What to do at QB?

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, bMiller031 said:

Fastest way for Paton to establish job security too, btw.

Agreed. And, just as importantly, I’d assume the new owner (if named prior to the end of February) will want to make a big splash and thus go for one (or both) of Rodgers and Wilson. 

Landing one of them - and getting a real HC and staff - would put this team into contention immediately. 

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

Fastest way for Paton to establish job security too, btw.

 

32 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Agreed. And, just as importantly, I’d assume the new owner (if named prior to the end of February) will want to make a big splash and thus go for one (or both) of Rodgers and Wilson. 

Landing one of them - and getting a real HC and staff - would put this team into contention immediately. 

Plus it ends any talk that Paton should have gone 1.9 with QB (or offered 1.9 for Stafford - another move I backed).    It basically gives him a clean slate for QB.    Given how Spielman went hard after Favre & then Cousins, it would be a major upset if Paton didn't go that route.

If Paton ends up going QB Rd1 in 2021, he opens himself to 2 major criticisms - it's a much weaker top-of-class QB group (at this stage, this becomes readily apparent now) - for all his rookie struggles, it's not hard to say that Fields would be at the top of this year's class (and frankly, same could be said any of the top 4 non-Lawrence Rd1 QB's from 2021).    Secondly, rookie year 1 struggles are the norm - so this basically gives up 2021 and 2022 seasons best chance to move into sustained contention to find the QB solution.  

When you look at MIN's history while Paton was there, and the 2021-22 draft classes, and the unique situation where 2 top 8 QB's are suddenly available in the offseason, I'll say it again - it would be a massive upset if Paton's Plan A wasn't going hard after Russell Wilson (my preference for the present & future) or Aaron Rodgers this offseason.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

 

Plus it ends any talk that Paton should have gone 1.9 with QB (or offered 1.9 for Stafford - another move I backed).    It basically gives him a clean slate for QB.    Given how Spielman went hard after Favre & then Cousins, it would be a major upset if Paton didn't go that route.

If Paton ends up going QB Rd1 in 2021, he opens himself to 2 major criticisms - it's a much weaker top-of-class QB group (at this stage, this becomes readily apparent now) - for all his rookie struggles, it's not hard to say that Fields would be at the top of this year's class (and frankly, same could be said any of the top 4 non-Lawrence Rd1 QB's from 2021).    Secondly, rookie year 1 struggles are the norm - so this basically gives up 2021 and 2022 seasons best chance to move into sustained contention to find the QB solution.  

When you look at MIN's history while Paton was there, and the 2021-22 draft classes, and the unique situation where 2 top 8 QB's are suddenly available in the offseason, I'll say it again - it would be a massive upset if Paton's Plan A wasn't going hard after Russell Wilson (my preference for the present & future) or Aaron Rodgers this offseason.

Agreed. And I still think Paton thought there was a good chance of landing Rodgers this year. That could have affected his choices the draft regarding Fields (/Jones?) and PS2 in the 1st. 

We can only speculate because no one will tell, but things getting out the way they did pre-draft wasn’t just an agent leaking to Schefter to any other rumor monger masquerading as a reporter or “insider” for a national outfit whose goal is Twitter trending and not journalism to boost a clients’ stock and give a “scoop”, says something. 

Aaron is his own dude - as is Russ - I wouldn’t put too much stock into what you read/hear from national people. And that will go in for months. Denver radio is once again all on the QB train for 2022.

[1234567]

13 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Then shouldn't the GM make that known upfront vs pissing away a year? I don't know the logistics, but pairing a new GM with an incumbent HC seems to alway end poorly. Why'd they do that to start with?

I don't think this had anything to do with not drafting a QB. I think they were naive enough to think they could win with a game manager in Teddy behind a strong defense. And felt Lock was "still developing" so no need to bring in another rookie signal caller. 

Possibly, but I think if you're a new GM coming in, it makes sense to at least give your established guys a chance. I'd say he was cautiously optimistic that they could win with a game manager in Teddy and a strong defense. But thinking about it now, I'm not sure how convinced he actually was. I also think that Fangio put ALLLLLL his eggs in that basket in the hopes that he could field a top 5 defense. I don't think this squad would have been that good under normal circumstances; I predicted a top 8-10 D for us this year. And then injuries nuked any chance of that completely out of the water along with Fangio's tenure here. 

