2022 Combine Thread

[PossibleCabbage]

The team picking in the top 10 least likely to take a QB there this year is probably the team that also holds the 32nd pick.  Since all of these QBs are a lot closer to being worth the latter pick than the former.

[Scoundrel]

Just now, PossibleCabbage said:

The team picking in the top 10 least likely to take a QB there this year is probably the team that also holds the 32nd pick.  Since all of these QBs are a lot closer to being worth the latter pick than the former.

It’s the team with the first pick actually 

[PossibleCabbage]

Just now, Scoundrel said:

It’s the team with the first pick actually 

I'd say the Lions are less likely, but it's close.  Lawrence didn't show much, but the Lions do have the pick QB1 is worth this year (it's just not 2).

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I'd say the Lions are less likely, but it's close.  Lawrence didn't show much, but the Lions do have the pick QB1 is worth this year (it's just not 2).

Lmao this is just awful

[Scoundrel]

Something in here smells like cabbage and I want no part of it

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Compared to Jermaine Johnson and Travon Walker yeah he is, not even a comparison and not even close or on the same page.  There is a reason he did not run the 40.  Sure looked ok in the field workout but is pretty damn stumpy and is nothing compared to those two edge guys especially if one is thinking 3/4 OLB.  Also Ojabo will go ahead of him as well.  Boye Mafe out performed him and possibly could be drafted ahead of him also.  Nik Bonitto is another who is probably going to go ahead of him especially a 3/4 team which half the league seems to be now, he is a great looking athlete.  

That's a LOT of words to say that you aren't willing to admit you were wrong about Karlaftis.  Despite your opinion otherwise, he tested quite similarly to Travon Walker.

George Karlaftis: 6036, 266 lbs, 38" vertical, 10'1" broad jump, 4.36 short shuttle
Travon Walker: 6050, 272 lbs, 35.5" vertical, 10'3" broad jump, 4.32 short shuttle
Jermaine Johnson: 6045, 254 lbs, 32" vertical, 10'5" broad jump, DNP short shuttle
David Ojabo: 6040, 250 lbs, 35" vertical, 10'2" broad jump, 4.45 short shuttle

George Karlaftis tested as well as Travon Walker did at a similar weight, and he tested the same or better then Jermaine Johnson at 10+ pounds heavier.  The guy who was viewed as a freak athlete (David Ojabo) was remarkably pedestrian and he was 15+ pounds lighter then George Karlaftis.  The only reason you're arguing against Karlaftis is because you think he's going to post a bad 40 yard dash time, which quite frankly might be one of the worst reasons to "penalize" a player.  I'd be a LOT more inclined to be concerned about his 10-yard split then his 40 yard dash time.  There is NEVER going to be an in-game situation where a pass rusher is going to run 40 yards in a straight-line.  It's about evaluating their explosion, and Karlaftis did exactly what he needed to do today.  Would you have liked to see him run the 40 yard dash?  Absolutely, but I'm not going to penalize him for doing what's best for him.

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Travon Walker
40  4.51
Broad 123
Bench DNP
Vertical 35.5
Cone 6.89
Shuttle 4.32

 

Aidan Hutchinson
40  4.74
Broad 117
Bench DNP
Vertical 36
Cone 6.73
Shuttle 4.15

Don't know where you're getting Travon Walker's broad jump at.  It'd be a foot+ more then any other DL or EDGE.  He jumped 10'3".  Hutch tested better then him.  It's okay to admit that.  That doesn't discredit Travon Walker.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Karlaftis is a victim of a really good EDGE class. He's being passed by the guys in this class who have extraordinarily high ceilings. But he's going to make a team very happy. He's not bendy. That's his big weakness. But he's explosive off the snap, he's strong as an ox, he has the quickness to win inside and on stunts, and he has very heavy hands. When you add in his refined handwork (for a college DL) and diverse set of pass rush moves, I think he's an easy projection.

No, he doesn't have the highest ceiling. But he strikes me as like Chris Long. He'll have some double-digit sack years, but even in the years where he's not giving you 10+ sacks, he's going to pressure the QB a lot and help the rushers around him. As a run defender, he needs to play a bit more disciplined, but he'll be a plus in that department as he grows as a player. He's not the force that Jermaine Johnson is, but he'll stack his blocker and set a hard edge.

