Brian Daboll is the real deal. Should be a HC Next year. Jags or Bolts best fits

[WizeGuy]

22 hours ago, VanS said:

That's what I call the natural progression of a player.  What Allen had was the foundations of an elite player.  And he showed it from the moment he stepped foot in the NFL.  However, it was in short bursts as a rookie.  A little more consistent last year.  And this year he has been totally on point outside of that short stretch in the season where he played thru a shoulder injury.

I've never denied players get better.  I just think the improvements are small and incremental until a player reaches his peak.  The differences we see in the stats are moreso indicators of changes in the circumstances surrounding the player (i.e. roster improvements).  So yes while Allen did improve, it was more about the pieces around him improving that led to this statistically impressive season.  Give rookie Josh Allen this squad and he has similar numbers and success.  

I think its mainly thd folks that missed on the evaluation of Allen that are seeking to attribute his breakout year this season to some never before seen improvement in mechanics and skill.  Which couldn't be further from the truth.  Josh Allen was this good from the moment he stepped foot in the league.  His improvements year to year are no different than any other player.  He didn't make any monumental leaps.  Ya'll just weren't seeing the greatness he was already displaying because you focused too much on the stats.  

Eek. I've watched every game of this kid's NFL career. He was no where near the player he is today. Even if we conveniently neglect the work he's put in on his mechanics- he's still improved immensely at pre snap reads, pocket awareness, and so many other little mental things. This year there are very little things I've noticed that have gone a long way:

1) He's improved immensely at fooling defenders to open up routes. He usually does this with a slight shoulder jerk at the perfect moment that'll make a defender jump a route or jump out of place leaving a WR open. The game against the 9ers comes to mind when he made Sherman bite on a route leaving Davis wide open for a deep TD in the 4th quarter.

2) Pocket awareness- He's significantly better at sitting in the pocket and making slight movements within the pocket to avoid pressure (Brady is a master at this). I can't tell you how many times in his first two years he'd run out of the pocket too early even if the pressure wasn't there yet. This year? He sticks in the pocket and maneuvers within it delivering a precise pass.

3) Escaping pressure and making a pass rather than running- In his first two years we'd see flashes of Allen escaping the pocket and making a Rodgers like throw, but those moments were much farther and fewer between than we're seeing this year. He was a run first QB in his first year. Last year we'd see it a bit more consistently, but he still had that run first mentality. This year, he's looking to pass first and foremost unless the field is wide open in front of him. 

4) Pre snap reads- boy, has he improved here. If he recognizes a certain coverage he'll alter the play at the line. If he recognizes a blitz he'll do a quick screen. Incredible leaps this year in this regard.

This isn't even taking into account the mechanical adjustments that Palmer was alluding to which has allowed Allen to become one of the most accurate passers this year. So, while you were right that Allen would become a force in this league I think you're being disingenuous when you say he would've been just as good in 2018 if he had the same supporting cast. Also, while I agree Allen will still be a franchise QB if Buffalo does lose Daboll- that doesn't negate the fact that Daboll did an amazing job at developing Allen and putting him in a system that allows him to thrive.   

Edited January 8, 2021 by WizeGuy

[VanS]

4 hours ago, Fureys49ers said:

Your post had little goal other than for you to pat yourself on the back about Josh Allen, yet again, and to post another one of your contrarian views that seeks attention and has little factual basis to it. If Brian Daboll were to leave would indicate little or nothing to the work Josh Allen put in, not even sure where that statement comes from as I think Josh Allen has put in a lot of work and his play this year makes that fairly obvious. I’m not speaking of mechanics, strength and conditioning type of work either but rather about the shoulder pads type of work. The fact that Jordan Palmer and Josh Allen continue to comment, remember now @VanS, they might not be able to look into their own eyes and see what you can, but they are well....themselves and all, and state the importance and influence of Daboll and you ignore their comments is the part that makes little sense. Probably because it doesn’t fall in line with your attention seeking contrarian narrative. You speak of yourself as consistent in regards to your posts as opposed to most, with reference to being better than others yet again, but literally can’t remember the reasonings and excuses you used from a couple pages ago contradicting yourself over and over again. 
 

As pointed out though I’m just feeding into the black hole that is a conversation with yourself and have enabled it long enough. 

You do know I've also said Daboll can prove me wrong by having success elsewhere?

I'm just of the belief we have a special talent in Josh Allen who is making a lot of people in the Bills organization look smarter than they really are.  Time will tell if I am right.  I am open to being wrong. 

I don't know how anything I've said could be contrarian or controversial.  I have an opinion and am open to being wrong. 

