SpeightTheVillain Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 17 hours ago, Old Guy said: I don't think Karlaftis is going to test well. Heck of a football player but I see Ryan Kerrigan as his upside. A little bit bigger version and maybe could slide inside on passing downs. I think Pickens is going to rise as the process goes on. Couldn't do much coming off ACL this year. He's a stud for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said: We shall see. He didn't play to those measurables. Also, the guy should have been unblockable and he wasn't. I don't see him as a top 10 pick but pass rushers do get drafted quite high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 "The Ability to Rush the Passer" is the single most valuable attribute a human being can have on draft night. Bruce Irvin could do nothing else, but went top-15 and as much flak as that pick got the night of, it worked out fairly well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said: "The Ability to Rush the Passer" is the single most valuable attribute a human being can have on draft night. Bruce Irvin could do nothing else, but went top-15 and as much flak as that pick got the night of, it worked out fairly well. Ability to throw the football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Ability to throw the football There's a lot of unrelated parts to "throwing the football" arm strength, accuracy, touch are potentially contraindicated and a QB who has a cannon but can't read a defense or move in the pocket isn't that valuable. On the other hand if you have a guy who can rush the passer well who does nothing else of value, you have a role for that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Ability to throw the football If you can’t throw it, you better be able to hit the guy who does. If you can’t do that, you better be able to block the guy who hits the guy who can throw the ball. When all else fails, don’t let the guy catch the ball from the guy who throws it if you can’t hit him or block the guy who will hit that guy. 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 45 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: There's a lot of unrelated parts to "throwing the football" arm strength, accuracy, touch are potentially contraindicated and a QB who has a cannon but can't read a defense or move in the pocket isn't that valuable. On the other hand if you have a guy who can rush the passer well who does nothing else of value, you have a role for that guy. Yeah I gotta side with Cabbage on this one. Raw, unadulterated throwing ability will not stop you from being knocked down a few pegs if teams don't think you have the moxie to be an NFL QB. Although some guys certainly have flown up draft boards on arm talent alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said: There's a lot of unrelated parts to "throwing the football" arm strength, accuracy, touch are potentially contraindicated and a QB who has a cannon but can't read a defense or move in the pocket isn't that valuable. On the other hand if you have a guy who can rush the passer well who does nothing else of value, you have a role for that guy. And there aren't a lot of unrelated parts to rushing the passer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said: There's a lot of unrelated parts to "throwing the football" arm strength, accuracy, touch are potentially contraindicated and a QB who has a cannon but can't read a defense or move in the pocket isn't that valuable. I look for a QB to be able to do well in three areas 1) Can he read a defense and go through his progressions. (football smarts + memory)) 2) Can he put the ball where it needs to be (arm strength, touch, accuracy). 3) Can he buy a little time in the pocket (senses pressure, part of that is reading defenses. Can throw on the run). If he has the three main things, you start looking at other stuff. If he is weak in one of these three areas, move on to another guy. If he doesn't turn over the ball much, great. Has a cannon arm - it certainly helps. He is a leader (that's good too). Tough, it's pretty important to be able to stand in there against a fast-closing blitz and still be accurate. Stays healthy - highly valuable. All these points are good, and your guy will be better at some of these than others. Lastly is he reasonably high character..............after all he is the face of your franchise and the captain of your ship (at least on offense). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said: And there aren't a lot of unrelated parts to rushing the passer? Sure, but we look at different positions differently in terms of wins/losses. A pass rusher who wins 30% of their opportunities is a pro bowler, a OT who does not win 90%+ of his opportunities is a guy you're looking to replace. A bad '-' for an Edge is a thing you have to live with, a '-' from a quarterback will end drives let alone games. A QB who makes 10 great plays and 10 terrible plays is a problem. A pass rusher who makes 10 great plays and 10 terrible plays is a guy who's still going to play a lot. Only one person on the offence can do what the QB is asked to do, several people on the defense can pick up the slack if one Edge is not winning on any given play. All you really need to make it as a pass rusher in the NFL is the athletic talent with one move that works enough, and a counter that works enough. Edited February 12, 2022 by PossibleCabbage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 1 hour ago, PossibleCabbage said: Sure, but we look at different positions differently in terms of wins/losses. A pass rusher who wins 30% of their opportunities is a pro bowler, a OT who does not win 90%+ of his opportunities is a guy you're looking to replace. A bad '-' for an Edge is a thing you have to live with, a '-' from a quarterback will end drives let alone games. A QB who makes 10 great plays and 10 terrible plays is a problem. A pass rusher who makes 10 great plays and 10 terrible plays is a guy who's still going to play a lot. Only one person on the offence can do what the QB is asked to do, several people on the defense can pick up the slack if one Edge is not winning on any given play. All you really need to make it as a pass rusher in the NFL is the athletic talent with one move that works enough, and a counter that works enough. Yes, that's why we judge the "acceptable" threshold of talent based on their ability to reach an acceptable success rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 On 2/7/2022 at 3:53 PM, Old Guy said: I don't think Karlaftis is going to test well. Heck of a football player but I see Ryan Kerrigan as his upside. A little bit bigger version and maybe could slide inside on passing downs. Where does this notion that Karlaftis is a bad athlete coming from? I see it all the time, and I'm not sure what people are watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: Where does this notion that Karlaftis is a bad athlete coming from? I see it all the time, and I'm not sure what people are watching. Agreed. I literally posted his college testing numbers and it is off the charts. He didn't suddenly become a worse athlete. Obviously that does not mean he will be a great player but the argument that he won't test well has already been disproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 19 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said: There's a lot of unrelated parts to "throwing the football" arm strength, accuracy, touch are potentially contraindicated and a QB who has a cannon but can't read a defense or move in the pocket isn't that valuable. On the other hand if you have a guy who can rush the passer well who does nothing else of value, you have a role for that guy. Suggesting that "rushing the passer" is a single skill while "throwing the football" needs to be broken down into multiple traits seems more than a little arbitrary to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: Where does this notion that Karlaftis is a bad athlete coming from? I see it all the time, and I'm not sure what people are watching. Racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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