What I see is a guy who is going to consistently collapse the pocket and put OTs in tough spots. He saw a lot of double teams this year. He's not an Aaron Donald or J.J. Watt type player. He's not going to beat double teams with any sort of consistency. But if you leave him one on one, he'll get pressure at a high rate. But he likely won't finish at the rate the top pass rushers do.

Where is this notion coming from him not having a high ceiling?  Just because a player isn't a Brian Burns-like twitch EDGE rusher doesn't mean they don't have a high ceiling.  You pretty much hit the nail on the head with your evaluation with him though.  I'll take an 8+ sack pass rusher who is strong against a run then a 14+ sack pass rusher who is an absolute liability against the run.  He actually tested favorably compared to Nick Bosa.  Obviously, he's not Bosa.

[jrry32]

12 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Where is this notion coming from him not having a high ceiling?  Just because a player isn't a Brian Burns-like twitch EDGE rusher doesn't mean they don't have a high ceiling.  You pretty much hit the nail on the head with your evaluation with him though.  I'll take an 8+ sack pass rusher who is strong against a run then a 14+ sack pass rusher who is an absolute liability against the run.  He actually tested favorably compared to Nick Bosa.  Obviously, he's not Bosa.

Ceiling is guesswork. Karlaftis's lack of bend will make it harder for him to get the easy wins that the top sack guys use to pad their numbers. But Karlaftis is explosive off the ball and can get around the corner, so he's not inept in terms of finesse. Still, his game is more power and skill. Does that mean he can't be an elite EDGE? No. But I think it's less likely for him than the other supremely gifted athletes at the position in Round 1.

Of course, who would have thought guys like Terrell Suggs, James Harrison, or Jared Allen would have the upside they did. Who knew Trey Hendrickson and Za'Darius Smith were going to be such great pass rushers? So who knows about Karlaftis's ceiling? 

Relatedly, Michael Bennett would be another good comparison for what I think Karlaftis can bring to a team. He played with the same sort of power, heavy hands, and tenacity that Karlaftis does.

Edited March 6, 2022 by jrry32

[Scoundrel]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

That's a LOT of words to say that you aren't willing to admit you were wrong about Karlaftis.  Despite your opinion otherwise, he tested quite similarly to Travon Walker.

George Karlaftis: 6036, 266 lbs, 38" vertical, 10'1" broad jump, 4.36 short shuttle
Travon Walker: 6050, 272 lbs, 35.5" vertical, 10'3" broad jump, 4.32 short shuttle
Jermaine Johnson: 6045, 254 lbs, 32" vertical, 10'5" broad jump, DNP short shuttle
David Ojabo: 6040, 250 lbs, 35" vertical, 10'2" broad jump, 4.45 short shuttle

George Karlaftis tested as well as Travon Walker did at a similar weight, and he tested the same or better then Jermaine Johnson at 10+ pounds heavier.  The guy who was viewed as a freak athlete (David Ojabo) was remarkably pedestrian and he was 15+ pounds lighter then George Karlaftis.  The only reason you're arguing against Karlaftis is because you think he's going to post a bad 40 yard dash time, which quite frankly might be one of the worst reasons to "penalize" a player.  I'd be a LOT more inclined to be concerned about his 10-yard split then his 40 yard dash time.  There is NEVER going to be an in-game situation where a pass rusher is going to run 40 yards in a straight-line.  It's about evaluating their explosion, and Karlaftis did exactly what he needed to do today.  Would you have liked to see him run the 40 yard dash?  Absolutely, but I'm not going to penalize him for doing what's best for him.

Don't know where you're getting Travon Walker's broad jump at.  It'd be a foot+ more then any other DL or EDGE.  He jumped 10'3".  Hutch tested better then him.  It's okay to admit that.  That doesn't discredit Travon Walker.

He caught the ball like a freaking tight end too

[Scoundrel]

Let’s not forget Karlaftis is still 20...

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Ceiling is guesswork. Karlaftis's lack of bend will make it harder for him to get the easy wins that the top sack guys use to pad their numbers. But Karlaftis is explosive off the ball and can get around the corner, so he's not inept in terms of finesse. Still, his game is more power and skill. Does that mean he can't be an elite EDGE? No. But I think it's less likely for him than the other supremely gifted athletes at the position in Round 1.

