Pro Day/ Combine testing times:

[KingOfNewYork]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:52 PM, Ozzy said:

Those are very solid times for him and he looked really fluid in the field drills as well.   Everyone has him dropping into the 2nd but before the season he was without question a top 20 pick.  Is probably better in the slot than he is in the boundary and in the right system could be awesome.

 

 

 

 

Could Zach Wilson make this throw rolling that direction with that kind of arch and velocity, I would say no he could not.  But to some Zach Wilson is this amazing QB and Justin Field sucks?  It does not make any sense.  

Wilson did this same throw and did it better. No one thinks Fields sucks.

Edited April 16, 2021 by KingOfNewYork

[goldfishwars]

Coverage safety

 

[Ozzy]

20 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

My best guess is two-fold. 

1. He did some football in high school down in Florida but chose basketball. He was actually pretty successful at it, all things considered. By successful, I mean he was good enough to get picked up by a school and had some accolades coming in. 

2. He was at Tulane- hardly a football powerhouse. But a damn good school. By all accounts, he's fairly bright and wanted to major in business, so Tulane was a good spot. He was on scholarship and his passion was still basketball, so he was likely just content with where he was at. Then, he transferred next door to Loyola (literally, it's right next door), who doesn't have a football program. He spent the 2018-2019 school year there and was on the roster. 

So, anyway he graduated in 2019 (I remember seeing him at the undergrad graduation while prepping for mine). He declared fo the 2019 NBA draft, it went nowhere, and thus began his first real foray into football. 2020 was a dud, so I'd give him a pass on the extra year. 

The whole "Tulane basketball player" bit is a tad misleading. He was as much an ex-Tulane player as he was an ex-Hawaii player, and the narrative being tossed around takes a year away from him by making it sound like a longer layoff. When you actually know the whole story, you realize he played basketball up til it no longer worked out and where he wound up at the time didn't have football. So he basically just took the latter part of 2019 and Covid 2020 to start his football journey. 

Sure Tulane is not a football powerhouse but it is not awful either, and if he was that bad on Tulane as a basketball player why not try it?  I read he was a Tulane basketball player then looked at his stats there which were an absolute joke.  Of course there are reasons for his delay in making his choice and thanks for sharing your insight in the subject.  I still feel it is pretty nuts how bad he was at basketball and why that was the case being so athletic.  

And then to declare for the NBA draft?  But yeah looking around more I see he averaged what 6 points per game at Loyal but isn't that a much lower level of competition than Tulane, pretty sure it is not D1.  Here are some other TEs in the NFL who played college basketball, yeah nothing great but all D1 and all productive and a few were productive for multiple seasons.

 

Antonio Gates averaged around 16.5 points and 7.8 rebounds and played around 3 years at D1 Kent State/Eastern Mich

Mo Alie Cox averaged around 7.7 points and 4.7 rebounds and played all four years at D1 VCU

Tony Gonzalez averaged around 6.5 points and 4.3 rebounds and played three years at D1 Cal

Ross Travis averaged around 6.3 points and 6.2 rebounds and played all four years at D1 Penn State

Darren Fells averaged around 10.2 points and 6.3 rebounds and played all four years at D1 UC-Irvine

Demetrius Harris averaged around 6.5 points and 4 rebounds and played two years at D1 Milwaukee

 

Reyes was never really productive outside of a much lower level of competition.  Odd but maybe his dream was to play internationally or something who knows.  And you are right after that basketball door shut then he could actually focus on football, I am just saying it should have happened at the college level with him because he was not even really successful at basketball compared to some of these other NFL TEs.  Clearly is more muscular and strong as an athlete and probably never had the skills or overall coordination to play basketball which is pretty damn hard to master at an elite level.

Good for him though will be interesting to see if he can become anything or not.  Going to be hard, Ross Travis is arguably a better athlete, believe he had a 40" vert or something, ran around a 4.6 40, did not have that 30+ reps at 225 power than Reyes has but Travis has barely held on to the NFL, bounced around and still in the league but is pretty hard to make it.  Darren Fells has done great though and obviously Alie Cox is really coming on and Gonzalez is a Hall of Famer as is Gates.  

[Ozzy]

Could not find Tommy Doyle's pro day numbers anywhere, someone found them and here they are.  Pretty damn impressive for a dude 6-8 320!  With numbers like that could sneak into the 2nd round maybe.  