[VanS]

8 minutes ago, WizeGuy said:

Eek. I've watched every game of this kid's NFL career. He was no where near the player he is today. Even if we conveniently neglect the work he's put in on his mechanics- he's still improved immensely at pre snap reads, pocket awareness, and so many other little mental things. This year there are very little things I've noticed that have gone a long way:

1) He's improved immensely at fooling defenders to open up routes. He usually does this with a slight shoulder jerk at the perfect moment that'll make a defender jump a route or jump out of place leaving a WR open. The game against the 9ers comes to mind when he made Sherman bite on a route leaving Davis wide open for a deep TD in the 4th quarter.

2) Pocket awareness- He's significantly better at sitting in the pocket and making slight movements within the pocket to avoid pressure (Brady is a master at this). I can't tell you how many times in his first two years he'd run out of the pocket too early even if the pressure wasn't there yet. This year? He sticks in the pocket and maneuvers within it delivering a precise pass.

3) Escaping pressure and making a pass rather than running- In his first two years we'd see flashes of Allen escaping the pocket and making a Rodgers like throw, but those moments were much farther and fewer between than we're seeing this year. He was a run first QB in his first year. Last year we'd see it a bit more consistently, but he still had that run first mentality. This year, he's looking to pass first and foremost unless the field is wide open in front of him. 

4) Pre snap reads- boy, has he improved here. If he recognizes a certain coverage he'll alter the play at the line. If he recognizes a blitz he'll do a quick screen. Incredible leaps this year in this regard.

This isn't even taking into account the mechanical adjustments that Palmer was alluding to which has allowed Allen to become one of the most accurate passers this year. So, while you were right that Allen would become a force in this league I think you're being disingenuous when you say he would've been just as good in 2018 if he had the same supporting cast. Also, while I agree Allen will still be a franchise QB if Buffalo does lose Daboll- that doesn't negate the fact that Daboll did an amazing job at developing Allen and putting him in a system that allows him to thrive.   

Patrick Mahomes best year statistically was his first season as a starter.  Sure he's improved since then as a player, remember he said he only learned to read defenses last off-season, but his numbers haven't improved.  You guys make the mistake of thinking that individual stats are directly correlated to individual talent when they are not.  Stats are largely a by-product of the people around you and the scheme (in addition to your individual talent).

I believe rookie Josh Allen (just like 2nd year Mahomes) was good enough to out up elite numbers because he would have an elite supporting cast.

[VanS]

4 hours ago, Counselor said:

But according to you we should give a QB more time before we write them off

No.  You can write him off at any time (hell most wrote off Dobbs before the draft).  I was simply responding to the argument of why I haven't given up on my own player yet.  If I believe in someone then I will give him as much time as is reasonable to prove himself.  Once that time ends then its obviously time to face the music.  But until then I won't prematurely give up on a player I believe in.  Especially as a 25 year old QB who has yet to start a regular season game.

Edited January 8, 2021 by VanS

[ET80]

54 minutes ago, WizeGuy said:

Eek. I've watched every game of this kid's NFL career. He was no where near the player he is today. Even if we conveniently neglect the work he's put in on his mechanics- he's still improved immensely at pre snap reads, pocket awareness, and so many other little mental things. This year there are very little things I've noticed that have gone a long way:

1) He's improved immensely at fooling defenders to open up routes. He usually does this with a slight shoulder jerk at the perfect moment that'll make a defender jump a route or jump out of place leaving a WR open. The game against the 9ers comes to mind when he made Sherman bite on a route leaving Davis wide open for a deep TD in the 4th quarter.

2) Pocket awareness- He's significantly better at sitting in the pocket and making slight movements within the pocket to avoid pressure (Brady is a master at this). I can't tell you how many times in his first two years he'd run out of the pocket too early even if the pressure wasn't there yet. This year? He sticks in the pocket and maneuvers within it delivering a precise pass.

3) Escaping pressure and making a pass rather than running- In his first two years we'd see flashes of Allen escaping the pocket and making a Rodgers like throw, but those moments were much farther and fewer between than we're seeing this year. He was a run first QB in his first year. Last year we'd see it a bit more consistently, but he still had that run first mentality. This year, he's looking to pass first and foremost unless the field is wide open in front of him. 

4) Pre snap reads- boy, has he improved here. If he recognizes a certain coverage he'll alter the play at the line. If he recognizes a blitz he'll do a quick screen. Incredible leaps this year in this regard.

This isn't even taking into account the mechanical adjustments that Palmer was alluding to which has allowed Allen to become one of the most accurate passers this year. So, while you were right that Allen would become a force in this league I think you're being disingenuous when you say he would've been just as good in 2018 if he had the same supporting cast. Also, while I agree Allen will still be a franchise QB if Buffalo does lose Daboll- that doesn't negate the fact that Daboll did an amazing job at developing Allen and putting him in a system that allows him to thrive.   