Of course, who would have thought guys like Terrell Suggs, James Harrison, or Jared Allen would have the upside they did. Who knew Trey Hendrickson and Za'Darius Smith were going to be such great pass rushers? So who knows about Karlaftis's ceiling? 

Relatedly, Michael Bennett would be another good comparison for what I think Karlaftis can bring to a team. He played with the same sort of power, heavy hands, and tenacity that Karlaftis does.

I'm just saying this as more of a generality.  We hear all the time that these guys who are these freaky twitch athletes and their HUGE upside, and we completely ignore there's more to playing EDGE then being a freak athlete.  I remember looking at the board when the Packers picked a few years ago with both Rashan Gary and Brian Burns on the board, and those same posters would be burning Gute at the stake for taking Rashan Gary over Brian Burns.  The testing relative to their size is a HUGE part of the evaluation process.

[jrry32]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

I'm just saying this as more of a generality.  We hear all the time that these guys who are these freaky twitch athletes and their HUGE upside, and we completely ignore there's more to playing EDGE then being a freak athlete.  I remember looking at the board when the Packers picked a few years ago with both Rashan Gary and Brian Burns on the board, and those same posters would be burning Gute at the stake for taking Rashan Gary over Brian Burns.  The testing relative to their size is a HUGE part of the evaluation process.

I didn't like Brian Burns that much. I thought he played soft and was weak against the run. I don't watch Carolina much, but it seems like he's improved in that regard. Still, I do think bend is important for an EDGE. Can a rusher overcome a lack of bend? Yes. But it lacking that trait removes a highly useful tool from the toolbox. It gives you less margin for error. But having other dominant traits can certainly overcome it. And Karlaftis has other winning traits. I'm arguing he's underrated.

[FalconFan13]

Davis and Walker did even better than i thought they would and i already had high expectations for them coming into this.  The only thing i hesitate on Davis in taking him at 8 for the Falcons is if he can hold up to around 700 to 850 snaps a season.  He hasn't done more than 200 to 300 snaps so he is almost going to have to triple that at the next level to be a legit 3 down lineman.  If he can do that and stay as active as he was at UGA then he is for sure worthy of a top 10 pick.  Doesn't hurt that he reminds me a ton of my favorite player of all time in Big John Henderson either

Edited March 6, 2022 by FalconFan13

[KhanYouDigIt]

2 hours ago, PossibleCabbage said:

I'd say the Lions are less likely, but it's close.  Lawrence didn't show much, but the Lions do have the pick QB1 is worth this year (it's just not 2).

For ****s sake

[Ozzy]

8 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Karlaftis is a victim of a really good EDGE class. He's being passed by the guys in this class who have extraordinarily high ceilings. But he's going to make a team very happy. He's not bendy. That's his big weakness. But he's explosive off the snap, he's strong as an ox, he has the quickness to win inside and on stunts, and he has very heavy hands. When you add in his refined handwork (for a college DL) and diverse set of pass rush moves, I think he's an easy projection.

No, he doesn't have the highest ceiling. But he strikes me as like Chris Long. He'll have some double-digit sack years, but even in the years where he's not giving you 10+ sacks, he's going to pressure the QB a lot and help the rushers around him. As a run defender, he needs to play a bit more disciplined, but he'll be a plus in that department as he grows as a player. He's not the force that Jermaine Johnson is, but he'll stack his blocker and set a hard edge.

What I see is a guy who is going to consistently collapse the pocket and put OTs in tough spots. He saw a lot of double teams this year. He's not an Aaron Donald or J.J. Watt type player. He's not going to beat double teams with any sort of consistency. But if you leave him one on one, he'll get pressure at a high rate. But he likely won't finish at the rate the top pass rushers do.

Agreed he is a victim of a really good edge class, and he is getting jumped by multiple guys and jumped in a big way.  I had him top 15 preseason but after the season and after the combine that has changed and multiple edge guys have jumped him.  Thus he will drop in the draft unless he shows he is an equal athlete to them in terms of explosive speed on the edge.  Someone called him a 3/4 OLB a few months back, I did not agree with that then and do not agree with that now, he is not a good enough of an athlete and not long enough to play 3/4 OLB.