 

 

 

 

Spencer Brown is rated higher on that RAS score but both have a ton of potential obviously.  The height helps them in this score for both, and the numbers might be a little inflated since it was not done at the combine.  Still both very promising OT prospects in the up coming draft no question about it.  Spencer Brown looked awesome at the Senior bowl and would be shocked if he is not a 2nd round pick, Doyle did not get that chance at the senior bowl but still a very promising OT prospect.

 

[Rich7sena]

FYI to all: mockdraftable is updated with 2021 pro day numbers.

[MOSteelers56]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Could not find Tommy Doyle's pro day numbers anywhere, someone found them and here they are.  Pretty damn impressive for a dude 6-8 320!  With numbers like that could sneak into the 2nd round maybe. 

I think this class is too deep for a guy like Doyle to slip into the 2nd. 

[squire12]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Could not find Tommy Doyle's pro day numbers anywhere, someone found them and here they are.  Pretty damn impressive for a dude 6-8 320!  With numbers like that could sneak into the 2nd round maybe.  

 

 

 

 

Spencer Brown is rated higher on that RAS score but both have a ton of potential obviously.  The height helps them in this score for both, and the numbers might be a little inflated since it was not done at the combine.  Still both very promising OT prospects in the up coming draft no question about it.  Spencer Brown looked awesome at the Senior bowl and would be shocked if he is not a 2nd round pick, Doyle did not get that chance at the senior bowl but still a very promising OT prospect.

 

the height becomes a bit of a negative from a leverage/anchor perspective

[Ozzy]

3 hours ago, squire12 said:

the height becomes a bit of a negative from a leverage/anchor perspective

True but has not been a problem for Alejandro Villanueva, Cornelius Lucas was awesome at K-State and he was a UDFA yet has started 16 games over the past two seasons and has done pretty well I think, same reason of too tall I assume is why he was a UDFA.  Not to mention Trenton Brown who has been awesome in the league.  Max Starks was very good back in the day, Jonathan Ogden is a HOF player of course and many others being 6-8+.

Mind you few of those big dudes showed this kind of athletic ability that Brown and Doyle showed, granted a little inflated but still is solid even if you add a higher time some to those results.  

[BigC421/]

On 4/14/2021 at 6:52 PM, Ozzy said:

Those are very solid times for him and he looked really fluid in the field drills as well.   Everyone has him dropping into the 2nd but before the season he was without question a top 20 pick.  Is probably better in the slot than he is in the boundary and in the right system could be awesome.

 

 

 

 

Could Zach Wilson make this throw rolling that direction with that kind of arch and velocity, I would say no he could not.  But to some Zach Wilson is this amazing QB and Justin Field sucks?  It does not make any sense.  

A far more impressive effortless flick of the wrist

Edited April 23, 2021 by BigC421/

[BRANDON26841X]

46 minutes ago, BigC421/ said:

A far more impressive effortless flick of the wrist

[squire12]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

True but has not been a problem for Alejandro Villanueva, Cornelius Lucas was awesome at K-State and he was a UDFA yet has started 16 games over the past two seasons and has done pretty well I think, same reason of too tall I assume is why he was a UDFA.  Not to mention Trenton Brown who has been awesome in the league.  Max Starks was very good back in the day, Jonathan Ogden is a HOF player of course and many others being 6-8+.

Mind you few of those big dudes showed this kind of athletic ability that Brown and Doyle showed, granted a little inflated but still is solid even if you add a higher time some to those results.  

Brown is 380
Ogden was 345
Starks was 345

Villanueva and Lucas are in the same range with HT and WT.

Not saying it can't work, but that added height makes the leverage game a bit tougher.

[Ozzy]

14 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Brown is 380
Ogden was 345
Starks was 345

Villanueva and Lucas are in the same range with HT and WT.

Not saying it can't work, but that added height makes the leverage game a bit tougher.

True but here is a list not including the players already discuss and it does not even include all the guys that are 6-7+, so it is not exactly rare in the NFL to have a 6-8 or 6-7 OT.  But yeah added weight to that massive frame helps but most of the 6-8 guys are 330+, a few are not though but still.