This was so good... you earned the Miyagi-Do seal of excellence.

(It's sorta like a wrestling finisher).

[KingOfNewYork]

59 minutes ago, ET80 said:

This was so good... you earned the Miyagi-Do seal of excellence.

(It's sorta like a wrestling finisher).

Illegal kick

[Trentwannabe]

2 hours ago, VanS said:

I'm just of the belief we have a special talent in Josh Allen who is making a lot of people in the Bills organization look smarter than they really are.  Time will tell if I am right.  I am open to being wrong. 

What?!

So the GM, HC and OC who scouted him, interviewed him, worked him out, believed in him and most importantly drafted him, are not actually that smart because Josh Allen is special and playing well....?

Do you even hear yourself?

[VanS]

2 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

What?!

So the GM, HC and OC who scouted him, interviewed him, worked him out, believed in him and most importantly drafted him, are not actually that smart because Josh Allen is special and playing well....?

Do you even hear yourself?

No.  I'm just saying the generational talent of the player is what is most important and it'll be difficult for the Bills to replicate the success I anticipate they will enjoy during the Josh Allen era.

Think of like the Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan.  Yes Jerry Krause and Jerry Reinsdorf deserve credit for building that dynasty.  But they were never able to replicate it because of the unique greatness of Jordan.  Organizations sometimes luck into generational talents that take them to heights they are never able to replicate.  I believe something similar is going on right now with the Bills.  Josh Allen is the once in a lifetime generational talent they found.  

Edited January 8, 2021 by VanS

[Scoundrel]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

No.  You can write him off at any time (hell most wrote off Dobbs before the draft).  I was simply responding to the argument of why I haven't given up on my own player yet.  If I believe in someone then I will give him as much time as is reasonable to prove himself.  Once that time ends then its obviously time to face the music.  But until then I won't prematurely give up on a player I believe in.  Especially as a 25 year old QB who has yet to start a regular season game.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Trentwannabe said:

What?!

So the GM, HC and OC who scouted him, interviewed him, worked him out, believed in him and most importantly drafted him, are not actually that smart because Josh Allen is special and playing well....?

Do you even hear yourself?

[Scoundrel]

[Chiefs_5627]

4 hours ago, VanS said:

I don't know how anything I've said could be contrarian or controversial.  I have an opinion and am open to being wrong. 

I like how you're shooting for the humble victim route now lol, you've called yourself "prophetic" (🤣) and continued to pat yourself on your back repeatedly for "being the only one" on the Allen train when he was a first round pick for a reason. Raw but unlimited potential is what you're "prophetic" about. He wasn't some 6th rounder you hit on.  You argued repeatedly he was the same guy throughout college, nothing to improve on but now you're admitting he did improve his footwork, throwing motion? It was his circumstance, right? Goalpost has been moved so many times I don't know if you know what you've argued at this point.

 

Ps it should tell you all you need to know when you came into this thread puffing your chest about Daboll not being worth a darn to have Bills fans tell you how off base you are and you're  actually arguing with them 😳

Edited January 8, 2021 by Chiefs_5627

[Scoundrel]

14 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

I like how you're shooting for the humble victim route now lol, you've called yourself "prophetic" (🤣) and continued to pat yourself on your back repeatedly for "being the only one" on the Allen train when he was a first round pick for a reason. Raw but unlimited potential is what you're "prophetic" about. He wasn't some 6th rounder you hit on.  You argued repeatedly he was the same guy throughout college, nothing to improve on but now you're admitting he did improve his footwork, throwing motion? It was his circumstance, right? Goalpost has been moved so many times I don't know if you know what you've argued at this point.

 

Ps it should tell you all you need to know when you came into this thread puffing your chest about Daboll not being worth a darn to have Bills fans tell you how off base you are and you're  actually arguing with them 😳

[KingOfNewYork]

Maybe I’m buggin but did he just compare Josh Allen to THEE Michael Jordan? 

[ET80]

51 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

I like how you're shooting for the humble victim route now lol, you've called yourself "prophetic" (🤣) and continued to pat yourself on your back repeatedly for "being the only one" on the Allen train when he was a first round pick for a reason. Raw but unlimited potential is what you're "prophetic" about. He wasn't some 6th rounder you hit on.  You argued repeatedly he was the same guy throughout college, nothing to improve on but now you're admitting he did improve his footwork, throwing motion? It was his circumstance, right? Goalpost has been moved so many times I don't know if you know what you've argued at this point.

 

Ps it should tell you all you need to know when you came into this thread puffing your chest about Daboll not being worth a darn to have Bills fans tell you how off base you are and you're  actually arguing with them 😳