Brian Daboll is the real deal. Should be a HC Next year. Jags or Bolts best fits

[Trentwannabe]

5 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

Two things.

1. You haven’t given any reason why you don’t believe in Daboll as an offensive coordinator outside of “i don’t like him.”

2. Being a good coordinator doesn’t always mean you will be a good head coach. You’re saying if he fails as a HC in another situation that instantly validates you. It doesn’t.

He’ll say anything that credits Allen. Even if it means discrediting someone else for no reason. 

[Fresh Prince]

We should discredit bienemy also for who he has in KC

[ET80]

37 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

Two things.

1. You haven’t given any reason why you don’t believe in Daboll as an offensive coordinator outside of “i don’t like him.”

37 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

2. Being a good coordinator doesn’t always mean you will be a good head coach. You’re saying if he fails as a HC in another situation that instantly validates you. It doesn’t.

[ET80]

33 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

And Allen believing himself off the record has nothing to do with what I said or your false claims. You can give his well earned credit without taking anything away from Daboll.

I like that you ignore everything from my post about Daboll and his scheme the last two years. It was clear to a lot people that it was working but the execution was the issue. 
 

Let’s try this, during the 2020 season the first game between New England and Buffalo, the Pats wanted to limit the Bills passing offense. The Bills had a great game plan. They ran the ball effectively and schemed up big chunk plays on the ground. Now are you really going to credit Allen with this? He didn’t create the scheme. He didn’t call plays. Daboll did. There are several other games like this. Second half against Pittsburgh comes to mind.

[SmittyBacall]

4 hours ago, VanS said:

Not at Alabama or in his first couple of years at Buffalo.  While everyone wants to give him credit for Josh Allen's rise to superstardom this year I will stick to my initial opinion of him.  I anticipated an improvement in Allen's numbers this year based on the improvement in talent around him (i.e. Diggs) as well as his natural progression as a player. 

Except he was excellent last year and you refused to acknowledge it even at the time. All you would do is attribute all of Allen’s 2019 inadequacies (which were obvious, Allen’s come a long way since) to a bad receiving core. Yet, every time I watched, “schlubs” like Beasley were schemed wide open consistently.

The boost to Buffalo’s offense should be attributed to all three - awesome play calling, Allen’s progression, and a personnel upgrade in Diggs. It’s all coming together, much like the Chiefs trifecta of Reid, Mahomes, and Hill/Kelce. The sum is greater than it’s parts. Would Allen and Mahomes still be highly effective on other teams? Yes. Would they be as good as they are now given their situations? I doubt it. Daboll should not be discredited. He was always a good play caller, but being a good play caller only gets you so far without other pieces in play. Daboll took a below average supporting cast and made them punch above their weight class.

I watch the games (not saying you don’t), I acknowledge the play calling, I’ve commented on Daboll’s genius multiple times in game day threads. Plays that schematically go beyond a rocket arm, awesome athleticism, etc. Plays that were drawn up brilliantly and executed to perfection. I’m not going to write that or him off just because Allen is a great quarterback.

4 hours ago, VanS said:

Just as last year everyone was crediting the Bills defense for Buffalo's season while I was not.

And Allen’s substantial progression in 2020 makes this 2019 claim relevant, how exactly? The defense did deserve the recognition it got. White was arguably the leagues best corner. Their secondary in general was great. Guys like Jordan Philips, Matt Milano and Shaq Lawson were all having career years. It was a very good defense that contributed to Buffalo’s season in a major way.

Edited January 7, 2021 by SmittyBacall

[VanS]

3 hours ago, bigbadbuff said:

Two things.

1. You haven’t given any reason why you don’t believe in Daboll as an offensive coordinator outside of “i don’t like him.”

2. Being a good coordinator doesn’t always mean you will be a good head coach. You’re saying if he fails as a HC in another situation that instantly validates you. It doesn’t.

1.  I don't think he's great at scheming players open.  A great offensive mind is someone like Kyle Shanahan who I see has receivers running wide open for multiple plays a game.  Also I have seen multiple runners have success behind multiple QBs in Shanahan's scheme.  With regard to Daboll, I've only seen him have success with Allen.  In both his rookie year and last season, whenever Allen was out I saw the Bill's offense struggle mightily.  Great offensive minds like Sean Payton find ways to keep winning with multiple QBs.

2. True.  However, if the Bills keep being a dominant offense with other coordinators then that will bring Daboll's abilities as a coordinator into question.  And obviously if he goes to another team as a offensive coordinator and fails there, it will put the death nail on the idea he was ever a great coordinator. 

[VanS]

3 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

He’ll say anything that credits Allen. Even if it means discrediting someone else for no reason. 

No.  I felt the same way about Daboll last year when nobody thought much of the Bills offense.  I didn't just start this tune when Allen started getting credit.