[French Fan]

With Seattle at 2w 4L and Wilson injured for at least 3 more games. If we consider that Arizona and LA Rams have a good chance of being in the Playoffs, there are only 2 places left to take.
I don't see how Seattle can hope for a few things this season.
Pete Carroll just turned 70. Won't Seattle change coaches to keep Russell Wilson?
There will only be AR on the market and Pittsburgh is not to be excluded to recruit him with all the good that AR thinks of Tomlin.

Edited October 26, 2021 by French Fan

[thebestever6]

I don't get the Fields Love most sacked qb, can't read defenses, looks lost. I get he's a rookie but he doesn't look like he's gonna be the Ohio state qb that proves they can have successful qbs at the next level.

[Broncofan]

10 hours ago, French Fan said:

With Seattle at 2w 4L and Wilson injured for at least 3 more games. If we consider that Arizona and LA Rams have a good chance of being in the Playoffs, there are only 2 places left to take.
I don't see how Seattle can hope for a few things this season.
Pete Carroll just turned 70. Won't Seattle change coaches to keep Russell Wilson?
There will only be AR on the market and Pittsburgh is not to be excluded to recruit him with all the good that AR thinks of Tomlin.

The problem is 4-fold in SEA:

1.   The team isn't good anymore.   Their D is a bottom 10 pass D, their run D is literally their only solid part.   On O, their OL play has always been masked by Wilson going into Superman mode late in games (when Carroll allowed free rein, much like Dan Reeves did with Elway until Shanahan came to let the shackles off).    If you can take away DK Metcalf, Carroll's philosophy reverts back to ball-control, run-heavy - which is what is ****-ing off Wilson, and rightfully so.   But SEA is a bottom 10 team in terms of actual talent, Wilson's the only reason they stay in games nowadays. 

2.   Their team is top heavy construction-wise, their best players are already making a ton of $, outside of Metcalf, who's about to be paid a ton.     And their 3 best D / OL guys (T Duane Brown, LB Bobby Wagner & S Diggs) are FA's either this year (Brown/Diggs) or 2022 (Wagner).  And they don't have obvious replacements in the wings.

3.   They also traded away their 1st round pick from last year AND the 2022 1st round pick to NYJ for Jamal Adams - who's a total liability in pass coverage.    So they're not even going to get a major rebuilding asset this offseason to offset a lost year.

4.  Finally, and most importantly - their FO is a disaster.   Their 2013 SB run and excellence was fuelled by great drafts in 2010 (Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, Kam Chancellor) & 2011 (Richard Sherman, KJ Wright) & 2012 (Bobby Wagner & of course Russell Wilson).    In the last SIX years - they have 3 drafted players who are impact guys (Lockett, Metcalf & Jarran Reed) - and Reed is gone.   

Bad drafting, an aging team that's flawed, and no draft capital to rebuild - it's why Wilson started to make noise.   He wanted the O to be more aggressive - instead, Carroll's got more stubborn to be D-reliant, and run-heavy to take the pressure off the D with TOP (and yet somehow SEA is almost dead last in TOP).    There's no doubt Carroll's game management is a huge liability - but it's not even in their top 3 in organization-level problems.

It's not just a question of letting Carroll go - Wilson's a virtual lock to leave.   Which of course, is a huge benefit to us.  But if you look at SEA's problems, they go WAY beyond Pete Carroll (he's part of the problem now, for sure - but there is no easy fix in SEA).  SEA's about to go through what we went through in 2016 - just the difference being Wilson's got many productive years left.  He just doesn't want to spend them in SEA, and frankly, no one should blame him. 

 

Next year is going to be a crazy once-a-generation year.   We're going to have at least 2 top 10 QB's be readily available, right after 2 other top 10 QB's change teams this year (Watson, Stafford).  That's literally never happened for 1 season in eons, if ever.    Watson will take 1 of the 2-3 other main competitors.   I said it here and in the QB thread - there is no way I see Paton being anything but full-out, balls-to-the-wall aggressive after either Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers this offseason.  It may not be enough to get either, but I don't think we'll see him hesitate, like we saw with Stafford, or Rd1 QB this year.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Broncofan

[bMiller031]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Next year is going to be a crazy once-a-generation year.   We're going to have at least 2 top 10 QB's be readily available.  That's literally never happened in eons, if ever.    Watson will take 1 of the 2-3 other main competitors.   I said it here and in the QB thread - there is no way I see Paton being anything but full-out, balls-to-the-wall aggressive after either Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers this offseason.  It may not be enough to get either, but I don't think we'll see him hesitate, like we saw with Stafford, or Rd1 QB this year.

Well that’s a scary thought…To go 0/4 on Stafford, Watson, Rodgers, and Wilson would be a f***ing catastrophe.

