Raiders trade C Rodney Hudson + 7th to Arizona for 3rd round pick

[oakdb36]

4 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I do not know how we saved $9.9 million cash.  The dead money is usually guarantees that have already been paid.  So he was already paid to play this year minus the $3.5 million he agreed to release. 

His base salary + workout bonus was 9.9M (with 3.5M of it guaranteed but reportedly voided). The dead money is what was left to account of the signing bonus proration.

[reddevil]

7 minutes ago, Roninho said:

Yeah, our team got worse by getting rid of Hudson and Jackson. Which was not necessary since we have the cap to keep them. I mean that's why we wanted to bring Brown back into TC because we could afford to. And with how cautious we have been in FA we didnt need that cap to begin with.

So yeah, these moves make us a worse team right now.

I must say i'm optimistic that we can find a couple of decent startes for the o-line before the start of the season. Not Hudson quality, but decent starters for a decent cap hit. Again, the unit will be less then it was, but i don't see us starting all of the guys we currently have.

It’s bigger than that though. This is not the business of just getting rid of older employees to bring in cheaper ones so it can remain cost neutral. The only thing in this business that matters is winning. And you don’t win by having no semblance of a plan for how to improve on a serial losing team and working piece by piece rather than looking at the whole.

Hell, it might be worse than not having a plan. It might be that they had a plan and completely f’ed up executing it. Again, in isolation the Brown, Ritchie, Jackson and Good moves might appear reasonable, even sensible individually. But they couldn’t do it properly and as a consequence (at least it appears this way), they upset Hudson and perhaps put themselves in a position where they felt they had no choice but to release him when he requested it. 

it’s almost like they went in a direction to reduce the cost of the oline and then things snowballed out of control.

Terrible management

[oakdb36]

1 hour ago, Roninho said:

So after a decade in the league Hudson finally realizes this is a business? I'm not buying that. Guys get cut the day for the SB so nah.

Sure i can see him being frustrated, but not because we want to have guys take pay cuts. 

Yeah, some of those points are hard to believe.

I'd say it's probably a good business decision for Hudson though. Linsley just earned 26M in cash over the next 2 years while Hudson was scheduled to make around 20M for the same period and to become a FA at 34 years old. If there's an opportunity to cash big one last time, it's now. So maybe he knows about business.

Edited March 17, 2021 by oakdb36

[Dessie]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

To paraphrase it for non-subscribers: 

• Hudson was frustrated because the team only has 1 winning season in his 6 years here and how we've treated the rest of our offensive line who are a tight group. 

•. We were planning to hold Trent Brown until training camp and essentially force him to restructure so we wouldn't have to pay him $14M but his camp was pissed and the Patriots offered a pick so we moved on before it got messy.

• We didn't want to pay Richie $5M so we cut him because at 38 and coming off a major lower body injury we didn't think there would be much of a market for him so he'd be forced to resign with us for less or retire. 

• We haven't cut Gabe Jackson yet and we're asking him to restructure down to around $6M APY. And we're apparently planning to hold him until other teams run out of money so he won't have much of a choice despite his agent making it clear they want him to be cut ASAP. 

• We gave Denzelle Good a super low ball offer and that didn't sit well with the rest of our OL because of how well he played last season across the line for $2M. 

This doesnt surprise me tbh especially when you think that we paid Jordy Nelsons 2nd season salary early as an incentive to stay.
 

All of that OL will have played through injury etc so promises may have been made to them. Seeing Good get lowballed and the treatment of Gabe etc I can see Hudson’s frustration and fits the timeline tbh. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Roninho said:

Probably just 1 winning season in 6 years does that.  Plus every year drama with goid players (mack, coop, ab, brown, now gabe ).

Add in an oline rebuild (gabe cut or pay cut, richie old/cut, trent gone, good checking fa). 

And i can see people get annoyed by Grudens personality, especially when you are 19-29 or something like that. 

So i would suspect it being the result of a long process.

