OBJ Thread

[BgDawg]

Does this end the Baker vs. Odell is the problem debate? Meaning, I can just blame everything going forward on Baker (I am still waiting for that 4th quarter comeback, but my ire earlier in the season was a bit misguided)? 

When the OBJ trade was announced, it was another in a very long list of moves that I had to convince myself into liking. It wasn't terribly difficult due to the highlight real of his first few years, but given his personality, it never felt like a good fit for Cleveland. That would have been easily forgiven if he had come here and balled out, but we just got glimpses that kept the discussion for two and a half seasons. 

Hopefully Baker turns it around again much like last season. I have only experienced a partially torn labrum, and that hurt like hell for a month. Can only imagine what trying to play with that is like. 

[Kiwibrown]

16 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

As Eric Metcalf said. People need to stop blaming OBJ, He’s a special player and quiet frankly we are making him look like a scrub.

 

He is open so many times as our other players but Baker can’t see it. 

Weakest hands in the AFC

[Kiwibrown]

20 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

 

He should pay us money for being so ctqp at football.

[Kiwibrown]

1. Thank God. 

2. About time 

3. I wish him the texans

[ReggieCamp]

Not sure how this will end, but if Berry really just de-activates him for the rest of our games (and doesn't release him), that's... kinda good.

Not only does it eliminate the chance of OBJ helping another team, but it also shows that you can't manipulate yourself into a FA. I kinda like that we're willing to burn a roster spot just to let it play out.

** Starts to daydream **   Browns go on a roll and make their first Superb Owl. Realizing that OBJ will get a ring, Berry cuts him the week before the big game.

[BrownsDog23]

Appropriate response from the Organization after the social media nonsense and now there is zero excuse for Baker the rest of the way

[candyman93]

1 minute ago, ReggieCamp said:

Not sure how this will end, but if Berry really just de-activates him for the rest of our games (and doesn't release him), that's... kinda good.

Not only does it eliminate the chance of OBJ helping another team, but it also shows that you can't manipulate yourself into a FA. I kinda like that we're willing to burn a roster spot just to let it play out.

** Starts to daydream **   Browns go on a roll and make their first Superb Owl. Realizing that OBJ will get a ring, Berry cuts him the week before the big game.

Just wait for *** like Lebron to chime in.

 

Just get DPJ the damn ball please.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

13 minutes ago, BgDawg said:

Does this end the Baker vs. Odell is the problem debate? Meaning, I can just blame everything going forward on Baker (I am still waiting for that 4th quarter comeback, but my ire earlier in the season was a bit misguided)? 
 

Who’s been stopping you this whole time?

13 minutes ago, BgDawg said:

When the OBJ trade was announced, it was another in a very long list of moves that I had to convince myself into liking. It wasn't terribly difficult due to the highlight real of his first few years, but given his personality, it never felt like a good fit for Cleveland. That would have been easily forgiven if he had come here and balled out, but we just got glimpses that kept the discussion for two and a half seasons. 
 

Was never a fan.  I liked Peppers, still think he’d be good in this defense, don’t like trading away first rounders either.

13 minutes ago, BgDawg said:

Hopefully Baker turns it around again much like last season. I have only experienced a partially torn labrum, and that hurt like hell for a month. Can only imagine what trying to play with that is like. 

I don’t care about the numbers, just spread the ball around and start putting points on the board consistently.  That’s all he has to do imo.

[Rod Johnson]

32 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

As Eric Metcalf said. People need to stop blaming OBJ, He’s a special player and quiet frankly we are making him look like a scrub.

 

He is open so many times as our other players but Baker can’t see it. 

I can absolutely blame OBJ for not being able to put a muzzle on his dad, or worse using him as a mouthpiece, to publicly bad-mouth your teammate who is putting his career on the line playing through a serious injury.

[Empire Lies]

Long Post to End All Long Post -- May Ye Derps Enjoy Thine Eternal Great-Amnesia-ing Know Nothing-ness 

The mind characters shall never return to these parts again and empire lies perpetually.

 

Andrew Berry and Stefanski's Missed Opportunity (Or Maybe Not):

OBJ has been a great teammate and been all in on the team since he's been in Cleveland contrary to perception regarding how he was in New York or past immaturities. Even after tearing an ACL on a play where he was severely underthrown against Cincy. To state otherwise, is a biased fueled feel-good illusions for those that want to perceive things a certain way.

To cut OBJ over his dad posting youtube videos prompted by OBJ or not is the most foolish, or b/c OBJ requested a trade is unbelievably short-sighted foolishness and a huge fumble by Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski. They should've traded him for absolutely anything other than cutting him which seems to be coming soon. Ridiculous wasted opportunity whether that be with New Orleans or whoever else. To get nothing in return is malpractice.