 

Kolton Miller 6-8
Nate Solder 6-8
Charlie Heck 6-8
Taylor Lewan 6-7
Mekhi Becton 6-7
Zach Banner 6-8
Alex Taylor 6-8
Brandon Parker 6-8
Andrus Peat 6-7
Yasir Durant 6-7
Conor McDermott 6-8
Ty Nsekhe 6-8
Matt Peart 6-7
Jordan Mailata 6-8
Rob Havenstein 6-8
Dan Skipper 6-9
Taylor Decker 6-7
Mike McGlinchey 6-8
Andrew Whitworth 6-7
Matt Pryor 6-7
Yosh Nijman 6-7
Brian O'Neill 6-7

 

Sure leverage is an issue but not like there are a ton of 6-4 OTs in the NFL either, that is far more rare than having bigger longer dudes play the position.  Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle are both tall and athletic, should be a win win.

[squire12]

9 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

True but here is a list not including the players already discuss and it does not even include all the guys that are 6-7+, so it is not exactly rare in the NFL to have a 6-8 or 6-7 OT.  But yeah added weight to that massive frame helps but most of the 6-8 guys are 330+, a few are not though but still.

 

Kolton Miller 6-8
Nate Solder 6-8
Charlie Heck 6-8
Taylor Lewan 6-7
Mekhi Becton 6-7
Zach Banner 6-8
Alex Taylor 6-8
Brandon Parker 6-8
Andrus Peat 6-7
Yasir Durant 6-7
Conor McDermott 6-8
Ty Nsekhe 6-8
Matt Peart 6-7
Jordan Mailata 6-8
Rob Havenstein 6-8
Dan Skipper 6-9
Taylor Decker 6-7
Mike McGlinchey 6-8
Andrew Whitworth 6-7
Matt Pryor 6-7
Yosh Nijman 6-7
Brian O'Neill 6-7

 

Sure leverage is an issue but not like there are a ton of 6-4 OTs in the NFL either, that is far more rare than having bigger longer dudes play the position.  Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle are both tall and athletic, should be a win win.

For sure.  No doubt the athleticism is there in movement ability.   The RAS score doesn't weigh in HT to WT (BMI).

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, squire12 said:

For sure.  No doubt the athleticism is there in movement ability.   The RAS score doesn't weigh in HT to WT (BMI).

I am not sure how that mathematically works completely, but I assume the taller OTs if they run well will score higher than a guy two inches shorter than they are and a little less in weight even if they had the same testing numbers?

 

 

 

I have never followed these RAS scores much, twitter sure likes it, but there is a website that has each draft class ranked in terms of their RAS score, here are the top players for 2015 for example.

Link	Kristjan Sokoli	DT	Buffalo	6	214	Seahawks	10.00
Link	Byron Jones	CB	Connecticut	1	27	Cowboys	10.00
Link	Eric Rowe	CB	Utah	2	47	Eagles	9.96
Link	Brian Mihalik	OT	Boston College	7	237	Eagles	9.96
Link	Breshad Perriman	WR	Central Florida	1	26	Ravens	9.95
Link	Marcus Mariota	QB	Oregon	1	2	Titans	9.94
Link	Darryl Roberts	CB	Marshall	7	247	Patriots	9.94
Link	Ali Marpet	OG	Hobart College	2	61	Buccaneers	9.92
Link	Stephone Anthony	LB	Clemson	1	31	Saints	9.91
Link	Brett Hundley	QB	UCLA	5	147	Packers	9.90

 

 

Not exactly great in terms of results, sure a few were ok players but yeah.  

 

Here are the 2004 draft class results.  A class with Eli Manning, Larry Fitzgerald and Sean Taylor.

Link	Robert Gallery	OT	Iowa	1	2	Raiders	10.00
Link	Igor Olshansky	DT	Oregon	2	35	Chargers	10.00
Link	Stuart Schweigert	FS	Purdue	3	67	Raiders	9.95
Link	Joey Thomas	CB	Montana State	3	70	Packers	9.94
Link	D.J. Hackett	WR	Colorado	5	157	Seahawks	9.94
Link	Dontarrious Thomas	LB	Auburn	2	48	Vikings	9.93
Link	Tank Johnson	DT	Washington	2	47	Bears	9.91
Link	Tim Anderson	DT	Ohio State	3	74	Bills	9.88
Link	Travis LaBoy	DE	Hawaii	2	42	Titans	9.87

 

 

So maybe this RAS score is just a bunch of crap who knows.

[MOSteelers56]

Maaaan, I really liked Igor Olshansky. What a name. He was a prototype sized 3-4 DE. I had him in one of my Madden seasons when I was a kid and he was a beast because I played on medium difficulty.