Oh I completely agree. It reeks of dysfunction, but some people apparently remain in denial of it. 

[Rolni]

Mark Davis should cut Gruden after this year no matter what.

 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, reddevil said:

It’s bigger than that though. This is not the business of just getting rid of older employees to bring in cheaper ones so it can remain cost neutral. The only thing in this business that matters is winning. And you don’t win by having no semblance of a plan for how to improve on a serial losing team and working piece by piece rather than looking at the whole.

Hell, it might be worse than not having a plan. It might be that they had a plan and completely f’ed up executing it. Again, in isolation the Brown, Ritchie, Jackson and Good moves might appear reasonable, even sensible individually. But they couldn’t do it properly and as a consequence (at least it appears this way), they upset Hudson and perhaps put themselves in a position where they felt they had no choice but to release him when he requested it. 

it’s almost like they went in a direction to reduce the cost of the oline and then things snowballed out of control.

Terrible management

Yes! For the longest time we've listened to people explain how cutting this good player or that good player would benefit us with cap space and newer, younger guys in the future. 

Well, the future has arrived and yet again we're totally rebuilding. 

Common denominator? We don't keep good players and waste cap space on bad signings nobody asked for. 

Getting rid of Mack got us....worse defense. 

Getting rid of Crabtree and then Cooper got us....worse WRs until last year (sort of). 

Getting rid of Joseph got us....Erik Harris and Leavitt. 

Getting rid of Jackson (I can't see him happily returning), Incognito, Hudson, and Brown gets us...hoping we don't f up and lose Good too, giving us Miller-?-?-?-? and praying Kyle Long has anything left in the tank and actually signs with us? 

Aside from Jacobs and lucking into Waller, we've not appreciably improved this offense at all. We now have virtually no OL and a bunch of unproven "potential" at WR. That's called a complete rebuild, and we "naysayers" were told in no uncertain terms for the last few years that that would not be the case and by now we'd be a contender. We're now squarely the 4th best offense in the division. 

Aside from Mullen and the occasional spark from Crosby, we've not appreciably improved this defense at all. We still have no IDL and pass rush. We werw terrible in run D. Ferrell is a JAG and borderline bust. He has moments, but he's not an impact guy. 2 CB spots are questionable. Arnette was underwhelming and we've talked about him playing the slot. Our first round pick, gentlemen, a Slot corner. LB is ok I guess, but that's contingent on Littleton panning out. Kwit is a nice piece, but not a star. Morrow is....unexciting. Depth is pathetic though. And we have no functional S's. We have a gaping, infected hole at FS, and Abram is such a liability at SS that we're openly hoping he functions more like a LB and doesn't rack up penalties and take out our own guys like he's Taylor Mays. 

Oh, wait, we signed Yannick to come with his 8-9 sacks/year on defenses with far more talent than we have, so all is saved. What, he gonna replace Crosby who gets as many sacks? Is there any guarantee he actually plays more effective than Crosby? Crosby has averaged as many sacks without the benefit of: Dante Fowler, Maleik Jackson, Tyson Alualu, Telvin Smith, Myles Jack, Paul Posluzny, Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus, AJ Bouye, Tashaun Gipson, Josh Allen, Jalen Ramsey Eric Kendrucks, Harrison Smith,  Pat Queen, Marcus Peters...etc. etc. I mean, don't get me wrong, I want him to come crush it, but he's had the benefit of playing with some great supporting casts, which we don't have by any stretch of the imagination. I appreciate his potential, but until he plays for us, it's just potential. And with the rotten Swiss cheese we've got around him right now (and not enough draft picks or quality FA's available to adequately address the needs of both defense and now offense), I'm skeptical of the true impact. 

We went from talking about JJ3, Marcus Maye, and Justin Simmons, etc. to hoping for Tre "Can't stick on a team for long" Boston and (though I've always liked him) and Riichard "Never played FS" Sherman types real quick. And I get that the best guys were snapped up quick or not allowed to hit the market, but it just highlights the delusional nature of some of the perpetually hopeful fanbase. Aside from Yannick and 2 guys who didn't play last year (Haha Clinton-Dix and Kyle Long), who have we seriously been linked to? It's not like this FA class was so devoid of talent that we shouldn't have attracted someone. 

