Top 12 QBs in the league.

[DoleINGout]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

I've read some pretty outlandish things on this forum over the years but this might just be the most absurd. 🤔 😂

I find it absurd how a lot of Raiders fans do a total 180 on Carr whenever it is seems convenient for them.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DoleINGout

[Darbsk]

38 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

I find it absurd how a lot of Raiders fans do a total 180 on Carr whenever it is seems convenient for them.

Oh, I do too for sure, just not quite as absurd as your previous statement.

 

[Nozizaki]

8 hours ago, Turnobili said:

Carr and Cousins have both been underrated for a few years now. Not sayin either is top 5 but both are pretty soundly top 10-13 guys 

This season specifically both should be in the MVP conversation.

[SBLIII]

Cousins is 3rd in PFF, 2nd in QBR and 5th in EPA/play.

Not saying this stats should mean everything and you should draw your conclusions from them but they should mean something.

That now gives Cousins 101 TDs/30 INTs over his MIN career. Those are very good numbers no matter how many times he got away with some bad throws that didn't get picked, didn't come up with the decisive play to win the game or is better because of a good running game. 

Cousins has played plenty well enough for the Vikings to be 3-0.

[ronjon1990]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:57 PM, DoleINGout said:

Yeah we know what Carr's ceiling is at this point. I think we see Mac is capable of replicating that as a rookie already.

A guy who has gotten better and better over the last 3 seasons and all of a sudden he has a defined ceiling? 

His floor is defined, for sure. He can have some absolutely atrocious plays, drives, even an atrocious game or two per year. 

But his ceiling is MVP caliber play that rivals some of the best, particularly in high pressure situations. Top 5 overall? No. Top 10? Easily. If I'm running a two minute drill and have to score a TD, there aren't many I would rather have. He knows his limitations, understands how to be careful with his passes, and won't often try to make too much happen at risk of a backbreaking mistake. Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, and maybe one other guy in the right situation would be more trustworthy. 

 

Mac hasn't shown anywhere near that, and that's not even a sleight. Lol

[DoleINGout]

7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Oh, I do too for sure, just not quite as absurd as your previous statement.

 

That through the first two games Mac Jones was more consistent? Really? Watch their first two games and look at the stats then if it seems that outlandish. Mac and Carr both had a pick six in week 3 but Jones was failed by his team if you watched the Patriots play the Saints. I don't see how Carr and most other QB's wouldn't have fared the same or even worse than Mac. Alas, Carr was better overall in week 3 and has a more proven track record so I bumped him up in the weekly rankings to reflect that.

Garoppolo through two weeks it was arguable either way, but I had ranked Jimmy G closer to Carr than Mac in every ranking anyhow. Jimmy G improved this year a little but had proven himself to be largely unreliable either via durability or in late game situations in contrast to Carr. That said, G did manage to bounce back from his mistake in week 3 to direct what was a go ahead drive.

[Turnobili]

3 hours ago, Nozizaki said:

This season specifically both should be in the MVP conversation.

washington paid the price for perennially underrating their own guy. let him play out the last year of his rookie deal, franchised him twice. never gave him a contract. they've seemingly been a QB away ever since he went to the Vikings

[Darbsk]

43 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

That through the first two games Mac Jones was more consistent? Really? Watch their first two games and look at the stats then if it seems that outlandish. Mac and Carr both had a pick six in week 3 but Jones was failed by his team if you watched the Patriots play the Saints. I don't see how Carr and most other QB's wouldn't have fared the same or even worse than Mac. Alas, Carr was better overall in week 3 and has a more proven track record so I bumped him up in the weekly rankings to reflect that.

Garoppolo through two weeks it was arguable either way, but I had ranked Jimmy G closer to Carr than Mac in every ranking anyhow. Jimmy G improved this year a little but had proven himself to be largely unreliable either via durability or in late game situations in contrast to Carr. That said, G did manage to bounce back from his mistake in week 3 to direct what was a go ahead drive.

Well, the thing is we have multiple years of film and analysis of Carr so we don't have to rely upon the laughably small sample size of two games* (one of which for Jones was against one of the worst teams I've ever seen). How about we give Jones a year and see if he's consistent and see if we can open up an obviously dumbed down playbook before you say he's better than a multiple Pro Bowler who finished third in MVP voting in '16 and looks like he may be in the same type of form now and was very good last year and who's carried the often inept Raider teams of recent years on his back?

*I say two games as that is when the original quote was taken, not after these last games.

