The Car Thread

[bigbadbuff]

5 hours ago, Tugboat said:

These "lane assist" features absolutely do not work.  Maybe it's because i'm not in a major metropolis, but even when i've driven with them there...it's just an occasional onslaught of annoying distracting blinky lights despite being firmly within a lane.  They're busted as heck, and some of them are even downright detrimental to good highway driving in that they promote overly active steering inputs.

 

If you're worried about people using their phones while they drive, maybe the solution is to outlaw people using their phones while they operate a motor vehicle, and make gigantic distracting infotainment screens and extensive tech integration illegal.  ie.  Target the source of the problem, rather than making everyone suffer because some *******s can't drive properly, and can't put their phone down for a second to operate a motor vehicle responsibly.

 

I will contemplate building car bombs with lane keep assist if this ever becomes law tbh.

 

It's just so entirely not necessary.  If you actually just drive the car...you don't need a "lane keep assist".  If you cannot keep your car in a lane, you absolutely 100% should not have a license to drive vehicles.  It's when you're futzing around with your phone, or futzing around with your phone through Apple CarPlay or similar, where you'd actually be distracted enough to meander out of your lane.  None of that is remotely necessary.  None of that **** should exist, or ever should've been allowed to be included in an automobile.  Cars are a piece of machinery.  Not a weird capsule to transport you to somewhere while you hurtle down the road at 70mph checking instagram or whatever.

A lot of lane assist features now don’t even flash lights at you or make any noise, instead the straighten the steering wheel when and only when you drift out of the lane. It automatically turns off when you have your blinker on as well so it’s never fighting you unless you truly are out of your lane.

[ET80]

5 hours ago, Tugboat said:

If you're worried about people using their phones while they drive, maybe the solution is to outlaw people using their phones while they operate a motor vehicle

It is outlawed in Texas. Doesn't really stop people from doing it, does it?

5 hours ago, Tugboat said:

make gigantic distracting infotainment screens and extensive tech integration illegal

But I use my infotainment tech a lot, in a very responsible way - never while driving, using the presets on my steering wheel when at a stop, etc. I don't know how I managed without some of these things before (well, actually I do - I fiddled with my phone while driving. Now... I don't do that anymore, which is good... Because it's illegal here now). 

You're really proposing some draconian measures, all because you don't like lane assist functions? I mean... You know you can turn them off, right? Nobody is forcing anyone to use those things, and if others use them, it's only to your benefit, with you being none the wiser of its usage...

Right? Am I missing something here?

[Tugboat]

On 11/12/2020 at 5:36 AM, bigbadbuff said:

A lot of lane assist features now don’t even flash lights at you or make any noise, instead the straighten the steering wheel when and only when you drift out of the lane. It automatically turns off when you have your blinker on as well so it’s never fighting you unless you truly are out of your lane.

That's my point though.  The lane assist here, is wildly inaccurate, and frankly...leads to the idea of the notification is that *nobody* should be using their telephones while driving.

 

On 11/12/2020 at 6:00 AM, ET80 said:

It is outlawed in Texas. Doesn't really stop people from doing it, does it?

But I use my infotainment tech a lot, in a very responsible way - never while driving, using the presets on my steering wheel when at a stop, etc. I don't know how I managed without some of these things before (well, actually I do - I fiddled with my phone while driving. Now... I don't do that anymore, which is good... Because it's illegal here now). 

You're really proposing some draconian measures, all because you don't like lane assist functions? I mean... You know you can turn them off, right? Nobody is forcing anyone to use those things, and if others use them, it's only to your benefit, with you being none the wiser of its usage...

Right? Am I missing something here?

 

I don't understand how you can say you use your "infotainment" in a "responsible" way, while admitting that you previously used your phone to fiddle around while driving.

 

I do not think it is Draconian, to demand that people **DO NOT** use cellular telephones in their automobiles, while they drive them.  It's not Draconian to suggest that cars should just be cars.  Not entertainment lounges.

 

I do not believe it's  Draconianian to suggest that cars should just be motor vehicles, and not mobile technological showcases lounges.  

 

 

 

But at the very least, just stop checking your mobile phone all the time while driving probably.  It's not ******* diffucult.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

I don't understand how you can say you use your "infotainment" in a "responsible" way, while admitting that you previously used your phone to fiddle around while driving

It's simple, actually.

When I had no infotainment system, I would fiddle with my phone, taking a hand off the wheel and my eyes off the road. Now that I have one, I keep my eyes on the road, hands on the steering wheel and use steering wheel mounted controls to manage the same thing. 

I don't know how I can explain it any easier than that. Is this clearer?

1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

I do not believe it's  Draconianian to suggest that cars should just be motor vehicles, and not mobile technological showcases lounges.  

So, by this principle - do you prefer houses that are four walls and a roof with heating/cooling and running water? No Ring doorbells, no smart TVs, no Nest thermostat?

