2022 Senior Bowl February 5

[turtle28]

23 hours ago, taylor made said:

My thoughts on Second Round guys from the Senior Bowl: 

TE Trey McBride: I know we just drafted John Bates last year and McBride would be more of a luxury pick. McBride would be a great safety valve if we draft a QB in the first round. His height at 6'3" 1/8 is the only thing that concerns me. He wouldn't be my top pick in the second but somewhere in the top 5 I think

QB Desmond Ridder: I think Ridder is my favorite QB out of the second tier QBs (Howell, Strong remaining). I would like to see him put on some more weight and I hope he does well at the combine. If the team strikes out in Free Agency and the first round then I think RIdder could be option in the second round. I hope it doesn't come to that though. 

RG Scherff replacements - OL Zion Johnson and OL Darian Kinnard are going to be ranked very high on my list for second round players (if Scherff walks). Kinnard is an absolute mammoth of a man and would be most comparable to Brandon Scherff in size. 

I have Howell above Ridder but I do understand why you and @RSkinGM would have Ridder above Howell. I realize Howell’s height in an issue, but IMO if Howell was 6’3 like Ridder & Pickett or near 6’4 like Carson Strong, I think Howell would be the top QB in this class.

I also will always go back to the fact that Howell lost so much talent from his offense to the pros is last years draft - 2 starting WRs & 2 RBs who look like they’ll be starting RBs for the next 5-10 years for the Broncos (Williams) & Jets (Carter).

Howell put up 38 & 30 TDs in his first two years in college. Last year bc his passing weapons weren’t as good, he ran the ball a lot on designed runs and on scrambles. So, he had 11 rushing TDs last year on top of his 24 passing TDs, so combined he still had 35 TDs.

Edited February 10, 2022 by turtle28

[Troublez]

6 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I have a Howell above Ridder but I do understand why you and @RSkinGM would have Ridder above Howell. I realize Howell’s height in an issue, but IMO if Howell was 6’3 like Ridder & Pickett or near 6’4 like Carson Strong, I think Howell would be the top QB in this class.

I also will always go back to the fact that Howell lost so much talent from his offense to the pros is last years draft - 2 starting WRs & 2 RBs who look like they’ll be starting RBs for the next 5-10 years for the Broncos (Williams) & Jets (Carter).

Howell put up 38 & 30 TDs in his first two years in college. Last year bc his passing weapons weren’t as good, he ran the ball a lot on designed runs and on scrambles. So, he had 11 rushing TDs last year on top of his 24 passing TDs, so combined he still had 25 TDs.

Good math!

[taylor made]

6 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I also will always go back to the fact that Howell lost so much talent from his offense to the pros is last years draft - 2 starting WRs & 2 RBs who look like they’ll be starting RBs for the next 5-10 years for the Broncos (Williams) & Jets (Carter).

Howell put up 38 & 30 TDs in his first two years in college. Last year bc his passing weapons weren’t as good, he ran the ball a lot on designed runs and on scrambles. So, he had 11 rushing TDs last year on top of his 24 passing TDs, so combined he still had 25 TDs.

I've heard this before and I'd like to question it. To me, this isn't a plus for Howell. So once all his good supporting staff left him he can't produce without them? That just means to me that his running backs were making him look good. Both Michael Carter and Javonte Williams look very promising NFL RBs. This shows me that Howell isn't the type of QB that will elevate others around him but will need a good supporting cast to produce. 

[lavar703]

18 minutes ago, taylor made said:

I've heard this before and I'd like to question it. To me, this isn't a plus for Howell. So once all his good supporting staff left him he can't produce without them? That just means to me that his running backs were making him look good. Both Michael Carter and Javonte Williams look very promising NFL RBs. This shows me that Howell isn't the type of QB that will elevate others around him but will need a good supporting cast to produce. 

Wouldn’t that be the same for Willis then? 

[ripsean21]

44 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Wouldn’t that be the same for Willis then? 

