paul-mac Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said: Not sure I agree, to be honest. How many times has this actually worked? I.e changing someone who has spent at least a year in the league at ILB, then turning them into a pass rusher? As we all know, it's two totally different positions and different responsibilities. Browning didn't show much of anything as a blitzer last year, so we know absolutely nothing about his pass rush. I thought he showed flashes of starter potential as an ILB, so this move is very surprising to me. I sure hope we aren't sitting here in a year's time, hearing stories of him moving back to ILB after wasting a year of his development. I’ll be very annoyed if they are running out Singleton/Griffith/Strnad as the base 3-4 ILB next to Jewell while Browning is just a situational edge rusher behind Gregory and Chubb. Now, if the plan is to rotate edge rushers in dime packages when we only need one ILB on the field then I don’t mind Browning being included in that rotation. But moving to full time OLB would be a poor move. I wouldn’t be opposed to something alone the lines of: Base 3-4 DE DJ Jones NT Purcell DE Dre’Mont Jones OLB Chubb ILB Browning ILB Jewell OLB Gregory LCB PS2 FS Simmons SS Sterns RCB Darby Nickel DE Chubb DT Dre’Mont Jones DT DJ Jones DE Gregory LB Browning LB Jewell LCB PS2 FS Simmons SS Sterns NCB Williams RCB Darby Dime DE Chubb (Browning rotating in) DT Dre’Mont Jones DT DJ Jones DE Gregory (Browning rotating in) LB Jewell LCB PS2 NCB Williams FS Simmons SS Sterns DCB Ojemudia RCB Darby Assuming everyone stays healthy and we don’t make any more signings or get significant contribution from any rookies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said: Not sure I agree, to be honest. How many times has this actually worked? I.e changing someone who has spent at least a year in the league at ILB, then turning them into a pass rusher? As we all know, it's two totally different positions and different responsibilities. Browning didn't show much of anything as a blitzer last year, so we know absolutely nothing about his pass rush. I thought he showed flashes of starter potential as an ILB, so this move is very surprising to me. I sure hope we aren't sitting here in a year's time, hearing stories of him moving back to ILB after wasting a year of his development. If it's a full-time move, that would be really surprising. And agree it would be ill-advised. As I understand it, they want to see if he can play EDGE on pass downs (like Parsons), instead of being inside, like a Devin White (who does a lot of blitzing inside). It's not a common move at all (Haason Reddick was one of the other recent ILB/EDGE hybrids) - which is why it would be surprising if it was full-time as the plan. A lot can change come Draft Day, but it's pretty clear he's one of our top 2 ILB's right now. Singleton is a solid 2-down guy who's even better at ST's, but you're capping the positional ceiling. He should be a depth guy, and not penciled in as a starter over Jewell (unlikely) or Browning. Edited March 23, 2022 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Jackson's likely waiting to see if other teams will top Paton's offer. Can't blame him, this could be his last payday, if the decline we saw last year continues. Likely won't get more than a 1-year guaranteed deal at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Billy Turner is back. Another guy who can play RT or either guard spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said: Billy Turner is back. Another guy who can play RT or either guard spot. If we couldn’t get a top tier T FA - Paton did very well to get Turner. RT only (EDIT - he did play LT in a pinch) but also versatile enough to play inside if we needed it. And make no mistake - he thrived in Hackett’s O the last 3 years (and last 2 as their main RT). Big reason why the Pack OL didn’t miss a beat after they let Bryan Bulaga walk in 2020 - they correctly thought he could take over. The film and metrics both support this sentiment: He’s 30 and only signed for 1 year so we need a long term guy (esp with Calvin Anderson also only under contract for 1 year and not a given he can do it). So I’d expect we draft a project T. But this is another fantastic move by Paton. A+ off-season continues. Edited March 25, 2022 by Broncofan 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Really is the most complete offseason of adding personnel I can remember for this franchise. Adding a franchise QB + 4-5 starters + depth across the roster, all before the draft where they’ll have five picks between 64 and 115, in what looks to be a deep Day 2-early Day 3 group. Amazing work. Edited March 25, 2022 by BroncoBruin 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said: Really is the most complete offseason of adding personnel I can remember for this franchise. Adding a franchise QB + 4-5 starters + depth across the roster, all before the draft where they’ll have five picks between 64 and 115, in what looks to be a deep Day 2-early Day 3 group. Amazing work. What did we need entering the offseason: -Elite QB -RT -EDGE -DL -Slot CB -ILB Russell Wilson, Billy Turner, Randy Gregory, DJ Jones, K'waun Williams and Josey Jewell. And only Gregory/Jones were at top-FA rates, and Gregory more like 2nd-tier EDGE FA money (which is correct, given the risk). Obviously there's no guarantee this will all work out - but honestly, it's hard to see a better outcome heading into the draft, understanding that a higher-tier T or EDGE would have also cost a LOT more. To get Jewell, Williams and now Turner at incredibly good value, well it's a home run offseason Paton just by getting Wilson as our elite QB - but it's more like a 3-HR, career-night type of offseason. None of which guarantees next year will go according to plan - but you can't help but feel IMMENSE confidence in our team's future with George Paton at the helm. Elway deserves all the praise for his work from 2011-15 as GM - but as a year 1 / start of year 2 time period goes, man it's not hard to think Paton matched Elway's 2011-12 groundwork years. Edited March 25, 2022 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Pretty much frees Paton up to draft BPA with his 9 picks Edited March 25, 2022 by Cutler06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 