[VanS]

3 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

Let’s try this, during the 2020 season the first game between New England and Buffalo, the Pats wanted to limit the Bills passing offense. The Bills had a great game plan. They ran the ball effectively and schemed up big chunk plays on the ground. Now are you really going to credit Allen with this? He didn’t create the scheme. He didn’t call plays. Daboll did. There are several other games like this. Second half against Pittsburgh comes to mind.

Fine.  But to me this is doing your job as a coach.  It isn't being great.  Its like wanting to give credit to a QB for hitting a wide open receiver 40 yards downfield because he physically had to make the throw.  Well if you are a NFL QB you better be able to make that throw.  Well as a coach if your opponent tries to take away the pass, then I would hope you find a way to counter that.

A great coach IMO as I highlighted in an earlier post is one who does more with less.  For example, we've seen Sean Payton in the last 2 seasons lose his starting QB for several games.  The backup QBs came in and the team didn't miss a beat.  That's because Payton is an offensive mastermind who finds ways to scheme multiple players to success.  Same thing with Shanahan.  The 49ers have been successful with multiple QBs and RBs.

Whenever I have watched the Bills offense without Allen (especially in 2018) I have seen total ineptitude.  If Daboll was a great offensive we wouldn't see such a massive dropoff in production everytime Allen is out. 

[soflbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, VanS said:

1.  I don't think he's great at scheming players open.  A great offensive mind is someone like Kyle Shanahan who I see has receivers running wide open for multiple plays a game.  Also I have seen multiple runners have success behind multiple QBs in Shanahan's scheme.  With regard to Daboll, I've only seen him have success with Allen.  In both his rookie year and last season, whenever Allen was out I saw the Bill's offense struggle mightily.  Great offensive minds like Sean Payton find ways to keep winning with multiple QBs.

2. True.  However, if the Bills keep being a dominant offense with other coordinators then that will bring Daboll's abilities as a coordinator into question.  And obviously if he goes to another team as a offensive coordinator and fails there, it will put the death nail on the idea he was ever a great coordinator. 

Did you not see the bills put up 30 points on the Phins with Barkley playing 4 days ago or you just saying what you hear? The #2 defense in take aways all had starters in going in to the last drive. Last year they played the jets both in meaningless games, just trying to kill clock and get out of the game as the backups were facing starters. so to me I am not sure what you are talking about. Are you talking about 2018 when the bills were using UDFA WR, or olineman that were coming off of the practice squad or was it when he had to use guys that literally came out of retirement to play qb, maybe it was Nathan Peterman a 3rd string qb. Your argument is flawed on this as to say offense struggled with out allen is because they had no talent for him to utilize, we can argue that with any coach. I guess Bill Belichick is trash too since Tom Brady is no longer on the team based on your theory of struggling using backups.

[VanS]

2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Except he was excellent last year and you refused to acknowledge it even at the time. All you would do is attribute all of Allen’s 2019 inadequacies (which were obvious, Allen’s come a long way since) to a bad receiving core. Yet, every time I watched, “schlubs” like Beasley were schemed wide open consistently.

The boost to Buffalo’s offense should be attributed to all three - awesome play calling, Allen’s progression, and a personnel upgrade in Diggs. It’s all coming together, much like the Chiefs trifecta of Reid, Mahomes, and Hill/Kelce. The sum is greater than it’s parts. Would Allen and Mahomes still be highly effective on other teams? Yes. Would they be as good as they are now given their situations? I doubt it. Daboll should not be discredited. He was always a good play caller, but being a good play caller only gets you so far without other pieces in play. Daboll took a below average supporting cast and made them punch above their weight class.

I watch the games (not saying you don’t), I acknowledge the play calling, I’ve commented on Daboll’s genius multiple times in game day threads. Plays that schematically go beyond a rocket arm, awesome athleticism, etc. Plays that were drawn up brilliantly and executed to perfection. I’m not going to write that or him off just because Allen is a great quarterback.

And Allen’s substantial progression in 2020 makes this 2019 claim relevant, how exactly? The defense did deserve the recognition it got. White was arguably the leagues best corner. Their secondary in general was great. Guys like Jordan Philips, Matt Milano and Shaq Lawson were all having career years. It was a very good defense that contributed to Buffalo’s season in a major way.

(1) Where was that great Bills defense this year?  14th in Yards Per Game Allowed.  16th in Points Per Game Allowed.  I said last year I didn't think their talent was as good as their numbers suggested.  I thought it was more scheme.  Looks like teams caught up to them which is why they had such a massive fall off this year.  To me they always looked like a middle of the road defense based on their talent.  And the numbers are now backing that up.

