Stafford versus Rivers

[fortdetroit]

On 1/31/2022 at 12:07 AM, Soggust said:

The obvious retort would be that the franchise also got here with Jared Goff recently, but I don't wanna get stuck bashing Stafford, especially not to defend Rivers who tortured us for years lol.

I like Stafford and am cheering for him to get a chip. I just don't remember a time Stafford was ever considered the kind of threat Rivers was in his prime, despite Stafford always being a good QB. 

I wonder if there is a difference to how well Stafford and Goff played in the playoffs their Super Bowl years? 

 

Goff:

186 yards, 0 TD/0 INT 74 rating

297 yards, 1 TD/1 INT, 83 rating

229 yards, 0 TD/1 INT, 58 rating

 

Stafford (so far):

202 yards, 3 TD/0 INT, 154 rating

366 yards, 3 TD/0 INT, 121 rating

337 yards, 2 TD/1 INT, 96 rating

[Pugger]

On 1/31/2022 at 9:44 AM, biggie. said:

You don't get in the Hall of Fame by putting up pretty numbers with Calvin Johnson and mostly losing.

There are always exceptions -- Joe Namath: 62 wins, 63 losses and Sonny Jurgensen: 69 wins, 71 losses.  Right now Stafford is 86 wins, 95 loses and one tie.  If he wins this February why not?  I'm not advocating for his inclusion just pointing out that rings are not the be all and end all to get in.

[Pugger]

On 1/31/2022 at 8:59 AM, biggie. said:

Ok?

Did Stafford revolutionize the game?

Has he gone threw years of being considered among the league's best?

There are a lot of QBs in the hall that didn't revolutionize the game (whatever you mean by that...).

[Pugger]

20 hours ago, Bearerofnews said:

Rivers was considerably better than Stafford.  Rivers had 5 seasons with 100 plus passer rating. Only 5 guys have had more. He has had 12 seasons with 4000k and 6 with 30 plus tds.

The guys who picked Stafford here today.... I have lost a little bit of respect for them today and will look at them a little differently moving forward.  

Then that excludes me.  😉  I think both QBs are great but if Stafford wins a SB he'll get in before Rivers only because of a ring, which I don't really agree with.  IMO winning a ring is a team accomplishment.  A lot of things have to go your way and have a great team around you to win it all.

[biggie.]

5 minutes ago, Pugger said:

There are always exceptions -- Joe Namath: 62 wins, 63 losses and Sonny Jurgensen: 69 wins, 71 losses.  Right now Stafford is 86 wins, 95 loses and one tie.  If he wins this February why not?  I'm not advocating for his inclusion just pointing out that rings are not the be all and end all to get in.

Like moon, Namath is in because he a story attached to him and it led the AFL-NFL merger. Besides the Guarantee, Namath was also ridiculously talented.

[Ninersfan1984]

Stafford has been what the 7th or 8th best QB in this era so why should winning a Super Bowl make him a Hall of Fame? Does this mean Are we gonna elect every good QB who wins the Super Bowl? Does Joe Burrow become a Hall of Famer if he wins the Super Bowl and never wins another one? People really have low standards for the Hall of Fame I mean people want Rivers in who accomplished nothing but playing for a long time. I think both Stafford and Rivers are about the same player.

[x0x]

Stafford has time but Rivers by a mile right now. Thing with Rivers playoff career is his team let him down more than he did. I mean his last playoff game with the Colts at 39, his defense did jack against the other team and he loses by 3. In 2009 his kicker Kaeding goes 0-3 on field goals and his team loses by 3, his stats with 1 TD vs. 2 INTs might seem like he underperformed but that Jets defense was for real and go look at his counterpart's stats. Then you got 2013 facing the highest scoring offense in NFL history and he plays better than Peyton Manning but his o-line is suspect against a great defense too. Even still he did a mad rush and his defense lets three straight 3rd down conversions to ice the game.

Stafford doesn't exactly have the same kind of woes although the Lions did get hosed that game against the Boys for sure.

[El Ramster]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:44 AM, fortdetroit said:

I wonder if there is a difference to how well Stafford and Goff played in the playoffs their Super Bowl years? 

 

Goff:

186 yards, 0 TD/0 INT 74 rating

297 yards, 1 TD/1 INT, 83 rating

229 yards, 0 TD/1 INT, 58 rating

 

Stafford (so far):

202 yards, 3 TD/0 INT, 154 rating

366 yards, 3 TD/0 INT, 121 rating

337 yards, 2 TD/1 INT, 96 rating

Let’s not ish on Goff.. Game 1 the rams rushing attack destroyed the cowgirls. Sent them to the shadow realms. Game 2

he had massive clutch throws to put us in FG position… Saints had never lost a home playoff game in the Brees/Bounty gate era… 

 

Super bowl he did Shat the bed.. But to look at the numbers would be a bit of a disservice to Goff! Who did wear down as the season went on! But I simply loved how he played, he wasn’t scared.. He was just super limited as arm talent compared to the big daddy’s cannon… Goff made clutch throws to Woods, Gerald and Josh in the 4th against the Saints. Who were a stacked team might I add.. That team was stacked and juiced to the Gills! They were massive. 
 

Then you had prime Kamara whose never been close to that player.. He’s been open butt cheeks as of late. 

