God, you people.  It's like a Lena Dunham convention in here sometimes.  Sneeze wrong and it's the most offensive thing in the world. 

Lena Dunham convention lolol

[JBURGE]

1 hour ago, HorizontoZenith said:

5 hours ago, ArthurPensky said:

Just because someone says something you don't agree with doesn't mean it's "not very good". Ha Ha has not had a good season and that's a pretty objective statement.

Don't misquote me.  Go back and read it again, then read my response the last time somebody pointed it out.  There's a profound difference in tone between saying a post is "not very good" and "very not good."  I made it clear twice I wasn't trying to offend him.  Get over it.  God, you people.  It's like a Lena Dunham convention in here sometimes.  Sneeze wrong and it's the most offensive thing in the world. 

Maybe, just maaaaaybe, these things have something to do with it. 

What do I know though, I'm just an idiot with a keyboard

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, ArthurPensky said:

Switching the order of the two words is "profound"? Ok. I don't think anyone is too worked up here, just pointing out you came off as a jack wagon because someone said something you don't agree with.

Did I hurt your feelings yes or no? 

[MNPackfan32]

So how this defense sits right now:

Completion Percentage - 31st

Yards per attempt - 28th

1st down percentage - 32nd

Passer Rating - 26th

40+ yard plays - 12th (tied)

20+ yard plays - 26th

(So our safeties are doing something right?)

Points Per Game - 19th (Tied)

Also, our redzone defense has been atrocious.

 

Time to make some major changes.

[Norm]

57 minutes ago, MNPackfan32 said:

So how this defense sits right now:

Completion Percentage - 31st

Yards per attempt - 28th

1st down percentage - 32nd

Passer Rating - 26th

40+ yard plays - 12th (tied)

20+ yard plays - 26th

(So our safeties are doing something right?)

Points Per Game - 19th (Tied)

Also, our redzone defense has been atrocious.

 

Time to make some major changes.

Gross.

[MacReady]

Weren't any injury excuses this year.  I think secretly after about the Falcons game, Capers started hoping that like three players would be out for the season so he could blame the loss of those three players on the crappy finish. 

Can't blame lack of pass rush, either.  Brooks, Matthews, Perry, Daniels have all shown pass rush ability in their careers and all have arguably shown all-pro ability at points in their careers.  31 isn't that damn old for Matthews to use age as an excuse. 

It's not like the Steelers have some elite pass rusher.  They get pressure.
It's not like the Patriots have some elite pass rusher.  They get pressure.

It's all on Capers  this year.  There have been like 4 rookie cornerbacks who have looked like 5 year veterans this season alone, so you can't blame King being a rookie. 

When you've got strong performers (Randall, Martinez, Daniels, Burnett, Perry) on a defense that ranks so poorly in those categories, there's only one place you can point. 

[Norm]

50 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Weren't any injury excuses this year.  I think secretly after about the Falcons game, Capers started hoping that like three players would be out for the season so he could blame the loss of those three players on the crappy finish. 

Can't blame lack of pass rush, either.  Brooks, Matthews, Perry, Daniels have all shown pass rush ability in their careers and all have arguably shown all-pro ability at points in their careers.  31 isn't that damn old for Matthews to use age as an excuse. 

It's not like the Steelers have some elite pass rusher.  They get pressure.
It's not like the Patriots have some elite pass rusher.  They get pressure.

It's all on Capers  this year.  There have been like 4 rookie cornerbacks who have looked like 5 year veterans this season alone, so you can't blame King being a rookie. 

When you've got strong performers (Randall, Martinez, Daniels, Burnett, Perry) on a defense that ranks so poorly in those categories, there's only one place you can point. 

You saying tj watt isn't elite?

No wonder everyone hates you!

[SassyFascistAlphaGuy]

I told you Randall would be a savage 

[skibrett15]

11 minutes ago, SassyFascistAlphaGuy said:

I told you Randall would be a savage 

he's running hot, but I don't expect him to be quite this good over the course of his career

[SpeightTheVillain]

7 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Weren't any injury excuses this year.  I think secretly after about the Falcons game, Capers started hoping that like three players would be out for the season so he could blame the loss of those three players on the crappy finish. 

Can't blame lack of pass rush, either.  Brooks, Matthews, Perry, Daniels have all shown pass rush ability in their careers and all have arguably shown all-pro ability at points in their careers.  31 isn't that damn old for Matthews to use age as an excuse. 

It's not like the Steelers have some elite pass rusher.  They get pressure.
It's not like the Patriots have some elite pass rusher.  They get pressure.

It's all on Capers  this year.  There have been like 4 rookie cornerbacks who have looked like 5 year veterans this season alone, so you can't blame King being a rookie. 

When you've got strong performers (Randall, Martinez, Daniels, Burnett, Perry) on a defense that ranks so poorly in those categories, there's only one place you can point. 

I just don't see how the lack of pass rush is on Dom.

There is almost no difference in pass rush technique from scheme to scheme. Sure, there are different attack points, stunts, etc. But the actually technique of beating the man in front of you is basically the same in every scheme. Our line just simply is not winning. Sure most of our pass rushers have shown ability at some point but they simply just haven't this year. Age, injuries, whatever you want to call it, but you can't scheme guys into winning one on ones. 

He has been trying to generate pass rush every game with a variety of different (and sometimes insane) blitzes.

I'm not saying Dom needs to stay or anything, but the problem with the pass rush is clearly personnel. And it most certainly has to do with depth. Clay and Perry are playing far too many snaps.

 

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

I just don't see how the lack of pass rush is on Dom.

There is almost no difference in pass rush technique from scheme to scheme. Sure, there are different attack points, stunts, etc. But the actually technique of beating the man in front of you is basically the same in every scheme. Our line just simply is not winning. Sure most of our pass rushers have shown ability at some point but they simply just haven't this year. Age, injuries, whatever you want to call it, but you can't scheme guys into winning one on ones. 

He has been trying to generate pass rush every game with a variety of different (and sometimes insane) blitzes.

I'm not saying Dom needs to stay or anything, but the problem with the pass rush is clearly personnel. And it most certainly has to do with depth. Clay and Perry are playing far too many snaps.

 

I think it's both personnel and Dom. While our pass rush generally sucks and guys are not winning their 1 on 1s, there are also plenty of times where we do get a rush but before our guy gets there, the QB already has the ball out to a wide open receiver against our coverage. That's likely a mix of a personnel/Dom problem as well.