The Browns should pay him, sit him, and wait until the offseason to get something for his services/talents. Even if in the offseason that only nets a 3rd round pick it's worthwhile.

Stefanksi was unable to effectively repair relationships with Stefon Diggs when the offensive turmoil in Minnesota caused Diggs to de facto request a trade due to offensive frustrations. Kirk Cousins' issues then are similar to Baker's issues. Diggs had drops and had an aloof personality and things were leaked in the media. Stefanski has to learn from Diggs and OBJ and do his best to mend fences with talented guys before things devolve past the point of no return.  Diggs said after he left that he didn't feel that there would be a solution from those offering solutions. OBJ likely feels the same.

---------------------------

You Derps are Sickening:

You derps make me sick.

You don't accept the light of All22 Truth.

Ye only see the world through your emotional, tv angle, derpian perspectives.

Unashamed Charlatans of the highest order. Shame upon all thee.

Anyone that has watched the unwavering truth of all22 film projector film knows that Baker has not seen the field well and has missed not only OBJ but others countlessly for years. Those miss plays can result in a completion to other targets so it goes down as a positive in the boxscore to derpian applause.

Also, anyone taking in All22 light would know that there are plays to attribute blame to OBJ. but the vast majority of the time he's doing his job.

----------------------------

What the Blind Derps Miss:

What WR wants to come to Cleveland and play with Baker Mayfield? No matter the belief about Stefanski's offense, top WRs aren't going to be excited to play with Baker right or wrong and we have little evidence to believe Baker can thrive in the mental pressure environment of having a WR1 that the media and play pressure is going to attend to.

What many of you blind derps have missed is that the tape and film review of misses has been seen by coaches and players in their meetings to the effect that those players and coaches appropriately place blame on OBJ where it is due, but also have come away with the impression that Baker Mayfield is not that guy even if they hold onto hope that he can be in the future.

Any unbiased person watching the all22 over the years knows from Stefanski, to Kareem Hunt, to Jarvis, Assistant coaches, etc many of Baker's misses based on sideline reaction befuddle people on the team.

I have no doubt that teammate like and respect Baker, but anyone that works with him reviews the film, much like the coaches and GM, is unsure if he can be the guy.

Time will tell.

OBJ going to ball out at his next organization.

-----------------------------------

Missed in all of This Part 2 - We All Know Everyone Blames OBJ but when OBJ's gone those remaining have to make sure this type of situation doesn't happen again:

Baker's the franchise foundation here for the foreseeable future. He has to learn from this.

If you can't thrive mentally with the pressure of a big name, big personality, media focusing WR1 that QB is going to have a hard time attracting top talents.

Much of the best of what we believe about Baker (8 weeks last year) happened against the worst 4 of the Top 5 Worst teams last year in addition to 2 other top 12 worst teams/defenses.

 

  

On 10/21/2021 at 1:09 PM, Empire Lies said:

 

Why didn't you post that earlier? That proves it!

Baker was a better player than Mahomes last year weak 9 on and thus we should see him as elite still this year!

Ahhh yes! Last year. What a time to be believe it 'twas.

It was a terrible time on Earth, but a wonderful time in Browns NFL time. The Browns winning with a steady, smart Head Coach etc. Through wild unavailabilities due to the virus the team and Baker still played well.

Post-bye week 9 the Browns offense had new life. Baker balled out a lot against the Ravens and Titans no doubt.

BUT I do remember those games post week 9 bye week a little differently than most it seems.

For starters, those final 8 regular season games, the Browns played 4 of the Top 5 Worst Teams in the League. In another game they played the Steelers Backup and in another they played the 11th Worst Team in the league. The Worst team in the league (Jaguars), the 2nd Worst team in the league (Jets), the 4th Worst team in the league (Texans), the 5th Worst team in the League (Eagles), the 11th Worst Team of the league (Giants), and the Steelers Backups. And it's important to note that not only were those Teams the worst in the league, but the Defense matched in almost every case if not worse how bad the team was.

Though it's true COVID-19 restrictions saw other key members of the Browns team out, one could still take into account that context of opponent quality when factoring in quality of Browns players' or Baker's play.

------------

Now that a brief discussion of some context has taken place, this is how:

Wk 10: Texans (4th Worst Team in the League)-- Wind Game, Terrible passing conditions

Wk 11: Eagles (5th Worst Team in the League) -- Wind/Weather effected some passing game, but open bad misses as well

Wk 12: Jacksonville (The Worst Team in the League) -- 3 really bad wide open throw misses on critical (Kareem Hunt, Higgins in the Endzone) and many missed reads

Wk 13: Titans (26th Worst Team in the League) -- Played well within structure but fumbled on a QB sneak that could've changed the outcome of the game late.

Wk 14: Ravens (24th Worst Team in the League) -- Balled out certifiably. Amazing ball placement throughou Both in and Out of structure Top 2 game if not the best of his career outside of a terrible 3rd quarter INT.

