Brian Daboll is the real deal. Should be a HC Next year. Jags or Bolts best fits

[ET80]

1 minute ago, Fureys49ers said:

You’re aware that Josh Allen himself in fact says otherwise right? 

[VanS]

2 hours ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

 "Josh Allen didn't improve, his circumstance did" even though everyone and their blind uncle can see he's cleaned up many things in his game. FTR I like Allen and hope he continues on his trajectory but he wasn't some finished product when he came into the league. 

I never said he was a finished product.  Nor have I said he never improved.  All I've said is the improvements he's made were not that drastic.  He simply improved in the same way every young player improves with more experience.  The drastic changes in his numbers are the product of his circumstances changing.  It isn't because he suddenly got that much better (or was that bad to begin with).

The biggest improvement in his game I have always said has been DECISION-MAKING.  Both in college and for most his first two seasons he was a risk taker.  The playoff game being the most famous example.  He's so competitive he sometimes tried to do too much.  I saw it in his college tape as well.  I pointed out how he would regularly pass up wide open check downs to take contested deep shots.  I said this sort of risk taking is fine to a degree.  But at some point you just have to take the check down and live to see another down.  Becoming more risk averse is the biggest improvement I have seen in his game.

Everything else has been marginal improvement.  He always had a strong ACCURATE arm.  Folks just didn't want to see it cause they were too transfixed by the numbers.  And now that the numbers have changed dramatically they now wanna claim he made some incredible improvement to his accuracy rather than simply admitting they were wrong.  

[VanS]

2 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said:

You’re aware that Josh Allen himself in fact says otherwise right? 

What did he say?  That he sucked as a passer in 2018 and 2019 and only became accurate this year?

Obviously as an athlete he will say he's always improving.  My point is he wasn't as bad as his critics said in the past.  And I'm sure he would agree with that.  I'm sure he doesn't believe he only became an accurate passer this year. 

[SmittyBacall]

3 hours ago, VanS said:

(1) Where was that great Bills defense this year?  14th in Yards Per Game Allowed.  16th in Points Per Game Allowed. 

That’s relevant to your assessment of the 2019 Bills defense, how?

3 hours ago, VanS said:

I said last year I didn't think their talent was as good as their numbers suggested.  I thought it was more scheme.  Looks like teams caught up to them which is why they had such a massive fall off this year.  To me they always looked like a middle of the road defense based on their talent.  And the numbers are now backing that up.

How you interpret the 2019 numbers is irrelevant. What matters is the production. Buffalo was 6th in DVOA last year. 

3 hours ago, VanS said:

Why are ya'll not open to admitting yall are wrong if he flames out going forward and the Bills offense continues to be elite?  I have said time after time that I will let future events inform me as to whether my opinions on players and coaches is right or wrong.  If Daboll and Herbert (for example) have consistent success moving forward I will admit to being wrong on both of them.  I will give Daboll credit as a great offensive mind and Herbert as an elite QB.  You guys on the other hand act like there is nothing that can happen in the future to let us know if we were wrong about a past take.

I never said I wouldn’t admit that, but based on what I’ve seen I don’t have reason to believe it would be true. From what I’ve seen he’s a very good coordinator.

And let’s not act like you’re “Mr. I’ll Admit I Was Wrong”. Aren’t you still famously hung up on Josh Dobbs being the next big thing? I don’t ever recall you admitting you were wrong about anything.

[Trentwannabe]

It’s funny. The Bills defense in 2018 and 2019 when playing really well was because of the scheme. Now that it’s average, it’s “proof” their Pro Bowl players are overrated even though it’s the same scheme.
 

But for Allen, 2020 is all because of him and nothing to do with the scheme even though it’s the same scheme from 2018 and 2019 when Allen was missing wide open guys. 
 

The goal post are about ready to fall over with how much they’re moving. Now I remember why the mute was being used. 

[Fureys49ers]

7 minutes ago, VanS said:

What did he say?  That he sucked as a passer in 2018 and 2019 and only became accurate this year?

