MrOaktown_56 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 hours ago, drfrey13 said: I am not saying he had a rough time last year. What I am saying is that the drop off was to much. He had a couple games where he came thru and played really good. I am not saying he sucks and we should cut him or not extend him. What I am saying is for the right package I trade him and if he wants $35 million that is too much. This is not me having a Frankie Cooper bashing session where I saw he sucks and does not deserve the money. I am saying he is good but he is not that good and if a SB is you goal you are going to need some extraordinary circumstances to get it with Carr. You are going to need to upgrade the defense drastically, upgrade Jacobs, upgrade the entire right side of the line, and get two very good outside WRs. You will probably have to do it with Moreau because Waller could start regressing soon and we also have a few talents that are going to be looking for big paydays coming up. I could be wrong but I think going in a different direction gives us a better chance in a couple years of being a contender. I am not trying to win next year because I do not believe we have the resources to fix enough of the problems. I really don’t think we need as many upgrades as you say. On offense we need a good receiver and 2 decent OL to go along with good coming back. You need enough to be able to compete in the tournament. There are about 10 teams like that every year. We should strive to be in that group. That is by far the most important thing. If we can draft better, everything will fall into place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I really don’t think we need as many upgrades as you say. On offense we need a good receiver and 2 decent OL to go along with good coming back. Good will be 31, coming off a torn ACL. He also has a 4.2 mil cap hit. I would pencil him for much of anything personally. Need a WR, sign a starting caliber G and draft RT high who can develop. As much as that sucks to say out loud, easier to get a starting caliber G on a cheaper deal than a starting caliber RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 5 hours ago, drfrey13 said: I am not saying he had a rough time last year. What I am saying is that the drop off was to much. He had a couple games where he came thru and played really good. I am not saying he sucks and we should cut him or not extend him. What I am saying is for the right package I trade him and if he wants $35 million that is too much. This is not me having a Frankie Cooper bashing session where I saw he sucks and does not deserve the money. I am saying he is good but he is not that good and if a SB is you goal you are going to need some extraordinary circumstances to get it with Carr. You are going to need to upgrade the defense drastically, upgrade Jacobs, upgrade the entire right side of the line, and get two very good outside WRs. You will probably have to do it with Moreau because Waller could start regressing soon and we also have a few talents that are going to be looking for big paydays coming up. I could be wrong but I think going in a different direction gives us a better chance in a couple years of being a contender. I am not trying to win next year because I do not believe we have the resources to fix enough of the problems. I don’t think that’s true, we were a play away vs the Bengals. That was with Waller at less than 100% and day Jones as our top outside threat, and a very mediocre OL. You don’t think it’d be fairly easy to upgrade from that? Shoot all we really need is to get healthy and find an outside WR. Not even asking for all that much. This ain’t a rebuild situation, which is why I think McDaniels took the job in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 5 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I really don’t think we need as many upgrades as you say. On offense we need a good receiver and 2 decent OL to go along with good coming back. You need enough to be able to compete in the tournament. There are about 10 teams like that every year. We should strive to be in that group. That is by far the most important thing. If we can draft better, everything will fall into place. Agree that if we hit on draft picks it will go a long way in fixing this team. We get Good back, who was one of my favorite linemen, and get a RT we still have to hope James is the player from the second half of the season and that Leatherwood will develop. We would still have very little depth. We have a lot of holes on defense and no depth. We need a #1 WR and hope others can develop. Half of our starters need new contracts by 2023. I have already gone over the cap and we do not have enough space to handle everything right away. We are not in a good spot and are asking the new front office to walk a tight rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Geezy said: I don’t think that’s true, we were a play away vs the Bengals. That was with Waller at less than 100% and day Jones as our top outside threat, and a very mediocre OL. You don’t think it’d be fairly easy to upgrade from that? Shoot all we really need is to get healthy and find an outside WR. Not even asking for all that much. This ain’t a rebuild situation, which is why I think McDaniels took the job in the first place. We have $21 million in cap but can make some June 1st cuts to give us some extra but we have a lot of holes to fill. Then in 2023 our 3rd best player behind Miller and Waller is Daniel Carlson. We will have