There's a market for this technology. A significant market at that, the Internet of Things (IOT) is probably the next great evolution of... well, life as we know it. You have fridges that can tell you when you're running out of staple items, you have doorbells that can tag packages and let you know when you get a delivery, you have a bevy of products at home that use tech to learn and adapt to your specific needs. Why wouldn't you want that in your car?

How easy would it be if your car knew you were due for an oil change, and then reserved a bay for you at a Jiffy Lube and paid for the transaction as soon as the hood was closed? How about a car that could diagnose a small leak in a tire, check out multiple tire locations for your specific tires on your commute, cross reference best prices and schedule your appointment - even before you rolled out of your driveway?

1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

I do not think it is Draconian, to demand that people **DO NOT** use cellular telephones in their automobiles, while they drive them.  

That's less Draconian... more redundant. The law already demands people don't use phones, but is that really causing a dent in phone usage?

So, what's the next step?

[Tugboat]

17 hours ago, ET80 said:

It's simple, actually.

When I had no infotainment system, I would fiddle with my phone, taking a hand off the wheel and my eyes off the road. Now that I have one, I keep my eyes on the road, hands on the steering wheel and use steering wheel mounted controls to manage the same thing. 

I don't know how I can explain it any easier than that. Is this clearer?

It's still a distraction though.  You started by breaking the law because you couldn't ignore your phone for a little while, then you sought out a device to help you continue to be distracted while you operate a motor vehicle...legally?  Neither of those is good imo.

 

Driving is fundamentally, operating a piece of heavy machinery (and getting bigger and heavier all the time).  When you operate equipment (especially stuff that can easily kill people if used incorrectly like an automobile), you pay attention to equipment.  You don't chat with your buddy about that sportsball game last night via text, or ask Siri to bring up the latest weather forecast, or scroll through pages of FF while ordering a Big Mac from the McDonald's app.  You just drive...the...automobile.  Maybe listen to some tunes or chat with a passenger if you're feeling spicy.

 

They've done tons of studies, that show distracted driving is as much, and sometimes more of an impairment than drunk driving.  And phones and infotainment items are becoming a far more common culprit in accidents (and lethal ones) than alcohol.  It's bad news man.

 

Quote

So, by this principle - do you prefer houses that are four walls and a roof with heating/cooling and running water? No Ring doorbells, no smart TVs, no Nest thermostat?

I mean...yeah.  Absolutely.  Four walls, roof, heating, plumbing...that's a ****in' house.  That's what it is, and probably should be.  I have a really hard time fathoming why anybody would want to "technologically integrate" their entire home with like bizarre networked thermostats and doorbells and a fridge that tells them when they need to buy milk all connected to their automobile via their telephone.  It's like Huxley-esque ****.  I like interacting with the physical world kinda.  Flipping a lightswitch, turning up a thermostat (which there are a bazillion programmable ones available that aren't Nest tech garbage, so you can still be environmentally friendly with automatic cycles of heating/cooling without using networking to your phone and or distraction automobile).  It's not hard to remember to buy milk.

 

A Smart TV?  Sure.  Go for it.  But operating a TV in a stationary domicile is fundamentally different from operating a 4000lb death machine on wheels.  They're not even remotely comparable tasks.

 

Quote

There's a market for this technology. A significant market at that, the Internet of Things (IOT) is probably the next great evolution of... well, life as we know it. You have fridges that can tell you when you're running out of staple items, you have doorbells that can tag packages and let you know when you get a delivery, you have a bevy of products at home that use tech to learn and adapt to your specific needs. Why wouldn't you want that in your car?

There's a market for this technology, because there are forces in the market that are built to drive the need to consume more.  To have more.  To have everything be the latest and greatest and most integrated-est.  It's simply not necessary.  It's superfluous technological integration that marketing tells people they are supposed to want.  Yet spend more time troubleshooting integration and glitches, than they would have spent just...doing the task it's supposed to automate.  And cars are on the front lines of this.

 

Quote

How easy would it be if your car knew you were due for an oil change, and then reserved a bay for you at a Jiffy Lube and paid for the transaction as soon as the hood was closed? How about a car that could diagnose a small leak in a tire, check out multiple tire locations for your specific tires on your commute, cross reference best prices and schedule your appointment - even before you rolled out of your driveway?

If my car ever booked itself an oil change at Jiffy Lube, i'd send it there because it deserves the awful fate it's about to receive.  But i'd never wish that fate upon even my worst enemy's automobile.  What an awful place to ever take a car.  Why would you hurt a car that way?  That's cruel.

 

Like none of what you're describing there sounds remotely desirable to me.  That sounds downright hellish.  I don't ever want to live in a world where my car decides what it's doing like that, and i'm just cargo along for the ride.  I like to choose things for myself.  Even if they're sometimes dumb and wrong and stupid.  That's life.  That's the whole point.  Living life.  Not having it laid out for you by a computer in your car.