 

A Cousins/Jimmy G/Matt Ryan-type QB next year would be disgraceful, IMO - especially after passing on Fields and Mac.

[Broncofan]

On 10/26/2021 at 2:06 PM, bMiller031 said:

Well that’s a scary thought…To go 0/4 on Stafford, Watson, Rodgers, and Wilson would be a f***ing catastrophe.

 

A Cousins/Jimmy G/Matt Ryan-type QB next year would be disgraceful, IMO - especially after passing on Fields and Mac.

Reaching for a Rd1 QB when they wouldn't be as highly thought as either Fields / Mac won't be seen in a better light either.   Not unless some guys just turn on the gas and show skills we haven't seen come through yet (which always begs the Q of whether or not it's a mirage), which allows us to get the 3rd/4th guy off the board that we feel good about.

Honestly, when you look at what MIN did in his days there, it would be shocking if Paton didn't put the strongest bid for either A-Rod or Wilson (I'm team Wilson all the way - at 33 next year, at his age and lack of serious long-term injuries, and most importantly, his cannon arm talent <arm talent IMO predicts ability to age gracefully outside of having no prior long-term injury issues beforehand>,  5+ years of peak performance isn't crazy to consider at all).

Edited October 27, 2021 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

9 hours ago, French Fan said:

With Seattle at 2w 4L and Wilson injured for at least 3 more games. If we consider that Arizona and LA Rams have a good chance of being in the Playoffs, there are only 2 places left to take.
I don't see how Seattle can hope for a few things this season.
Pete Carroll just turned 70. Won't Seattle change coaches to keep Russell Wilson?
There will only be AR on the market and Pittsburgh is not to be excluded to recruit him with all the good that AR thinks of Tomlin.

The calendar doe Carroll reads 70 but the man is 45 in human years, lol. He’s not gong anywhere, he has enough cred built up with ownership. They’ll deal Russ if he’s unhappy. 

That said, Russ to the Steelers makes way too much sense. I can see that being a match made in heaven. Rodgers to the Broncos (with a real owner and coaching staff) just on gut instinct also seems to fit. 

[Broncofan]

39 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

The calendar doe Carroll reads 70 but the man is 45 in human years, lol. He’s not gong anywhere, he has enough cred built up with ownership. They’ll deal Russ if he’s unhappy. 

That said, Russ to the Steelers makes way too much sense. I can see that being a match made in heaven. Rodgers to the Broncos (with a real owner and coaching staff) just on gut instinct also seems to fit. 

The X factor with Russ - he has a full no-trade clause.  He gets to pick his team (and so does A-Rod, that was apparently included with this year's settlement to his holdout resolution). 

 

Wilson interestingly had listed 4 teams last year that he'd waive his no-trade clause for last offseason - Chicago, New Orleans, Las Vegas & Dallas.  Obviously Dallas isn't happening, and I strongly suspect as much as Fields as hit the rookie wall (hard lol), that's not likely either.   Vegas & New Orleans would be interested, for sure.  If anything, I could see NO or Vegas as bigger competitors for Wilson - I don't think PIT will be, given Wilson gets to dictate where he goes.   It's unconfirmed, but he leans to staying in the West Coast, or a big market, so he and his wife can continue to build on their off-field celebrity life (no idea why NO was included, though - has to be some personal angle lol).   That may disqualify DEN, but it almost certainly disqualifies PIT (lol sorry Steeler fans).

Edited October 26, 2021 by Broncofan

[paul-mac]

There’s a strong assumption in here that both Rodgers and Wilson will be available.

 

 

I hope they are, but don’t rule out the possibility that one or both will reconcile with their current teams. 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, paul-mac said:

There’s a strong assumption in here that both Rodgers and Wilson will be available.

 

 

I hope they are, but don’t rule out the possibility that one or both will reconcile with their current teams. 

If there's a QB who could change their mind, it's A-Rod.   At least GB is still successful, and is headed the right way.   SEA is a dumpster fire right now, and no 1st next year and their cap/draft mistakes, it would be an outright shocker if Wilson wasn't in a different city next year.   

Still, given the history between A-Rod & the FO, the odds are still very much with A-Rod going Favre mode and finishing his career on a different team.  But if there's 1 of the 2 who stays, it's the one where the team fit/direction still leaves it open.  

Edited October 27, 2021 by Broncofan

[bMiller031]

 

 

[BroncoBruin]

So how would we feel about Russell Wilson + Dan Quinn as HC and likely that Cover 3 scheme on defense?