a ton of cap space and I think that has more to do with McDaniels taking the job. We will be a blank slate for the new regime. So we are 100% going to be dependent on Zeigler and McDaniels to make the right choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: We have $21 million in cap but can make some June 1st cuts to give us some extra but we have a lot of holes to fill. Then in 2023 our 3rd best player behind Miller and Waller is Daniel Carlson. We will have a ton of cap space and I think that has more to do with McDaniels taking the job. We will be a blank slate for the new regime. So we are 100% going to be dependent on Zeigler and McDaniels to make the right choices. I don’t think they took the job to take a step backwards, especially with how McD fared in Denver. Mark has said himself this isn’t a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 32 minutes ago, Geezy said: I don’t think they took the job to take a step backwards, especially with how McD fared in Denver. Mark has said himself this isn’t a rebuild. 1 Kolton Miller LT 28 2026 2 Darren Waller TE 31 2024 3 Daniel Carlson K 28 2026 4 Alex Leatherwood RT 24 2026 5 Andre James C 26 2024 6 A.J. Cole P 28 2026 7 Trevon Moehrig S 24 2025 8 Bryan Edwards WR 25 2024 9 Malcolm Koonce DE 25 2025 10 Divine Deablo LB 25 2025 11 John Simpson G 26 2024 12 Amik Robertson CB 25 2024 13 Trent Sieg LS 28 2024 14 Tyree Gillespie S 25 2025 15 Nate Hobbs CB 24 2025 This is the roster for 2023 and Waller will not be on that deal so there is a choice to be made there also. So without counting Waller that gives me 3 players I am sure are starters on the team. That list is down to 2 if Hobbs can't keep his nose clean. Zeigler and McDaniels have a clean slate after 1 year if they want. Everybody is auditioning in 2022 because we do not have enough space to extend all players this year. These are the players I could see making the team next year that are under contract: QB Carr Mariota RB Jacobs Drake WR Renfrow WR Edwards TE Waller LT Miller LG Leatherwood Simpson C James RG Good RT TE Moreau DE Ngakoue Ferrell DT DT DE Crosby Koonce OLB Deablo MLB Perryman OLB CB Mullen Robertson S Abram Gillespie S Moehrig CB Hobbs We have a lot of holes and very little depth to go with very little cap space. That is 28 players counting special teams with at most $50 million in cap space. Lets say they draft perfectly and we get 7 players in the draft that make the roster. We would still need 18 players with $42 million in space. We can make it work but they have very little margin for error and we are talking about integrating 25 new players. You do not have to blow it up but this would be much closer to a rebuild than retooling because some of those starters should be replaced. This is also with no injuries and everyone keeping their noses clean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) I'd like Jack Coan as a late round QB. I think he looks like a classic coachable back up with some upside (though not tons of upside). I'd like him to replace Nathan Peterman, and Mariota can keep the athletic package role another year as I assume McDaniels has a package in his playbook from Cam Newton that could be tweaked. I really want to see McDaniels hire more staff I see other teams making moves and feel like we are being a bit slow assembling a staff (outside of Patrick Graham which was a great hire). Edited February 11, 2022 by Trojan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 On 2/11/2022 at 3:18 AM, big_palooka said: Good will be 31, coming off a torn ACL. He also has a 4.2 mil cap hit. I would pencil him for much of anything personally. Need a WR, sign a starting caliber G and draft RT high who can develop. As much as that sucks to say out loud, easier to get a starting caliber G on a cheaper deal than a starting caliber RT. personally don't think we need as many starters as many people think WR1 - sure, I think we can all agree RT- need RG- this is debatable. we can either bring back Good, or sign his replacement for 4-5m. He's not all pro, he can be replaced easily in free agency NT- Hankins doesn't make that much, I think we can find a cheaper/younger NT in free agency CB1- I think Hayward leaves with Bradley gone could Bring someone in but not pressing I thought Zay emerged as a solid WR2 and Edwards showed potential. Zay wouldn't break the bank either LG- Leatherwood going get another shot. Hope he becomes a stud on the left side with another year, back on natural side, and new OL coach. He has the tools, and work ethic. MLB- I think Perryman is going be just fine. He might now make the pro bowl, but the man has flying around sideline to sideline last year UT- I hope we can keep Jefferson. Man really came on to his element last year SLB- wouldn't spend much on a 3rd LB when the NFL is so Nickel based. Could bring back KJ or Morrow for cheap SS- Abram didn't suck so much last year. I could see him getting one more shot to prove his long term future so I see 5 pressing needs, and I would assume the first 2 picks will fill two of those needs. Which leaves 3 pressing needs in free agency. Should blow alot on money on depth, instead find nice deals. So maybe we can spend on JC Jackson or Devantae and then find deals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 17 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: personally don't think we need as many starters as many people think While you can't fix every spot in one offseason, there are a lot of holes and issues with depth. Oline needs