 

 

Lane departure systems are just an insidious early step toward that hellscape direction you're describing.  And i hate them, passionately.

 

Quote

That's less Draconian... more redundant. The law already demands people don't use phones, but is that really causing a dent in phone usage?

So, what's the next step?

The next step, is the first step.

 

Actually policing things like distracted driving.  Mandating more stringent driving tests to prove that people are capable of operating a motor vehicle competently.  Instead of whatever it is police do instead.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Tugboat

[ET80]

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

It's still a distraction though.  You started by breaking the law because you couldn't ignore your phone for a little while, then you sought out a device to help you continue to be distracted while you operate a motor vehicle...legally?  Neither of those is good imo.

On a scale of distractions, it's probably the lowest possible distraction - I'd rate it somewhere in between changing your Radio or taking a sip from your coffee or water. 

Distractions are inevitable - it's a very ambiguous bucket you're arguing now, but a car that will read to me and respond to a few steering wheel clicks (or my own voice - because voice activated responses are a thing) is no different than listening to the radio or talking to a passenger (which you endorsed as an acceptable - yet "saucy" - activity).

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

There's a market for this technology, because there are forces in the market that are built to drive the need to consume more.  To have more.  To have everything be the latest and greatest and most integrated-est.  It's simply not necessary.  It's superfluous technological integration that marketing tells people they are supposed to want.  Yet spend more time troubleshooting integration and glitches, than they would have spent just...doing the task it's supposed to automate.  And cars are on the front lines of this.

Whatever you say, Unabomber...

Why the market acts the way it does is irrelevant. It's not necessary to YOU, but it's sometimes a deciding factor to a consumer. It's marketing to YOU, but to a mother of three kids who has to communte their children everywhere? A salesperson who is on the road going from appointment to appointment? An insurance adjustor who has to file and send data within certain timeframes to meet federal standards? Yeah, these things are pretty important to them, despite what YOUR feelings are.

TL;DR - It ain't about YOU, bruv. Other people have other needs that need to be accounted for. Just because YOU don't need them doesn't mean the driver down the road doesn't need them.

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

If my car ever booked itself an oil change at Jiffy Lube, i'd send it there because it deserves the awful fate it's about to receive.  But i'd never wish that fate upon even my worst enemy's automobile.  What an awful place to ever take a car.  Why would you hurt a car that way?  That's cruel.

*Sigh*

You car books at a Merchant Acquirer that process under Merchant Category Code 5541 (Per Visa Merchant Data Standards, Updated 10/2019). 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/visa-merchant-data-standards-manual.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiftdjHlYftAhUOGKwKHT8MBwYQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw2212vNbf9Nfx280Qjo5vZN

That better?

You're not silo-ed into a single location, you have the option to pick anyone who you'd want (I went with a familiar name that nobody should get lost with, and one that is pacing the field in transaction volume). 

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Like none of what you're describing there sounds remotely desirable to me.  That sounds downright hellish.  I don't ever want to live in a world where my car decides what it's doing like that, and i'm just cargo along for the ride.  I like to choose things for myself.  Even if they're sometimes dumb and wrong and stupid.  That's life.  That's the whole point.  Living life.  Not having it laid out for you by a computer in your car.

I think you've watched too many Sci Fi movies. This isn't Skynet, this isn't The Matrix. All of these features can be turned off about as easily as you start your car. You have full autonomy on your choices if you choose to use them - you can ignore it all or you can turn it off. And as a consumer, these things are valuable to me.

I'm a father of two kids, one of which is on the spectrum - so my day is pretty much mapped out from 6am onwards, and things such as scheduling things for my car comes second to their school, my son's therapy, swim lessons, drum lessons, soccer practice, etc. So, having a car that can integrate with my schedule and work around my schedule is pretty sweet.

It's nice you can "live life" like that, but some of us have responsibilities that have to be handled. That's why these things work better for us. Suggesting that such features be outlawed because YOU don't like them and YOU'RE not going to use them (but ignoring people it does help and people who do like) is...

...well, that's textbook Draconian. The needs and desires of YOU outweigh the needs and desires of everyone else. 

Is that fair to say? That's the natural progression of your viewpoint on this. You're referencing what you like, others be damned!

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Actually policing things like distracted driving.  Mandating more stringent driving tests to prove that people are capable of operating a motor vehicle competently.  Instead of whatever it is police do instead.

Not sure where you're at (Canada, I think?) but policing it is pretty strict in Texas. You get hit pretty hard on a first offense - ticket, fine, points on your record, potential suspensions for multiple offenses, etc. That's what happens here, not sure what the story is elsewhere. 

