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2022 Coaching Candidates


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32 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

He's apparently a terrible interviewer.   Which ppl say, "hey it's only an interview" - but it speaks to their ability to get everyone on board as the top guy.   

As a contrast, Brandon Staley absolutely blew away the LAC FO with his interview.   Judging by his pressers and the in-the-locker room shorts we see, we can see why it matters so much.  It's meaningless without coaching talent but I think Toub is never going to sniff a job as HC.  Which is just as well - we've seen & lived through enough examples of "great coordinator, terrible HC" to go through another.

I gleaned the same. 

Vic even said he wasn’t going to prepare for the interview with us (his only one IIRC) and he still got the job. Really says something about our organization’s  “leadership.” 

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3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

2022 looks like a hot seat season for Kyle. And he might need to bet it on Lance. That’s a rough outlook. 

Does he get to 2022 if he’s posted 4 losing seasons in 5 years as head coach?? I don’t know, man. That’s a tough sell to the fan base. I wonder if Lynch/Shanahan felt their seats getting warm and picked the biggest project of a QB at 1.3 in order to gain some job security. ‘Hey boss I know the results have been terrible, but we’re the guys to maximize the most important asset on the roster.’

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4 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

Does he get to 2022 if he’s posted 4 losing seasons in 5 years as head coach?? I don’t know, man. That’s a tough sell to the fan base. I wonder if Lynch/Shanahan felt their seats getting warm and picked the biggest project of a QB at 1.3 in order to gain some job security. ‘Hey boss I know the results have been terrible, but we’re the guys to maximize the most important asset on the roster.’

Jed York has been through staffs like crap through a goose. Kyle and John, despite some of the returns, have demonstrated stability, have a good working relationship and are well regarded in league circles. No way they get dismissed this year even if the Niners lose out (which they won’t). And I’d be shocked, barring a complete collapse, if they’re dismissed after next year. Kyle, especially, wouldn’t be out of work for five minutes if he were let go.

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I will say with the two moves today, as well as what has been done since he took over, George is demonstrating that he will do what he can, within reason, to support his coaching staff.

These trades today barely register a scroll on the TV screen but they’re powerful messages in league circles. That, even if neither player makes a meaningful play for the Broncos, will buy Paton cred with future coaching candidates.

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Shanahan is tied to Lance now so he will absolutely get 2022 minimum. But injuries happen so they really cannot keep using that excuse every season. If they don’t make the playoffs next season then he definitely will be on the hot seat in 2023, he’s in his 5th year now at some point he has to actually win some games.

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10 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Kyle and John, despite some of the returns, have demonstrated stability, have a good working relationship and are well regarded in league circles. No way they get dismissed this year even if the Niners lose out (which they won’t). And I’d be shocked, barring a complete collapse, if they’re dismissed after next year. Kyle, especially, wouldn’t be out of work for five minutes if he were let go.

Keen to hear what you mean by demonstrated stability? Not really sure what that means.

Sans one season, the results have just not been good enough. They are trending in the complete wrong direction, and many who watch the team frequently are questionings Kyle's playcalling and the personnel usage.

Their roster right now just isn't good enough, and that's on the pair of them. Just look at their first two selections in each draft since they took over - very poor other than 2019 with Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel.

I am really not too sure why you hammer Paton for his Minnesota days and their lack of success (in your eyes),  but you revere Lynch and Shanahan despite their lack of success. I kinda get Kyle, given his body of work in his career in totality. But he is rightly getting hammered at present for the poor job he's doing right now.

They are both on the hotseat and rightly so.

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13 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Jed York has been through staffs like crap through a goose. Kyle and John, despite some of the returns, have demonstrated stability, have a good working relationship and are well regarded in league circles. No way they get dismissed this year even if the Niners lose out (which they won’t). And I’d be shocked, barring a complete collapse, if they’re dismissed after next year. Kyle, especially, wouldn’t be out of work for five minutes if he were let go.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if Kyle Shanahan's last name wasn't Shanahan, you'd be saying what you say about every other "hot coordinator."

What demonstrated stability has Kyle Shanahan shown? They're below .500 in their last 20 games. Mike Tomlin is an example of stability. Shanahan is trending downwards and is resting on the laurels of 2019 at the moment until proven otherwise.

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It’s always hilarious listening to the PR team (internal and external) do linguistic gymnastics describing Elway’s role with the team.

Paton is 100% the GM but Elway will be heard from on major decisions. Elway has one foot out the door but simultaneously oversees all football operations but ultimately Paton is steering the ship.

Translation: We recognize that the org braintrust is in decay and we need fresh blood but Elway is an icon in the final year of a HUGE contract so he’ll hang out for a year and serve as an impotent intermediary between a supposedly empowered GM and a dysfunctional lame duck ownership trust. 