Wk 15: Giants (11th Worst Team in the League) - meh

Wk 16: Jets (2nd Worst Team in the League) -- WRs out, but missed wide open throws and had 3 fumbles including one on a QB sneak.

Wk 17: Steelers (The Steelers Backups) -- meh

 

-----

In general, I've addressed those week 7 or week 9 breakdowns of Baker's play more specifically here in prior response to you that of course you didn't read (nor did I... F-those long posts,... wall of texts)

  

On 10/6/2021 at 6:19 PM, Empire Lies said:

 

Which is the true person, Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde?

Such is the question of which version of Baker is the real Baker.

That’s because his the full body of work often possesses equal negatives to positives.

The conflict that people have about Baker represents the conflicting nature of his top level play clashing with his bottom basement performance.

Let’s take an example: Let’s say that there’s this charlantan non-wordsmithian named MWil who is near the absolute bottom of meaningful performance metrics for 8 games in the 2020 season (that accounts for the average performance between the up weeks and down weeks during that time period). After those 8 games, that derp finds his way near the top of performance metrics for approximately 9 games (that accounts for the average performance between the up weeks and down weeks during that time period). Then, in the new 2021 season that same Bakersballsacksman is at the absolute bottom for 4 games (that accounts for the average performance between the up weeks and down weeks during that time period).

Simple math: That  means out of the last 21 games, 12 games or 57% of games you’ve been cheeks and in 9 games or 43% of games you’ve been performant.

Replace MWil in this example with Baker and that's emblematic of the Baker experience. Now, we all know that there are contextual factors surrounding the various games (i.e., player injury, COVID-19, new offense, etc), but the data this year of a negative trend is not completely new. 

But that’s not the whole picture of performance as there are also prior seasons of data with their own contextual factors that point toward the trend as well.

---------------

The Relevant Analytical Comparison:

Let’s look at the “under pressure” analytics and overall performance metrics.

They don’t suggest exactly what you think they suggest.

I think you are mixing up some things and selectively attending to some metrics/analytics and forgetting other aspect of Baker’s performance. Specifically, that by only taking into account Baker’s best stretch in the 2^nd half of last season (week 7 and on), he was still only the 20^th ranked QB under pressure according to PFF. He was however much higher in other relevant metrics.

We’ve all seen in read the post bye week analytical breakdown of Baker’s performance. Typically, the breakdown has focused on Baker’s performance Week 7 through the postseason where he ranked second among quarterbacks in passing grade (91.8), fifth in big-time throw rate (6.6%) and first in turnover-worthy play rate (1.6%).

I.) PFF Overall Performance 2020 Season (Pre-VS-Post Week 7)

Weeks 1-6 (26th in the NFL)

Passing Grade: 57.3

Big Time Throw % (BTT%): 3.9%

Turnover Worthy % (TWP%): 5.6%

Weeks 7-DP (2nd in the NFL)

Passing Grade: 91.8

Big Time Throw % (BTT%): 6.6%

Turnover Worthy % (TWP%): 1.6%

 

II.) Under Pressure 2020 Season (Pre-VS-Post Week 7)

Weeks 1-6 (36th in the NFL)

Passing Grade: 32.9

Big Time Throw % (BTT%): 0.0%

Turnover Worthy % (TWP%): 6.2%

Weeks 7-DP (20th in the NFL)

Passing Grade: 49.9

Big Time Throw % (BTT%): 4.0%

Turnover Worthy % (TWP%): 3.7%

 

The 4-game sample size of 24 passes under pressure this season is of similar but lower quality to Baker at his worst stretch last year before he and the offense figured things out. When someone says "and this is not a new trend," that means this negative trend has happened before. Therefore, the title of Petrak’s article isn’t wrong.

 

Here's Baker's pressure versus not PFF grades via a comparison to his peers this year

---------

Moment Pressure VS. Pocket Pressure: The Real Baker Issue

There's pressure as measured analytically by defensive rush effecting the QB.

To me, the most important pressure that effects Baker negatively can be related but is its own separate entity: Big Game and/or Big Moment Pressure.

I’ve made the points prior that’s the real concerning trend with Baker; that is, whether it be the fumbles against the Jets and Titans on game deciding plays. Or the pre-shoulder injury misses on 3 consecutive final drives against Kansas City and more (see below), Baker’s has as of yet to show he can consistently perform at a top level in those moments.

 In the end, the jury is out on Baker and there’s reason to believe that the offense will start to click as the season progresses. However, assuming that all is well and Baker’s performance has been sunshine and rainbows is a fantasy based dreamscape.

 

 

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

Not sure how this will end, but if Berry really just de-activates him for the rest of our games (and doesn't release him), that's... kinda good.

Not only does it eliminate the chance of OBJ helping another team, but it also shows that you can't manipulate yourself into a FA. I kinda like that we're willing to burn a roster spot just to let it play out.