(2) With regard to Daboll, I am open to admitting I am wrong if he has success elsewhere without Allen.  Why are ya'll not open to admitting yall are wrong if he flames out going forward and the Bills offense continues to be elite?  I have said time after time that I will let future events inform me as to whether my opinions on players and coaches is right or wrong.  If Daboll and Herbert (for example) have consistent success moving forward I will admit to being wrong on both of them.  I will give Daboll credit as a great offensive mind and Herbert as an elite QB.  You guys on the other hand act like there is nothing that can happen in the future to let us know if we were wrong about a past take.

[VanS]

3 minutes ago, soflbillsfan said:

Did you not see the bills put up 30 points on the Phins with Barkley playing 4 days ago or you just saying what you hear? 

I'm going more on 2018 when Allen was out for a stretch of games in the middle of the season and the team didn't look like it belonged in the NFL.  But when Allen did play they were upsetting teams like the Vikings.  

Obviously one half of football in the final game of a season doesn't say much.  Especially when the game was out of hand by that point. 

[Trentwannabe]

9 minutes ago, VanS said:

Whenever I have watched the Bills offense without Allen (especially in 2018) I have seen total ineptitude.  If Daboll was a great offensive we wouldn't see such a massive dropoff in production everytime Allen is out. 

Matt Barkley vs the Jets in 2018 destroys this terrible theory. 

You're also contradicting yourself. You talk about how Allen didn’t have the WR or talent around him to catch up to his ability until this year.  Well then how is Derek Anderson and Brian Daboll supposed to be even competent with Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes as his WR? It works both ways. 

22 minutes ago, VanS said:

No.  I felt the same way about Daboll last year when nobody thought much of the Bills offense.  I didn't just start this tune when Allen started getting credit.

Except Daboll got HC interest last year too because people who actually watch the film saw what he was capable of doing. 

[soflbillsfan]

10 minutes ago, VanS said:

Fine.  But to me this is doing your job as a coach.  It isn't being great.  Its like wanting to give credit to a QB for hitting a wide open receiver 40 yards downfield because he physically had to make the throw.  Well if you are a NFL QB you better be able to make that throw.  Well as a coach if your opponent tries to take away the pass, then I would hope you find a way to counter that.

A great coach IMO as I highlighted in an earlier post is one who does more with less.  For example, we've seen Sean Payton in the last 2 seasons lose his starting QB for several games.  The backup QBs came in and the team didn't miss a beat.  That's because Payton is an offensive mastermind who finds ways to scheme multiple players to success.  Same thing with Shanahan.  The 49ers have been successful with multiple QBs and RBs.

Whenever I have watched the Bills offense without Allen (especially in 2018) I have seen total ineptitude.  If Daboll was a great offensive we wouldn't see such a massive dropoff in production everytime Allen is out. 

 Say what you want but your theory on Daboll and Herbert have shown you dislike them without actual evidence of proving them being bad. You bring up 2018, yet I can find a random year and point out Sean Payton offense being bad too. Kyle Shanahan having the 21st scoring offense this year and 2018 22nd is good? Bills had no one on offense in 2018 the overall team was a complete rebuild so it has no knock on a coach it had everything to do with cleaning up the previous regimes mess with bloated contracts and nothing to show for it. I just would like one instance where you breakdown Daboll other then picking a few games in 2018 when qbs were coming out of retirement, olineman that are literally on practice sqauds for other teams now, wr who no longer exist in the league or are on p sqauds so yea I think you poaching a few games in 2018 as a knock on being a prospect for hc proves you are just smashing a guy cause you dislike him. Just like you are knocking Herbert having a record breaking rookie year because you watched one oregon game that he played in years ago as your argument for him not being a franchise qb.

[Trentwannabe]

13 minutes ago, VanS said:

1) Where was that great Bills defense this year?  14th in Yards Per Game Allowed.  16th in Points Per Game Allowed.  I said last year I didn't think their talent was as good as their numbers suggested.  I thought it was more scheme.  Looks like teams caught up to them which is why they had such a massive fall off this year.  To me they always looked like a middle of the road defense based on their talent.  And the numbers are now backing that up.

Thank you for showing and admitting to us all you don’t actually watch the games. You’ll be hard pressed to find a defense playing much better than Buffalo has over the last half of the season. 
 

As for numbers being down, injuries and opt outs certainly played a part. And numbers for defenses were down league wide to start the season. 

[ET80]

2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Except he was excellent last year and you refused to acknowledge it even at the time. All you would do is attribute all of Allen’s 2019 inadequacies (which were obvious, Allen’s come a long way since) to a bad receiving core. Yet, every time I watched, “schlubs” like Beasley were schemed wide open consistently.

2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

And Allen’s substantial progression in 2020 makes this 2019 claim relevant, how exactly? The defense did deserve the recognition it got. White was arguably the leagues best corner. Their secondary in general was great. Guys like Jordan Philips, Matt Milano and Shaq Lawson were all having career years. It was a very good defense that contributed to Buffalo’s season in a major way.