rebuilt. Both G's and C are replacement level. Currently nothing at RT. WR, they need an X and Z WR. Let's stop lying to ourselves, Zay Jones is not a decent 2. DT - currently nothing under contract. Need another starting caliber LB. Secondary, I feel like they need 2 CBs. Mullen has never sold me personally. SS - Abram did in fact suck. The only difference is he sucked while being toned down so people were fooled. He can't cover and is to small to play LB. He's an easy trade piece this offseason. Get a late round pick and move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 17 minutes ago, big_palooka said: While you can't fix every spot in one offseason, there are a lot of holes and issues with depth. Oline needs rebuilt. Both G's and C are replacement level. Currently nothing at RT. WR, they need an X and Z WR. Let's stop lying to ourselves, Zay Jones is not a decent 2. DT - currently nothing under contract. Need another starting caliber LB. Secondary, I feel like they need 2 CBs. Mullen has never sold me personally. SS - Abram did in fact suck. The only difference is he sucked while being toned down so people were fooled. He can't cover and is to small to play LB. He's an easy trade piece this offseason. Get a late round pick and move on. I strongly disagree. But it is common place for fans to feel as the world is ending. We have a good young team all around with a few holes. We almost beat the team in the super bowl without a real coach, OL that sucked, no WR1, or Abram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) our depth isn't even bad if we Brought back some guys for cheap QB- MM one of the best QB2s RB- Drake, Richard, Barber, Ragas- really deep FB- Sutton Smith did his job WR- this sucks TE- Moreau, Helm, Bowers- solid T- Parker would be fine as a backup LT, RT sucks G- Simpson, dude from the Pats- decent, could use another draft prospect C- Martin- solid DE- Ferrell, Nassib, Koonce- can't get better backups DT- Thomas, Philon- great backups LB- Marquel Lee, dude from Ravens- decent backups CB- probably could upgrade depth S- probably could upgrade depth depth isn't that bad either if we bring guys back for cheap. I doubt any of the backups are going break the bank. Edited February 12, 2022 by Humble_Beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 Hell no to Mariota coming back. What a waste of money and time he was. It's nice having a backup but we can't justify paying elite backup money to a QB while we have big holes everywhere else. I'd bring in an old mentor journeyman over him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 2 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said: Hell no to Mariota coming back. What a waste of money and time he was. It's nice having a backup but we can't justify paying elite backup money to a QB while we have big holes everywhere else. I'd bring in an old mentor journeyman over him. if he comes for cheap, I would bring him back. It was dumb to make him the highest paid QB2. Gruden wanted to light a fire under DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 On 2/11/2022 at 7:56 AM, drfrey13 said: 1 Kolton Miller LT 28 2026 2 Darren Waller TE 31 2024 3 Daniel Carlson K 28 2026 4 Alex Leatherwood RT 24 2026 5 Andre James C 26 2024 6 A.J. Cole P 28 2026 7 Trevon Moehrig S 24 2025 8 Bryan Edwards WR 25 2024 9 Malcolm Koonce DE 25 2025 10 Divine Deablo LB 25 2025 11 John Simpson G 26 2024 12 Amik Robertson CB 25 2024 13 Trent Sieg LS 28 2024 14 Tyree Gillespie S 25 2025 15 Nate Hobbs CB 24 2025 This is the roster for 2023 and Waller will not be on that deal so there is a choice to be made there also. So without counting Waller that gives me 3 players I am sure are starters on the team. That list is down to 2 if Hobbs can't keep his nose clean. Zeigler and McDaniels have a clean slate after 1 year if they want. Everybody is auditioning in 2022 because we do not have enough space to extend all players this year. These are the players I could see making the team next year that are under contract: QB Carr Mariota RB Jacobs Drake WR Renfrow WR Edwards TE Waller LT Miller LG Leatherwood Simpson C James RG Good RT TE Moreau DE Ngakoue Ferrell DT DT DE Crosby Koonce OLB Deablo MLB Perryman OLB CB Mullen Robertson S Abram Gillespie S Moehrig CB Hobbs We have a lot of holes and very little depth to go with very little cap space. That is 28 players counting special teams with at most $50 million in cap space. Lets say they draft perfectly and we get 7 players in the draft that make the roster. We would still need 18 players with $42 million in space. We can make it work but they have very little margin for error and we are talking about integrating 25 new players. You do not have to blow it up but this would be much closer to a rebuild than retooling because some of those starters should be replaced. This is also with no injuries and everyone keeping their noses clean. meh you overthinking it. We have more bench players we could bring back for peanuts who are solid depth. Richard, Ragas I think is a fine RB3, S Smith, Bowers( kinda like Lee Smith, big blocking TE) , Turner or Stoner could be something, Patriots Lineman, Martin, Parker not bad as backup LT, Philon, Marquel Lee, Ravens LB, Nixon, Morrow possibly? Leavitt not a bad special teamer and 4th safety... all could be back.... you figure we have a 8 man draft class and maybe 1 UDFA makes the cut. not that many bodies need to be brought in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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