Obviously as an athlete he will say he's always improving.  My point is he wasn't as bad as his critics said in the past.  And I'm sure he would agree with that.  I'm sure he doesn't believe he only became an accurate passer this year. 

You don’t have a point, you never have outside of trying to act superior haha. You talk yourself in circles, contradicting and stumbling along the way. Read the articles that other people have posted, or take time out of patting yourself on the back in every thread possible and look into it. He gives a lot of credit to others for his progression. 
 

Side note, I might pump the brakes on calling people out for being unwilling/unable to admit when they were wrong but do you. 
 

I will also add, I was big time wrong on Josh Allen. Thought playoffs Josh Allen was what he would be always in the NFL with some glimpses of that physical talent shining through in other games. He’s proved me wrong. In the this case, I love that I’m wrong cause he’s one hell of a player to watch and the Bills franchise deserves. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Fureys49ers

[Xenos]

3 hours ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

This is where he moves the goalpost to "I trust my eyes, "I know what I saw", etc, etc"

Makes sense since he can tell someone’s character by their eyes 😂

[Chiefs_5627]

11 minutes ago, Xenos said:

Makes sense since he can tell someone’s character by their eyes 😂

Yeah that's the problem when the desire to be right supercedes the desire to be correct. 😏

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Fureys49ers said:

You don’t have a point, you never have outside of trying to act superior haha. You talk yourself in circles, contradicting and stumbling along the way. Read the articles that other people have posted, or take time out of patting yourself on the back in every thread possible and look into it. He gives a lot of credit to others for his progression. 

1 hour ago, Fureys49ers said:

Side note, I might pump the brakes on calling people out for being unwilling/unable to admit when they were wrong but do you. 

[Brit Pack]

Personally, I really enjoy VanS takes on here. They make this forum interesting. It's cool to be contrary and have a differing view to the norm.

Guys who are employed in the NFL to ***** talent get it wrong far often then they get it right. That's why no matter how much stats, data, testing or any other metric you use it is hard to predict whether a player succeeds or not. Player evaluation is a very inexact science.  Take PFF grades as an example most of us would look at them with a large pinch of salt.

That's why having a hunch, a belief based on past experience and your own instincts and evaluation leads you to your opinions. Obviously you back your opinion whether that is based on emotion or feelings, you might not be able to quantify it and back it up in a debate and sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. That why I enjoy VanS takes. 

I kind of believe in a very similar approach to player evaluation as VanS, if a player is great it normally jumps off the screen without needing to watch too much more. Have I been right on players that will make it based on such a 'system' sure, have I been wrong, yup. But it is the way I know and trust and most guys in player evaluation in all sports would say the same thing. They have a system that incorporates various factors but ultimately it is based on belief that they know what they see. 

[Fureys49ers]

36 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

Personally, I really enjoy VanS takes on here. They make this forum interesting. It's cool to be contrary and have a differing view to the norm.

Guys who are employed in the NFL to ***** talent get it wrong far often then they get it right. That's why no matter how much stats, data, testing or any other metric you use it is hard to predict whether a player succeeds or not. Player evaluation is a very inexact science.  Take PFF grades as an example most of us would look at them with a large pinch of salt.

That's why having a hunch, a belief based on past experience and your own instincts and evaluation leads you to your opinions. Obviously you back your opinion whether that is based on emotion or feelings, you might not be able to quantify it and back it up in a debate and sometimes you are right and sometimes you are wrong. That why I enjoy VanS takes. 

I kind of believe in a very similar approach to player evaluation as VanS, if a player is great it normally jumps off the screen without needing to watch too much more. Have I been right on players that will make it based on such a 'system' sure, have I been wrong, yup. But it is the way I know and trust and most guys in player evaluation in all sports would say the same thing. They have a system that incorporates various factors but ultimately it is based on belief that they know what they see. 

I fully agree with this, and I don’t think it’s the method that people have a problem with. It’s literally everything else that precedes it and follows it. 

[VanS]

6 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

And let’s not act like you’re “Mr. I’ll Admit I Was Wrong”. Aren’t you still famously hung up on Josh Dobbs being the next big thing? I don’t ever recall you admitting you were wrong about anything.