I think Willis was held back slightly because the talent around him collectively. They do have some good talent on defense at a few spots. Willis needs obvious work. But if you redshirt this guy and really work through the season on a few things and add it to his legs you may have something. If you teach him how to not move into pressure in the pocket man this guy could really make a difference more with his arm. When Willis has time he will torch you and throw well. The SB showed he can look through progressions throw balls away and even keep plays alive that weren’t open right away.

He has all the gifts. If you really work on this guys fundamentals he can really be special. And I think I may have been wrong, I think he may be closer to the runner Lamar is then I thought. It’s more Vick style the way he runs then Lamar who has just a better feel then any QB while running. But I also think Howell is better then he’s getting pub for. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, taylor made said:

I've heard this before and I'd like to question it. To me, this isn't a plus for Howell. So once all his good supporting staff left him he can't produce without them? That just means to me that his running backs were making him look good. Both Michael Carter and Javonte Williams look very promising NFL RBs. This shows me that Howell isn't the type of QB that will elevate others around him but will need a good supporting cast to produce. 

He still produced, he didn’t have guys to throw to or they let him down so they ran him more on resigned runs and Howell delivered with 11 touchdowns.

Don't touchdowns count the same whether they are through the air or on the ground?

And you can’t watch Howell in the pocket and think that he doesn’t know what he’s doing or that he doesn’t have a good arm bc he does. In the Senior Bowl when he had time in the pocket on one play he went across the field reading coverage from left to right and got to his 3rd read the WR on the opposite side from where he started before Howell got hit.

He’s got tools to worth with, he’s definitely capable. I also don’t know why you can think a QB can be as successful w/o a talented WR to throw to. I mean would Baker Mayfield gone number 1 overall w/o CeeDee Lamb & Mark Andrews to throw to?

My guess would be no.

Kenny Pickett was not as good in 2019 & 2020 until Jordan Addison broke out as his top WR target. 
 

Matt Corral didn’t have as many gaudy passing stats but did more on the ground this year bc he didn’t have a WR w/ Elijah Moore’s talent to throw to.

A QB need talent around him to be successful, it’s the most dependent position in sports, you can’t be successful if you have guys dropping passes, if guys can’t get open or if you OL can’t give you enough time to find open guys.

Edited February 10, 2022 by turtle28

[turtle28]

36 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I think Willis was held back slightly because the talent around him collectively. They do have some good talent on defense at a few spots. Willis needs obvious work. But if you redshirt this guy and really work through the season on a few things and add it to his legs you may have something. If you teach him how to not move into pressure in the pocket man this guy could really make a difference more with his arm. When Willis has time he will torch you and throw well. The SB showed he can look through progressions throw balls away and even keep plays alive that weren’t open right away.

He has all the gifts. If you really work on this guys fundamentals he can really be special. And I think I may have been wrong, I think he may be closer to the runner Lamar is then I thought. It’s more Vick style the way he runs then Lamar who has just a better feel then any QB while running. But I also think Howell is better then he’s getting pub for. 

I think Lamar is similar to Vick as a runner bc of their quickness in short spaces, their elusiveness and their long speed - both 4.3 guys also.

To me Willis is more like Jalen Hurts. They’re both built like power running backs, not like scat backs or WRs in the way Lamar is and Vick was. 
 

I think Willis will run the 4.4’s somewhere in the 40 or even 4.5, Hurts is a 4.59 guy but he quick and powerful like an NFL running back.

[e16bball]

One guy who stood out for me in the game was Bo Melton from Rutgers. He looks like a guy who might have some interesting traits (suddenness, tough to bring down). He was in a really bad passing offense for years, but he showed a little juice. Late round flyer maybe, more of a slot option I would imagine. 

I’ve always been high on Jake Ferguson, the TE out of Wisconsin. He again stood out to me as a pretty interesting and well-rounded player. He gets after it as a blocker and seems to do a nice job of picking the open areas in the zone especially. Probably won’t be a burner, which limits him as a high-end receiver, but another guy who could make some John Bates type impact. 