You're absolutely correct. We have no plan. We're flailing in the wind and hoping (again) that marginal talent leads to improvement nex year and beyond (as usual). 

[Dessie]

8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yes! For the longest time we've listened to people explain how cutting this good player or that good player would benefit us with cap space and newer, younger guys in the future. 

Well, the future has arrived and yet again we're totally rebuilding. 

Common denominator? We don't keep good players and waste cap space on bad signings nobody asked for. 

Getting rid of Mack got us....worse defense. 

Getting rid of Crabtree and then Cooper got us....worse WRs until last year (sort of). 

Getting rid of Joseph got us....Erik Harris and Leavitt. 

Getting rid of Jackson (I can't see him happily returning), Incognito, Hudson, and Brown gets us...hoping we don't f up and lose Good too, giving us Miller-?-?-?-? and praying Kyle Long has anything left in the tank and actually signs with us? 

Aside from Jacobs and lucking into Waller, we've not appreciably improved this offense at all. We now have virtually no OL and a bunch of unproven "potential" at WR. That's called a complete rebuild, and we "naysayers" were told in no uncertain terms for the last few years that that would not be the case and by now we'd be a contender. We're now squarely the 4th best offense in the division. 

Aside from Mullen and the occasional spark from Crosby, we've not appreciably improved this defense at all. We still have no IDL and pass rush. We werw terrible in run D. Ferrell is a JAG and borderline bust. He has moments, but he's not an impact guy. 2 CB spots are questionable. Arnette was underwhelming and we've talked about him playing the slot. Our first round pick, gentlemen, a Slot corner. LB is ok I guess, but that's contingent on Littleton panning out. Kwit is a nice piece, but not a star. Morrow is....unexciting. Depth is pathetic though. And we have no functional S's. We have a gaping, infected hole at FS, and Abram is such a liability at SS that we're openly hoping he functions more like a LB and doesn't rack up penalties and take out our own guys like he's Taylor Mays. 

Oh, wait, we signed Yannick to come with his 8-9 sacks/year on defenses with far more talent than we have, so all is saved. What, he gonna replace Crosby who gets as many sacks? Is there any guarantee he actually plays more effective than Crosby? Crosby has averaged as many sacks without the benefit of: Dante Fowler, Maleik Jackson, Tyson Alualu, Telvin Smith, Myles Jack, Paul Posluzny, Calais Campbell, Marcell Dareus, AJ Bouye, Tashaun Gipson, Josh Allen, Jalen Ramsey Eric Kendrucks, Harrison Smith,  Pat Queen, Marcus Peters...etc. etc. I mean, don't get me wrong, I want him to come crush it, but he's had the benefit of playing with some great supporting casts, which we don't have by any stretch of the imagination. I appreciate his potential, but until he plays for us, it's just potential. And with the rotten Swiss cheese we've got around him right now (and not enough draft picks or quality FA's available to adequately address the needs of both defense and now offense), I'm skeptical of the true impact. 

We went from talking about JJ3, Marcus Maye, and Justin Simmons, etc. to hoping for Tre "Can't stick on a team for long" Boston and (though I've always liked him) and Riichard "Never played FS" Sherman types real quick. And I get that the best guys were snapped up quick or not allowed to hit the market, but it just highlights the delusional nature of some of the perpetually hopeful fanbase. Aside from Yannick and 2 guys who didn't play last year (Haha Clinton-Dix and Kyle Long), who have we seriously been linked to? It's not like this FA class was so devoid of talent that we shouldn't have attracted someone. 

You're absolutely correct. We have no plan. We're flailing in the wind and hoping (again) that marginal talent leads to improvement nex year and beyond (as usual). 

This is the biggest worry for me, where is the semblance of a plan? Good, Long, Richie all low balled ? Not releasing Gabe but allowing Hudson his release? 