I've said MULTIPLE TIMES that if he never becomes a star in the NFL I will admit to being wrong.  I just think 25-26 years old is a lil too young to completely write a QB off.  Kurt Warner and Warren Moon didn't start a game until both were 27-28 years old and yet both made it to the Hall of Fame.  All I've said is he still has time.  Once that time ends you won't hear a single excuse from me. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by VanS

[VanS]

6 hours ago, Trentwannabe said:

It’s funny. The Bills defense in 2018 and 2019 when playing really well was because of the scheme. Now that it’s average, it’s “proof” their Pro Bowl players are overrated even though it’s the same scheme.
 

But for Allen, 2020 is all because of him and nothing to do with the scheme even though it’s the same scheme from 2018 and 2019 when Allen was missing wide open guys. 
 

The goal post are about ready to fall over with how much they’re moving. Now I remember why the mute was being used. 

That's why I always say the future will tell us who is right.  If Josh Allen is fugazi then he won't be able to replicate his success this year.  Just as the Bills defense was unable to replicate their elite numbers from 2019.  But if he's the elite talent I believe he is then his numbers from 2020 will become customary.

Greatness is defined by CONSISTENCY.  Not by one or two goods years followed by years of mediocrity.  If the Bills have elite talent on defense then they should rebound nicely next year and keep up that standard going forward until their core players begin to age (like the Seattle Seahawks defense of the early to mid-2010s).

[VanS]

6 hours ago, Fureys49ers said:

Read the articles that other people have posted, or take time out of patting yourself on the back in every thread possible and look into it. He gives a lot of credit to others for his progression. 

As a huge fan of Allen, I've actually watched interviews BEFORE THIS SEASON where he talks about all the off-season work he does with Jordan Palmer to improve his game.  You act like I'm denying this.  He's a hard-worker with a desire to be great.  I expect him to continue to work on his game every off-season.

My contention is with the folks who kept saying before the 2018 draft that accuracy can't be learned but that you either have it or you don't.  Then they spent the next two years telling us how inaccurate Josh Allen was based on citing stats and an errant pass every now and then.  Now that Josh Allen has started to put up elite numbers, this same crew now wants us to believe this turnaround was because Josh Allen worked so hard to improve a trait they used to claim you couldn't improve.

This is what I'm pushing against.  I'm not denying Josh works on his game and has improved.  I'm denying he went from some inaccurate below average QB to an accurate MVP caliber QB overnight because him and Jordan Palmer worked on the same mechanics he's been working on the last 3 years.  No.  Josh Allen didn't make some siesmic improvement in one off-season.  He made the same incremental improvement he's been making since he entered the league.  What happened this year was the talent around him improved and it was this change in his circumstances that allowed the full potential of his abilities to finally get captured by the stat sheet. 

I preached this entire off-season that something like this would happen on the theory that QBs don't go from below average inaccurate passers to leading MVP candidates overnight.  Rather this sort of ascent by Allen should let us know he was a better player in 2019 than the box score captured. 

[Fureys49ers]

On 1/6/2021 at 12:48 PM, VanS said:

Don't worry Bills fans.  You're not losing much with Daboll.  People will see soon enough he benefitted significantly from Josh Allen.  I think whoever the next coordinator will similarly look like a genius because of the guy throwing the football.

The Bills are set for the next 10-15 years because they have a future first ballot Hall of Famer at QB. 

These are your words @VanS

After someone posted an article with quotes from Jordan Palmer stating Daboll’s influence with Josh Allen and denouncing his own, while a humble move it was also unprovoked, you refused to address it and typed as many words as possible so you could dance around the subject. So yes, when I ACT like you are denying it, it is because you flat out are.
 

It’s literally the same thing over and over again, contradiction after contradiction, far too long winded responses that mean very little and obliviously ignoring posts that don’t support your narrative. You’ve derailed this thread enough, after all it’s supposed to be about Daboll and his next stop as a HC. Enough congratulating yourself in between contradictions and tripping over yourself please. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Fureys49ers