Staff Overhaul for 2022 - Discuss, debate, deliberate..... uh, d-speculate...

[dll2000]

17 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Not every year, but damn near. Winning is a tradition there, not an outlier. That's what I mean.

Since Chuck Noll took over in 1969 the Steelers have had only 3 seasons with 5 wins or less. His first 2 seasons and once in the 80s. They had I believe 37 winning seasons in that span and 5 .500 records. Since Noll's first winning season they've only had 7 losing seasons. 7 in about 50 years. That is what I mean by winning.

The bar is high there, meanwhile Chicago did the bar from 4 feet deep just to trip over it. 

Yes you see the same thing at every level of football.

College is obvious.  Recruits want to go to best place and it feeds itself.   I understand some players get paid, etc.   But its still best programs with best coaching that win.  

The HS with best local program wins and they attract talent and grow it.   It is no coincidence that same high schools will win most every year as long their program is running with same people.   

You can even see it at youth level which is largely a numbers game.   Are kids coming out or are they playing fall baseball or soccer instead or not playing anything?  The best run programs will win.

 

 

 

[topwop1]

On 11/1/2021 at 5:33 PM, dll2000 said:

Bears management and fan process:

Bears hire new coach and GM - everyone likes them in year one.   Optimism abounds.   

Questions start in year 2.

Year 3 people are split.

Year 4 most people are ready for change.

Year 5 pitchforks are out and active booing is happening.

Bears hire new coach and GM.

And on and on.  

If it was me give me Belichick and Josh McDaniel as package with McDaniels as successor.   Give Belichick 4 years as HC then retire and McDaniels 10 total.   Let them have total control of football operations.  Everything else can be Philips.

I don't think Belichick and Kraft really like each other.   It could be done.   Never happen, but that is what I would do.

 Barring that I would hire McDaniels and give him an 8 year deal and live with what he does.  Get off this stupid roller coaster.   That will also never happen.

We will hire some first year coach or mediocre retread and do the 4 - 5 year carousel again.

 

 

 

 

You're probably right. It's hard to have much confidence that George & Ted will ever get it right.

They'll probably hire some no name GM that's on no ones radar like they did with Phil Emery & Ryan Pace and try and pair him with an old retread coach like Jeff Fisher.

[AZBearsFan]

If it were up to me…

GM: Joe Hortiz - Currently the Ravens’ director of player personnel and DeCosta’s #2. DeCosta (like Newsome before him) is one of the best in the business. Give me the top available guy from that organization and I’m feeling pretty good about where I’m at. 

HC: Todd Bowles - What? Not an offensive guy? NOPE. I want the development of Fields to be the job of someone whose only job is the offense. And I love Bowles - he’s a hard *** coach who would come in with Super Bowl credibility and has the ability to maximize the talent on our defense which as we (hopefully) become a more QB-centric team will be all the more important.

OC: Bill O’Brien - HEAR ME OUT. BOB was an underwhelming HC and a dreadful GM. But that’s part of what makes him a great fit for this role - nobody is poaching him to be their HC any time soon so he brings stability for Fields’ development without the added need to manage the other parts of the game. BOB oversaw the development of Deshaun Watson into a mega superstar and he played a big role in that in the same way we need for Fields - by building an offense around what his uniquely talented QB did best. In 3 full seasons with Watson as his QB, his offenses averaged 25.1, 23.6 and 24.0 ppg, not stalwart, but also achieved that despite pretty underwhelming skill position talent outside of Hopkins (his top RBs were Carlos Hyde, Lamar Miller, Alfred Blue and Duke Johnson - yikes) and some pretty lousy OL. Coming in with what we have already on the roster he should be able to make our offense competent right away. He uses TEs well. He uses his RBs well in the passing game. He gets his mobile QB on the move. His passing game emphasizes vertical elements. If/when we’re able to add better talent I think he can help get the offense to be a top unit.

DC: Meh - it’s Bowles’ defense. Maybe just keep Desai. 

[dll2000]

7 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

If it were up to me…

GM: Joe Hortiz - Currently the Ravens’ director of player personnel and DeCosta’s #2. DeCosta (like Newsome before him) is one of the best in the business. Give me the top available guy from that organization and I’m feeling pretty good about where I’m at. 

HC: Todd Bowles - What? Not an offensive guy? NOPE. I want the development of Fields to be the job of someone whose only job is the offense. And I love Bowles - he’s a hard *** coach who would come in with Super Bowl credibility and has the ability to maximize the talent on our defense which as we (hopefully) become a more QB-centric team will be all the more important.