And consider this - before today's signing, Paton had 16.8M cap space - 14th in the league. Turner's deal is only "up-to-5M", so I'm guessing it's probably 3-4M. This means that he'll still have 13M or so in cap $ space left. Which is around league average. And remember that because we don't have 1st round picks, and our first pick is 64th...well, the draft budget is a lot lower. So it allows us to add more depth if there's a need. And keep in mind that Paton hasn't really mined the cap maneuvering measures like extensions or voidable years. And that extensions are usually moves that reduce the first 1-2 years cap hits. So extensions on players we want to keep - shouldn't be a problem. Including the big extension for Wilson. Now, when we stop being contenders - for sure, we're going to have to eat a TON of dead cap - but that's the new reality of the NFL. If we're not contenders, that's more than OK that year....but it truly is a problem way down the line now. It's a very different reality Paton deals with now, than Elway had to deal with in 2013-15. All of which to say - if we're a contender, we'll be fine with cap management for the next while. This offseason kinda shows how flexible cap management can be. Paton couldn't go out and be reckless with hitting the top-of-market for every position, of course - but that's not sound GM practice in any era. And again - we'll be out of future cap hell if we hit another draft like 2021. That's not likely this year, but by 2024 we'll be back to full draft arsenal. So yeah, while nothing is guaranteed, there's only cause for optimism for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Some great quotes from Turner in this article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: Some great quotes from Turner in this article. There’s a long way to go in Hackett’s tenure as a HC and so many other facets to success but it’s a great sign players are that loyal to him. Edited March 25, 2022 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lomaxgrUK Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Great news. Turner's stint here in Denver coincided when I did the All 22 analysis religiously. I actually liked his play here at Guard, and was sad to see him leave. I thought he was at Leary's level by the end of Leary's stint here. Glad to see his career has panned out. Still, it's a 1 year deal. Don't be stunned if we still draft a Tackle in those mid rounds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) As Broncofan pointed out above - Paton has effectively addressed all the areas of need on the team - including getting a franchise QB - and I agree with the statement that Elway and Paton have faced two different situations - but both have done a really good job during those respective periods. Despite criticism that Elway rightly deserves for the post-SB era - he deserves credit for getting Paton, because that guy is rapidly developing a reputation that will see him as the best GM in the NFL. Edited March 25, 2022 by jolly red giant 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Our OL is looking pretty deep with the additions of Compton, Turner and Braden plus Anderson being brought back. Don't be shocked if some big name players don't make the team (Cough Glasgow, cough Muti) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, jolly red giant said: As Broncofan pointed out above - Paton has effectively addressed all the areas of need on the team - including getting a franchise QB - and I agree with the statement that Elway and Paton have faced two different situations - but both have done a really good job during those respective periods. Despite criticism that Elway rightly deserves for the post-SB era - he deserves credit for getting Paton, because that guy is rapidly developing a reputation that will see him as the best GM in the NFL. To be fair @BroncoBruin mentioned this first, but yeah it was literally the first thought I had after hearing the news, and I'm sure it's one shared by most of the diehards that follow here. It's just so impressive in addressing 5-6 needs and getting some of the best guys available, but not breaking the bank each and every time. Gregory's the one guy with the highest risk, but also has the ceiling to justify the risk, too (and the risk is mitigated with the changes to the weed rules on PED's). It's also a reminder not to get too worried if we don't see early movement in FA. Day 1 splash signings are great for headlines, but it truly is a 2-3 week marathon, and not a 1 day sprint (and it's usually only a 1-2 year solution, even if it does work out - why Elway had to keep hitting in his 2012-2015 window). DJ Jones was the one 1st day signing, and Gregory followed once the market made it clear we weren't getting Von or Chandler Jones at anything less than 20M+ AAV. Again, none of this is a guarantee that it all goes according to plan. But for what we needed, and what was available, it's hard to envision a better outcome. Sure, we could have snatched La'el Collins and be set for 2-3 more years, but we'd have also been spending more (worth it IMO, but the point is we needed to allocate resources elsewhere like NCB and ILB). As Gregory / Jones are the only 2 signings that go beyond 1-2 years, it does signal Paton's need to address 2023 depth with our Day 2 - early Rd4 5-pick trio. And while T / EDGE / DL are the key areas (TE & RB too, but I think you can get projects later in Rd4-6, esp for RB), Paton truly doesn't have to feel pushed by need to reach for someone. THAT is huge - it's clearly led to some of the biggest draft day 1-2 disasters we've seen (Carlos Henderson WR, De'marcus Walker DE, Langley at CB, and even when you go back further, Sly WIlliams at NT late Rd1). We should recognize that picks aren't a given, and they almost certainly won't have an immediate impact now that our roster is better both in talent and depth - but it's how we're going to remain competitive for longer, and not have to repeat Elway's "find value FA magic" over & over as our way of remaining relevant. Given how Paton fared last year with the draft, gotta have nothing but optimism that with no glaring holes, he can just mine talent. Edited March 25, 2022 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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