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7 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Keen to hear what you mean by demonstrated stability? Not really sure what that means.

Sans one season, the results have just not been good enough. They are trending in the complete wrong direction, and many who watch the team frequently are questionings Kyle's playcalling and the personnel usage.

Their roster right now just isn't good enough, and that's on the pair of them. Just look at their first two selections in each draft since they took over - very poor other than 2019 with Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel.

I am really not too sure why you hammer Paton for his Minnesota days and their lack of success (in your eyes),  but you revere Lynch and Shanahan despite their lack of success. I kinda get Kyle, given his body of work in his career in totality. But he is rightly getting hammered at present for the poor job he's doing right now.

They are both on the hotseat and rightly so.

Oh I don’t disagree they’re on the hot seat nor that they shouldn’t be. I root for the Niners, I’m unhappy with what I’ve seen from them. 

When I say stability I mean organizational stability and continuity of system/message/approach/etc. Under York, the Niners have had the likes of Chip Kelly and Jim Tomsula as HCs, both were total fiascos. Jim Harbaugh was a good coach but also made everyone in the organization miserable. Kyle and John haven’t had the troubles the previous regimes have had and I think York and his business partners value that. 

I don’t think it is accurate to refer to my criticisms of Minnesota - a team that fits “the always a bridesmaid, never a bride” - as hammering Paton. I’ve routinely stated how Minny is a competent, professional, always competitive org that is absent drama while also one that has never gotten to a Super Bowl (under Spielman/Paton). That’s a very fair and honest assessment; tell me I’m wrong. 

What came out yesterday (from Klis during two appearances in The Fan) was  Paton and Vic are on the same level on the org chart, i.e., Paton is not Vic’s boss. The decision to retain or fire Vic (and any other Coach) has and continues to rest with Ellis and Elway. Paton is not a fully empowered GM; he and Vic both answer to Elway and Ellis. That model is not the norm in the NFL, though it is not absent (see SF) meaning my critique of Paton for retaining Vic & Co. proved to be invalid. Maybe that changes in March when Ellis and Elway both depart the organization when their contracts expire.

This team just needs to be sold already. 

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5 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if Kyle Shanahan's last name wasn't Shanahan, you'd be saying what you say about every other "hot coordinator."

What demonstrated stability has Kyle Shanahan shown? They're below .500 in their last 20 games. Mike Tomlin is an example of stability. Shanahan is trending downwards and is resting on the laurels of 2019 at the moment until proven otherwise.

I answered some of what you say in my reply to Lomax. 

But Kyle was not, when hired by SF, the typical a “hot coordinator,” - one that had success in one system under a great HC and/or on one with elite talent. Dan Quinn was a hot coordinator, Joe Philbin was a hot coordinator, Josh McDaniels was a hot coordinator - they rode the success of a winning team with HOF players under the tutelage of a great HC.

Kyle garnered enormous praise for his work not just in Atlanta (under Quinn) but also in Houston (under Kubes), Washington (under Mike) and, wait for it, in Cleveland (under Pettine). He worked under different head coaches from different philosophies with different leadership structures and with a broad range of players of varying abilities and strengths/weaknesses. 

Take the Browns for example. Cleveland went 7-9 with Kyle as OC, their best record of any season from 2007 to 2020. Despite insane organizational ineptitude, he got what he could with a severely lacking roster and HC who is now a “senior consultant”  for the Bears. The Falcons had their best years of the Ryan era with Kyle as OC, despite a “Patriot way” GM and a “hot coordinator” HC hire. Washington’s best years of the Snyder era came with Mike and Kyle, again, despite massive organizational ineptitude. 

Vic had never been a HC before getting the job here but he wasn’t a “hot coordinator” - he had success in multiple stops with different talent bases and under different HCs. Now, it’s clear he’s not HC material but he wasn’t hired because he had 1, 2 or 3 good seasons with a HOFers on his roster and an elite HC under whom he worked. 

Again, it hasn’t been all great for Kyle and and John in SF, and they deserve to be on the hot seat, but the pedigree Kyle had when he landed the SF job was an ideal one for a first-time HC. A “hot coordinator” hire he was not, at least not how I define the term. 

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3 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

It’s always hilarious listening to the PR team (internal and external) do linguistic gymnastics describing Elway’s role with the team.

Paton is 100% the GM but Elway will be heard from on major decisions. Elway has one foot out the door but simultaneously oversees all football operations but ultimately Paton is steering the ship.

Translation: We recognize that the org braintrust is in decay and we need fresh blood but Elway is an icon in the final year of a HUGE contract so he’ll hang out for a year and serve as an impotent intermediary between a supposedly empowered GM and a dysfunctional lame duck ownership trust. 

This might be the best post in the history of FF.

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