Also - define distraction for me. I don't think anyone would want this to be ambiguous in nature. My biggest distraction are my kids, and I'm sure I'm not the only parent with this issue. Should we legislate against transporting your kids around?

So, once again - what's the next step once the first step is already in place? Jail time? 

[MikeT14]

Anybody a car mechanic here? Quick question and google isn't helping much.

I was sitting in my car with it off except for the radio... it wasn't THAT long, but long enough that I guess it killed the battery some. I let it sit for a while and the car started eventually and I got home. Flash forward and I'm def having some issues, but not sure what. My car turns over fine, but you can tell it sounds weird (like it's straining). It hasn't NOT started yet, and I drive everywhere fine. I also noticed not ALL of my electrical items in my car are working properly. The backup camera comes up fine, but not all the assist lines show. So, the car turns over, and eventually starts, but it doesn't sound right doing it. There's a small struggle.

Any thoughts?

[bigbadbuff]

26 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Anybody a car mechanic here? Quick question and google isn't helping much.

I was sitting in my car with it off except for the radio... it wasn't THAT long, but long enough that I guess it killed the battery some. I let it sit for a while and the car started eventually and I got home. Flash forward and I'm def having some issues, but not sure what. My car turns over fine, but you can tell it sounds weird (like it's straining). It hasn't NOT started yet, and I drive everywhere fine. I also noticed not ALL of my electrical items in my car are working properly. The backup camera comes up fine, but not all the assist lines show. So, the car turns over, and eventually starts, but it doesn't sound right doing it. There's a small struggle.

Any thoughts?

Alternator?

[MikeT14]

24 minutes ago, bigbadbuff said:

Alternator?

Googling, it could be that. 

[GHARMON9]

3 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Anybody a car mechanic here? Quick question and google isn't helping much.

I was sitting in my car with it off except for the radio... it wasn't THAT long, but long enough that I guess it killed the battery some. I let it sit for a while and the car started eventually and I got home. Flash forward and I'm def having some issues, but not sure what. My car turns over fine, but you can tell it sounds weird (like it's straining). It hasn't NOT started yet, and I drive everywhere fine. I also noticed not ALL of my electrical items in my car are working properly. The backup camera comes up fine, but not all the assist lines show. So, the car turns over, and eventually starts, but it doesn't sound right doing it. There's a small struggle.

Any thoughts?

Year of the vehicle? Last time you changed tout the battery? Probably need a new battery. If the alternator is bad,  Your vehicle would start and eventually just kill off.

[MikeT14]

3 minutes ago, GHARMON9 said:

Year of the vehicle? Last time you changed tout the battery? Probably need a new battery. If the alternator is bad,  Your vehicle would start and eventually just kill off.

2018 - never had to change it. 

[GHARMON9]

23 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

2018 - never had to change it. 

Especially in a hotter states like FL, you're right on time for a new battery.

Alternator or any other part like a starter should be 100% under manufacturer  warranty. 

95% sure you need a new battery tho. lol .All big places like Firestone, pepboys, Autozone, Advanced  etc.should test it for free for you.

[Uncle Buck]

I'm sure these probably don't appeal much to the younger generations, but being a product of the 80's, I've been wanting one of these ever since the first day I saw a new one sitting on the showroom floor at a local Lincoln dealer back in the early 80's. 

Lately, I've been thinking it would be fun to finally go for it and get one after I retire and make a project out of it.  The exterior styling is awesome, IMO, but the interiors and the engines are often a little lacking, being as they were built on a Ford Mustang chassis with a 5.0 liter engine.

   

[Sugashane]

 

 

So I bought a Lincoln Navigator L last year and love. Went to change the oil today and found out the bolt in the oil pan is stripped. So I'm going to have the pan re-threaded tomorrow. All things considered an easy enough fix, but this verifies exactly why I never want to take my vehicles anywhere to get the oil changed. If it wouldn't have been December or if I had a garage I would have done it myself like usual and it wouldn't have been stripped.

[theJ]

On 11/12/2020 at 7:36 AM, bigbadbuff said:

A lot of lane assist features now don’t even flash lights at you or make any noise, instead the straighten the steering wheel when and only when you drift out of the lane. It automatically turns off when you have your blinker on as well so it’s never fighting you unless you truly are out of your lane.

Gravedigging this post - i had a rental car yesterday that had this feature.  First time i've ever had it.  While it was accurate probably 95% of the time while on the highway, i had to turn it off for particular stretches:

• construction zones - the mashup of painted over lines, transitioning pavements, and narrow lanes made it really scary.  It actually pulled me dangerously closer to a semi in a particularly narrow spot, which really got me white knuckling the wheel.
• wet pavement - it had snowed recently, so there were lots of salt lines, and wet/dry pavement lines.  That seemed to throw the sensors off as well, which pulled me toward the right a lot more than i wanted.

Anyway, just thought i'd share my experience.  Not a huge fan of that particular technology.