Plenty of time yet but we look a dysfunctional franchise atm. 

[Bitty 2.0]

1 hour ago, Dessie said:

This doesnt surprise me tbh especially when you think that we paid Jordy Nelsons 2nd season salary early as an incentive to stay.
 

All of that OL will have played through injury etc so promises may have been made to them. Seeing Good get lowballed and the treatment of Gabe etc I can see Hudson’s frustration and fits the timeline tbh. 

Who cares what they think they're replaceable parts in the system. KC just cut it's 2 super bowl winning tackles do you hear everybody cry? 

You do realize that the Raiders O-line will cost about

50% less this year.

[Dessie]

1 hour ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Who cares what they think they're replaceable parts in the system. KC just cut it's 2 super bowl winning tackles do you hear everybody cry? 

You do realize that the Raiders O-line will cost about

50% less this year.

KC were definitely crying after they lost the SB without their 2 tackles. Don’t understand the point you are trying to make tbh. 

Everybody is a replaceable part we all know that but losing 4/5ths of your offensive line when the offense was the highlight of the team last year is not a good look whichever way you want to paint it. 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

Who cares what they think they're replaceable parts in the system. KC just cut it's 2 super bowl winning tackles do you hear everybody cry? 

You do realize that the Raiders O-line will cost about

50% less this year.

When we win a Superbowl, that comparison will have some value. 

We haven't. We've barely managed to break 50% on a season's win total. That's the only 50% I care about hearing. 50% of cost is just the same misguided optimism that people here have been preaching ad nauseam for years. 

What, we gonna use that new cap space to sign some better players this year? Gonna go hard in FA next year? Let me guess, we'll be contenders in 2024 or 2025, am I right? Just gotta wait and see the magic get worked? Where have we heard that before....

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by ronjon1990

[Chwf3rd25]

6 hours ago, ragingraider said:

Just for perspective Kolton makes a little over 3 million and good a little over 2 million. Obviously Kolton is gonna get a raise once he is off his rookie deal, but maybe drafting olinemen and keeping their cost down on rookie deals while paying proven skills guys and high impact players is the better way to go. It is far harder to draft good CB's than good G or Centers and you can generally get elite talent in the mid rounds at those positions.

Kind of weird that we're suddenly hyper aware of positional value after spending 1st round picks on a RB and in-the-box SS.

[big_palooka]

Look... is anyone surprised by any of this? It's Gruden. It's who he is and we all tried to convince ourselves he'd have learned from flaming out in Tampa. That he had a decade to watch and learn from some of the best in the business from his media gig. 

Reality sat in year 1 with his treatment of Mack. Gruden is unpredictable, impatient and has no real vision for team building. He does crazy crap like this that leads to more crazy stuff. 

This will be it for him. He's already dug a hole to start the 2021 season that even the most optimistic Raider fans would have trouble finding light in (they will still try). 

There is simply no path here to adequately rebuild this roster into a playoff team this year in the AFC, none. Odds are looking better for a 5-6 win season with the offense sliding backwards.

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, Dessie said:

KC were definitely crying after they lost the SB without their 2 tackles. Don’t understand the point you are trying to make tbh. 

Everybody is a replaceable part we all know that but losing 4/5ths of your offensive line when the offense was the highlight of the team last year is not a good look whichever way you want to paint it. 

Cable was juggling the O- line all year, trust the man

[Bitty 2.0]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

When we win a Superbowl, that comparison will have some value. 

We haven't. We've barely managed to break 50% on a season's win total. That's the only 50% I care about hearing. 50% of cost is just the same misguided optimism that people here have been preaching ad nauseam for years. 

What, we gonna use that new cap space to sign some better players this year? Gonna go hard in FA next year? Let me guess, we'll be contenders in 2024 or 2025, am I right? Just gotta wait and see the magic get worked? Where have we heard that before....

 

That's exactly the point if we lose with you we can lose without you. They're trying to improve the team.