Now, that's not to say Jones couldn't suddenly erupt and be a better player than Carr and Garroppolo, that is certainly possible but as of right now, it's not even a conversation and to try and argue Jones is MORE consistent, not just as consistent or near consistent as Carr after two games is, frankly absurb. I hope he turns out to be as good as you hope, but he ain't there yet sorry 😀

[ronjon1990]

55 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

washington paid the price for perennially underrating their own guy. let him play out the last year of his rookie deal, franchised him twice. never gave him a contract. they've seemingly been a QB away ever since he went to the Vikings

No offense to Heinicke, but I sincerely feel like Washington beats Tampa Bay in the playoffs last year if Alex Smith had been good to go. Shame what happened with him. They still would've needed a QBOTF, but yo your point, the lack of good QB play has really hampered an otherwise pretty decent squad.

[SBLIII]

9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

No offense to Heinicke, but I sincerely feel like Washington beats Tampa Bay in the playoffs last year if Alex Smith had been good to go. Shame what happened with him. They still would've needed a QBOTF, but yo your point, the lack of good QB play has really hampered an otherwise pretty decent squad.

Heinicke played out of his mind against Tampa, I think they would have been worse off with Smith.

[DoleINGout]

49 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

is, frankly absurb

I agree to disagree. It is plainly obvious to me. You can see it with Jones. Only thing going to tear him down is Josh McDaniels play calling, potential injuries, or the GM-bereft 70 year old Belichick.

Edited September 29, 2021 by DoleINGout

[DoleINGout]

48 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

see if we can open up an obviously dumbed down playbook

https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-mac-jones-deep-passes

[Darbsk]

1 minute ago, DoleINGout said:

Agree you to disagree. It is plainly obvious. You can see it in Jones. only thing going to tear him down is Josh McDaniels play calling, potential injuries, or the GM-bereft 70 year old Belichick.

Ok, we'll agree to disagree if you like but I would say that McDaniels had done a great job protecting him and easing him in, the opposite of Zach Wilson.

I think the Pats are handling Mac Jones really well and he'll benefit in the long run. I like Wilson too and just hope the Jets don't break him before he can mature and learn to be an NFL QB. It'll be fascinating to see how both their seasons evolve 🙂

[Darbsk]

13 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

see if we can open up an obviously dumbed down playbook

https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-josh-mcdaniels-mac-jones-deep-passes

The link you posted explains how the Patriots are employing a dink and dunk style offence with Jones averaging 5.6 air yards per throw! I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing but it's exactly what you do when you're trying to limit mistakes and protect your rookie QB. That seems obvious. Carr is averaging 9.7 yards depth of target for comparison. 

As I said previously, I think the Pats are doing a great job of easing Jones in and handling him just right, kind of the opposite of Zach Wilson. Did you see how many screens and passes to RBs he threw versus the Jets? They did a flea flicker and still only threw the ball 10 yards...... It's all on film, stats are great and all and Jones has a great completion percentage but they need to be taken in context. Carr has played against 3 of the best defences in the NFL and against 3 teams who won 10 games last year and put up 1200 yards, six TDs and led two come from behind wins and been our best player maybe with the exception of Crosby. Jones was averaging 5.6 air yards, being protected by the scheme and one of the team's he played was the hapless Jets who threw 4 interceptions leading to short fields and great chances to score and Jones couldn't put the ball in the endzone consistently.

You're saying Jones is more consistent but Carr is playing in a much more aggressive scheme with much harder throws to make and pushing the ball down the field often minus our RB1 and 3 of the starting OL against very good defences. He's started slowly in game one (after having no game time in pre season at all) but has been clutch and very reliable thus far. 

As I said in reply to you last time, we can agree to disagree if you like and let's just see how Mac Jones' year turns out and revisit 😀

[NoFlyZone]

7 hours ago, SBLIII said:

Cousins is 3rd in PFF, 2nd in QBR and 5th in EPA/play.

Not saying this stats should mean everything and you should draw your conclusions from them but they should mean something.

That now gives Cousins 101 TDs/30 INTs over his MIN career. Those are very good numbers no matter how many times he got away with some bad throws that didn't get picked, didn't come up with the decisive play to win the game or is better because of a good running game. 

Cousins has played plenty well enough for the Vikings to be 3-0.

Cousins has looked extremely impressive. One of the league’s most underrated players. Honestly, I don’t feel that there is much separation between him and guys that are routinely considered in the 3-5 range. I’m really considering him a second tier QB at this point. Definitely a player on the rise, and yet he has also been playing at a high level for awhile now.