OC: Bill O’Brien - HEAR ME OUT. BOB was an underwhelming HC and a dreadful GM. But that’s part of what makes him a great fit for this role - nobody is poaching him to be their HC any time soon so he brings stability for Fields’ development without the added need to manage the other parts of the game. BOB oversaw the development of Deshaun Watson into a mega superstar and he played a big role in that in the same way we need for Fields - by building an offense around what his uniquely talented QB did best. In 3 full seasons with Watson as his QB, his offenses averaged 25.1, 23.6 and 24.0 ppg, not stalwart, but also achieved that despite pretty underwhelming skill position talent outside of Hopkins (his top RBs were Carlos Hyde, Lamar Miller, Alfred Blue and Duke Johnson - yikes) and some pretty lousy OL. Coming in with what we have already on the roster he should be able to make our offense competent right away. He uses TEs well. He uses his RBs well in the passing game. He gets his mobile QB on the move. His passing game emphasizes vertical elements. If/when we’re able to add better talent I think he can help get the offense to be a top unit.

DC: Meh - it’s Bowles’ defense. Maybe just keep Desai. 

Problem with that is whatever offensive guy you hire under Bowles, and I like Bowles, you will either lose quickly to a HC position or hate and want to lose.  

Think about it.  If someone comes in and lights Bears offense on fire where no one else was able they will be league resident genius and hot property immediately.

If someone comes in and it’s same old same old, then what good are they to you? 

Bowles is perfect paired with Arians.  You get two head coaches for price of one.  Something we thought we might get with Pagano and Nagy, except Nagy sucks and Pagano was collecting one more set of checks before retirement. 

[dll2000]

@AZBearsFanOh and Bill O’Brien?  
 

I give you credit for thinking outside box, but that guy left Texans in absolute shambles.  
 

He has a terrible reputation amongst players deserved or undeserved.   He is radioactive and not in good super hero way, in cancer causing way.  

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

@AZBearsFanOh and Bill O’Brien?  
 

I give you credit for thinking outside box, but that guy left Texans in absolute shambles.  
 

He has a terrible reputation amongst players deserved or undeserved.   He is radioactive and not in good super hero way, in cancer causing way.  

I mean if this is true (and from what I've read seems 100% accurate) then BOB wouldn't get the second chance even if he does well with Fields and the offense. Bowles was a guy i was big on too and I think he would own the team in a way that BOB either fell in line or got the boot. Moritz isn't allowing anything either. If his rep is trash with the players then I doubt its stellar with front office executives. I'd be shocked if he ever was a HC in the NFL again.

But... I'm so sick of this team I'd damn near hire Chucky if we could win with him. Lol. 

[AZBearsFan]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Think about it.  If someone comes in and lights Bears offense on fire where no one else was able they will be league resident genius and hot property immediately.

This makes me think you responded before you read what I wrote about BOB.

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I mean if this is true (and from what I've read seems 100% accurate) then BOB wouldn't get the second chance even if he does well with Fields and the offense. Bowles was a guy i was big on too and I think he would own the team in a way that BOB either fell in line or got the boot. Moritz isn't allowing anything either. If his rep is trash with the players then I doubt its stellar with front office executives. I'd be shocked if he ever was a HC in the NFL again.

But... I'm so sick of this team I'd damn near hire Chucky if we could win with him. Lol. 

Exactly. BOB’s reputation problem is as a GM in over his head and as a HC. I don’t recall anyone saying they had a problem with how he designed or ran his offense, and that’s all I’m asking him to do here. Nobody is ever putting him in charge of personnel again, and it would be years before he got another sniff at a HC gig. His only job would be to design and implement an offensive system that best fits Fields’ unique talent, which I think he can do really well. 

[dll2000]

36 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

This makes me think you responded before you read what I wrote about BOB.

guilty

But Watson hates BOB, Houston fans hate him, the league, especially players and media, hate him.   He would get no leeway or benefit of doubt, it just isn't happening.   

 BOB can only go to college or high school or at least can't come back to NFL for a long time.

 

 

[Heinz D.]

For what it's worth, Bears fans, there was a thing by a media dude--who has MUCH better inroads with the organization than most of them folks do--who is pretty sure that what @soulman has been hypothesizing may well turn out to be what happens. Phillips retires, Pace becomes president...we get a new head coach, and a new GM. 

[abstract_thought]

Hiring 2 guys who have already failed as HCs at other organizations… I’m not completely against the idea of a retread but I can’t envision many Bears fans being excited by Bowles and BOB. And the franchise would get dragged through the mud at the 1st sign of trouble.

[AZBearsFan]

9 hours ago, dll2000 said:

guilty

But Watson hates BOB, Houston fans hate him, the league, especially players and media, hate him.   He would get no leeway or benefit of doubt, it just isn't happening.   

 BOB can only go to college or high school or at least can't come back to NFL for a long time.

I don’t particularly care what the Houston fans think of him. He absolutely ruined their team with his personnel decisions. They should hate him.

I do care about the players though. To that, do they hate him in general, or do they just think he was dog **** as a GM (he was) and not want him as their top decision maker on Sundays (which he wouldn’t be)? Because if it’s just those things but they respect him as an offensive mind and as a play caller then in an OC role I don’t think it’s an issue. He’s not making personnel decisions or game management decisions as OC. He wouldn’t be involved with the defensive players or specialists at all. As to offensive players - what they want most is to succeed. If BOB can help them to do that, and he has a pretty strong track record that says he can, then why would they have a problem with him? The job isn’t to not be a gigantic tool or to win a locker room popularity contest. It’s to craft an offense that scores points consistently and maximizes the available talent. Nagy is by all accounts a great guy who people genuinely like, but he’s a **** play caller whose offense is by and large a colossal failure. Players will accept a guy they don’t necessarily like with success (and we don’t know that our guys would have the same problems with BOB as an OC that the HOU players did as a HC/GM), but they’ll readily move on from a guy they love without it. 