Like the kids say, **** around and find out.  Well, he did and he is.

6 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

** Starts to daydream **   Browns go on a roll and make their first Superb Owl. Realizing that OBJ will get a ring, Berry cuts him the week before the big game.

Absolutely not.  As far as I’m concerned have a special ring ceremony for him at halftime of the first game next season or something.

“Here’s your ring you didn’t earn on behalf of the team that didn’t need you.”

[candyman93]

DPJ FINNA DUNK ON ALL YALL 

 

sorry last one

[Dawgpoun8017]

All due respect to Eric metcalf, Odell is not a special player anymore 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

I can absolutely blame OBJ for not being able to put a muzzle on his dad, or worse using him as a mouthpiece, to publicly bad-mouth your teammate who is putting his career on the line playing through a serious injury.

Like I said earlier, if it was just dad on his own that post would have come down and OBJ would have addressed it immediately. It didn’t, he didn’t.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Empire Lies said:

Long Post to End All Long Post -- May Ye Derps Enjoy Thine Eternal Great-Amnesia-ing Know Nothing-ness 

The mind characters shall never return to these parts again and empire lies perpetually.

 

Andrew Berry and Stefanski's Missed Opportunity (Or Maybe Not):

OBJ has been a great teammate and been all in on the team since he's been in Cleveland contrary to perception regarding how he was in New York or past immaturities. Even after tearing an ACL on a play where he was severely underthrown against Cincy. To state otherwise, is a biased fueled feel-good illusions for those that want to perceive things a certain way.

To cut OBJ over his dad posting youtube videos prompted by OBJ or not is the most foolish, or b/c OBJ requested a trade is unbelievably short-sighted foolishness and a huge fumble by Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski. They should've traded him for absolutely anything other than cutting him which seems to be coming soon. Ridiculous wasted opportunity whether that be with New Orleans or whoever else. To get nothing in return is malpractice.

The Browns should pay him, sit him, and wait until the offseason to get something for his services/talents. Even if in the offseason that only nets a 3rd round pick it's worthwhile.

Stefanksi was unable to effectively repair relationships with Stefon Diggs when the offensive turmoil in Minnesota caused Diggs to de facto request a trade due to offensive frustrations. Kirk Cousins' issues then are similar to Baker's issues. Diggs had drops and had an aloof personality and things were leaked in the media. Stefanski has to learn from Diggs and OBJ and do his best to mend fences with talented guys before things devolve past the point of no return.  Diggs said after he left that he didn't feel that there would be a solution from those offering solutions. OBJ likely feels the same.

---------------------------

You Derps are Sickening:

You derps make me sick.

You don't accept the light of All22 Truth.

Ye only see the world through your emotional, tv angle, derpian perspectives.

Unashamed Charlatans of the highest order. Shame upon all thee.

Anyone that has watched the unwavering truth of all22 film projector film knows that Baker has not seen the field well and has missed not only OBJ but others countlessly for years. Those miss plays can result in a completion to other targets so it goes down as a positive in the boxscore to derpian applause.

Also, anyone taking in All22 light would know that there are plays to attribute blame to OBJ. but the vast majority of the time he's doing his job.

----------------------------

What the Blind Derps Miss:

What WR wants to come to Cleveland and play with Baker Mayfield? No matter the belief about Stefanski's offense, top WRs aren't going to be excited to play with Baker right or wrong and we have little evidence to believe Baker can thrive in the mental pressure environment of having a WR1 that the media and play pressure is going to attend to.

What many of you blind derps have missed is that the tape and film review of misses has been seen by coaches and players in their meetings to the effect that those players and coaches appropriately place blame on OBJ where it is due, but also have come away with the impression that Baker Mayfield is not that guy even if they hold onto hope that he can be in the future.

Any unbiased person watching the all22 over the years knows from Stefanski, to Kareem Hunt, to Jarvis, Assistant coaches, etc many of Baker's misses based on sideline reaction befuddle people on the team.

I have no doubt that teammate like and respect Baker, but anyone that works with him reviews the film, much like the coaches and GM, is unsure if he can be the guy.

Time will tell.

OBJ going to ball out at his next organization.

-----------------------------------

Missed in all of This Part 2 - We All Know Everyone Blames OBJ but when OBJ's gone those remaining have to make sure this type of situation doesn't happen again:

Baker's the franchise foundation here for the foreseeable future. He has to learn from this.

If you can't thrive mentally with the pressure of a big name, big personality, media focusing WR1 that QB is going to have a hard time attracting top talents.

Much of the best of what we believe about Baker (8 weeks last year) happened against the worst 4 of the Top 5 Worst teams last year in addition to 2 other top 12 worst teams/defenses.

 

  

 

 

No one is reading all of this nonsense 😂