[lavar703]

If we could come away with Rashaan Evans and maybe Mike Williams or Allen Robinson I’m free agency I’d like to go:

Round 1. Sam Howell

Round 2. Trey McBride

Round 3. Kyren Williams

Surround Howell with as much fire power as possible. Pickett won’t be available at our pick and Howell to me, is going to be good. Also, I think this team should explore a trade for Isaiah Simmons. He just hasn’t done well with Arizona and my guess is they start to phase him out. Buy low. 

[taylor made]

On 2/9/2022 at 8:18 PM, turtle28 said:

To me Willis is more like Jalen Hurts. They’re both built like power running backs, not like scat backs or WRs in the way Lamar is and Vick was. 
 

Willis reminds me of Kyler Murray when srambling/escaping pressure in the pocket. 

[offbyone]

On 2/9/2022 at 8:30 AM, turtle28 said:

I also will always go back to the fact that Howell lost so much talent from his offense to the pros is last years draft - 2 starting WRs & 2 RBs who look like they’ll be starting RBs for the next 5-10 years for the Broncos (Williams) & Jets (Carter).

If he can't elevate a college team, what are the chances he will ever be good enough to elevate a pro team?

[turtle28]

On 2/9/2022 at 5:55 PM, Troublez said:

Good math!

😂 I edited it but you caught the mistake before I did. I hit 2 instead of 3. I meant 35 TDs last year better receiving and rushing.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, offbyone said:

If he can't elevate a college team, what are the chances he will ever be good enough to elevate a pro team?

But he did elevate the team almost by himself. He had 3884 yds & 35 TDs, 800 rushing & 11 TDs which he mostly did of designed runs but some scrambles.

The QB can’t throw it, block & catch all by himself.

[e16bball]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:47 PM, turtle28 said:

But he did elevate the team almost by himself. He had 3884 yds & 35 TDs, 800 rushing & 11 TDs which he mostly did of designed runs but some scrambles.

The QB can’t throw it, block & catch all by himself.

In fairness, he didn’t have 35 passing TDs. He had 35 total TDs, which makes it a little misleading to then double count the rushing TDs. 

As I’ve said before, Josh Downs is better than either of the receivers they lost from the 2020 team, which certainly offset some of the loss in the passing game. 

And here’s the big secret that no one wants to hear: It was the same offensive line as the previous year. The exact same group. It was their third year together, actually. The center got replaced (possibly due to nagging injuries), but otherwise they were healthy and literally the same guys he was behind the previous year. I didn’t think they played well this year either, but I also don’t fully understand this desire to excuse all of Howell’s struggles on the passing game based on the nebulous and mostly anonymous “terrible offensive line” — those dudes were good enough in 2019 and 2020, let’s not just take the easy way out here and fully blame the OL for the QB’s inability to get the ball out on time when he doesn’t have a world class run game and multiple NFL receivers. He was bad at handling pressure this year, and I feel like he was also too preoccupied with trying to pull it down and run. Maybe to show that he could do that, for his draft stock?

I’m not anti-Howell, I think there’s stuff to be excited about if they take him. I don’t really want any of these guys, but I’d be pretty much equally okay with any of the top 4. However, I do think Howell’s supporters have a tendency to just wipe away a year of genuine struggle as a pocket passer and legitimate regression from a production standpoint on the grounds that “well, everyone left and he was suddenly surrounded by bums who can’t play.” That’s just not really true. They still had some talent — much of which had been there all along — but the whole offense took a step back, and Howell has to shoulder the blame for some of that. 

[lavar703]

@e16bballI think there’s legitimate concerns for all of these QBs. Kenny Pickett basically was good for one year. Willis was not good this year. Howell regressed. Corral? Who really knows with him. Strong looked dreadful at the Senior Bowl. Ridder is a question mark?