As to our fans @abstract_thought, our fans want success. They want Fields to reach his potential and be a stud QB for us for the next 15 years and to have an offense that’s innovative, accentuates our personnel strengths and produces points consistently. BOB can bring that IMO. The fans are going to criticize anyone we hire at the first sign that things aren’t going flawlessly anyway whether that’s BOB or anyone else. I want a guy I know is capable of getting the most out of Fields, and ideally for me for us to get that without them having to spend a disproportionate amount of time with the offense at the expense of the rest of the job of being HC. BOB is uniquely qualified to be that for us specifically IMO because of the similarities in skill sets between Fields and Watson. BOB without question wouldn’t be the most popular OC hire, but the most popular hire often isn’t the right one. Our current head coach is a great example of that. 

[Nads786]

I actually like the Todd Bowles HC idea. OCs are being aggressively pursued right now and we would end up with some edge person who had 1-3 years of success tied to an elite QB (Russell Wilson or Josh Allen). 

We truly don't know what Josh would have been without Dabol. There is a chance that Josh would have turned into the same player and Dabol is a fraud. Let's reference what happen to Joe Philbin after the Packers went 15-1 with an elite offense and he was terrible on the Dolphins. 

We could actually get a really good HC candidate who coordinates defense. Bowles coached a terrible Jets team without a QB. It's pretty easy to predict success in this league - do you have a legit QB or not?

[dll2000]

8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I don’t particularly care what the Houston fans think of him. He absolutely ruined their team with his personnel decisions. They should hate him.

I do care about the players though. To that, do they hate him in general, or do they just think he was dog **** as a GM (he was) and not want him as their top decision maker on Sundays (which he wouldn’t be)? Because if it’s just those things but they respect him as an offensive mind and as a play caller then in an OC role I don’t think it’s an issue. He’s not making personnel decisions or game management decisions as OC. He wouldn’t be involved with the defensive players or specialists at all. As to offensive players - what they want most is to succeed. If BOB can help them to do that, and he has a pretty strong track record that says he can, then why would they have a problem with him? The job isn’t to not be a gigantic tool or to win a locker room popularity contest. It’s to craft an offense that scores points consistently and maximizes the available talent. Nagy is by all accounts a great guy who people genuinely like, but he’s a **** play caller whose offense is by and large a colossal failure. Players will accept a guy they don’t necessarily like with success (and we don’t know that our guys would have the same problems with BOB as an OC that the HOU players did as a HC/GM), but they’ll readily move on from a guy they love without it. 

As to our fans @abstract_thought, our fans want success. They want Fields to reach his potential and be a stud QB for us for the next 15 years and to have an offense that’s innovative, accentuates our personnel strengths and produces points consistently. BOB can bring that IMO. The fans are going to criticize anyone we hire at the first sign that things aren’t going flawlessly anyway whether that’s BOB or anyone else. I want a guy I know is capable of getting the most out of Fields, and ideally for me for us to get that without them having to spend a disproportionate amount of time with the offense at the expense of the rest of the job of being HC. BOB is uniquely qualified to be that for us specifically IMO because of the similarities in skill sets between Fields and Watson. BOB without question wouldn’t be the most popular OC hire, but the most popular hire often isn’t the right one. Our current head coach is a great example of that. 

I don’t think they have that nuance.  Maybe BOB can coach and maybe your rational is 100% correct, but I think media and public opinion matters as it effects mood and attitude of fans and players.  Most people follow the crowd and those with megaphones dictate public opinion for most part. 

You can’t bring in a guy that is viewed, fairly or unfairly, as that toxic.  Remember a few conversations between him and players went public and were spun very negatively.  Those will be brought right back up in Chicago media at first opportunity.

More time has to go by.  It is too soon for him.  

Chicago won’t sign stud players with minor character issues or flags, they aren’t going after BOB.  

[abstract_thought]

@AZBearsFan I'm not even sure Bowles would be popular, mostly because he's a retread and a defensive guy. He's a good DC, but his Jets teams struggled on defense when he had to be a HC.

BOB is going to have an extremely short leash with fans, the media, and even the players. As soon as something goes wrong, watch the locker room turn on BOB because of the reputation he's built.

One guy with HC experience who is rarely mentioned is Vance Joseph. He led some stellar defensive units as HC of the Broncos and has now turned the Cardinals into a top defense in the league. He was a victim of horrible circumstances including an ownership change and the following QBs: Paxton Lynch, Kevin Hogan, Case Keenum, and Brock Osweiler. He's still young for an NFL HC (49) and just weeks ago won an important road game as the Cardinals' substitute HC.