[Pugger]

On 2/1/2022 at 12:20 PM, Ninersfan1984 said:

Stafford has been what the 7th or 8th best QB in this era so why should winning a Super Bowl make him a Hall of Fame? Does this mean Are we gonna elect every good QB who wins the Super Bowl? Does Joe Burrow become a Hall of Famer if he wins the Super Bowl and never wins another one? People really have low standards for the Hall of Fame I mean people want Rivers in who accomplished nothing but playing for a long time. I think both Stafford and Rivers are about the same player.

Most here will predict Eli will get in because of his 2 rings.  But is his body of work in the regular season all that special or better than other QBs that came before him that are not in the HOF?  It is no coincidence that only 7 guys are in that do not have a championship in their resume.

[lancerman]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:15 AM, Pugger said:

There are always exceptions -- Joe Namath: 62 wins, 63 losses and Sonny Jurgensen: 69 wins, 71 losses.  Right now Stafford is 86 wins, 95 loses and one tie.  If he wins this February why not?  I'm not advocating for his inclusion just pointing out that rings are not the be all and end all to get in.

Joe Namath is currently used as the low bar argument for the HOF but he's a pretty bad low bar argumenHt. 

1. Okay we know he has a ring and a SB MVP. So let's start with that as the baseline and everything else is an addition

2. 2x AFL MVP. I don't think Stafford ever got a vote for an MVP

3. First Team All AFL, 3x Second Team All AFL, Second Team NFL All Pro. That's effectively 5 All Pros. Stafford never got one

4. 4x AFL All Star and 1 time Pro Bowl. That's 5 Pro Bowl equivalent selections. Stafford has 1. 

5. AFL All Time Team. He's considered the best QB by the analysts of his era for the entire other league. 

6. He led the NFL in passing yards and TD's in 72, and led the AFL in passing yards in 66 and 67. Stafford for all his stats has never led the league in any major stats. Namath also led the league in passing average twice. 

7. Has a Rookie of the Year and Comeback player of the year. Stafford has no superlative accolades like that. 

8. Namath was the first person in history to pass for 4000 yards. Dan Marino broke 5000 yards nearly 20 years later and it's considered one of the all time great seasons in history. When Namath broke 4000, it was an insane achievement in that era. 

So even if I spot Stafford a SB that he doesn't have (and ignore that no SB will really ever be as meaningful  league wide as SB 3), Namath's resume is a giant step up over Stafford in virtually every way. You have to unfairly compar stats nearly half a century apart to make a case for Stafford being more worthy

 

[Pugger]

22 hours ago, lancerman said:

Joe Namath is currently used as the low bar argument for the HOF but he's a pretty bad low bar argumenHt. 

1. Okay we know he has a ring and a SB MVP. So let's start with that as the baseline and everything else is an addition

2. 2x AFL MVP. I don't think Stafford ever got a vote for an MVP

3. First Team All AFL, 3x Second Team All AFL, Second Team NFL All Pro. That's effectively 5 All Pros. Stafford never got one

4. 4x AFL All Star and 1 time Pro Bowl. That's 5 Pro Bowl equivalent selections. Stafford has 1. 

5. AFL All Time Team. He's considered the best QB by the analysts of his era for the entire other league. 

6. He led the NFL in passing yards and TD's in 72, and led the AFL in passing yards in 66 and 67. Stafford for all his stats has never led the league in any major stats. Namath also led the league in passing average twice. 

7. Has a Rookie of the Year and Comeback player of the year. Stafford has no superlative accolades like that. 

8. Namath was the first person in history to pass for 4000 yards. Dan Marino broke 5000 yards nearly 20 years later and it's considered one of the all time great seasons in history. When Namath broke 4000, it was an insane achievement in that era. 

So even if I spot Stafford a SB that he doesn't have (and ignore that no SB will really ever be as meaningful  league wide as SB 3), Namath's resume is a giant step up over Stafford in virtually every way. You have to unfairly compar stats nearly half a century apart to make a case for Stafford being more worthy

 

I was just pointing out that there have been QBs with losing records who are enshrined in the Hall, nothing more.   I was not dissing Namath in the least.

[CP3MVP]

I don’t think Stafford is a HOF but guys like Warren moon Dan Fouts and even Sonny Jurgensen weren’t exactly “winners”

[El Ramster]

2 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

I don’t think Stafford is a HOF but guys like Warren moon Dan Fouts and even Sonny Jurgensen weren’t exactly “winners”

I think he gets in with a SB. By the time mahomes and others retire Staff should get in! 

Edited February 7, 2022 by El Ramster

[Mr Bad Example]

59 minutes ago, El Ramster said:

I think he gets in with a SB. By the time mahomes and others retire Staff should get in! 

Plus it isn't as though the Rams are gonna be like "well, it's been fun!" after this season, Stafford is the triggerman for a solid organisation that is aggressive about staying in contention. He could craft a pretty solid playoff resume with the Rams over the next 4-5 yrs. 

[El Ramster]

1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Plus it isn't as though the Rams are gonna be like "well, it's been fun!" after this season, Stafford is the triggerman for a solid organisation that is aggressive about staying in contention. He could craft a pretty solid playoff resume with the Rams over the next 4-5 yrs. 

yup. A lot of the main core is signed for a while.. Kupp is a super friendly deal along with Woods…. after 2023/24 things get tricky. Hopefully the dead cap hits from Cooks, Gurley and Goff are off the books.