2022 Combine Thread

[RTTRUTH]

6 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Good luck to them. Walker is a freakishly gifted dude. But he's far from a sure thing. I'm not passing on Hutchinson for a guy who is all potential.

Kyle Hamilton is the best safety prospect I've seen, outside of Eric Berry, since Sean Taylor. Lewis Cine isn't a comparable football player. That isn't to say Cine doesn't have his redeeming values, but this is the time of the year that lead to mistakes.

That answers my question from earlier. Barnes indeed ran a faster 40 than Thornton.

Both from Baylor too. WTH they feeding those kids over there? LoL 

[Ozzy]

10 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

 

That answers my question from earlier. Barnes indeed ran a faster 40 than Thornton.

Barnes 40 time was impressive but the times I watched Baylor #12 Barnes never stood out to me at corner.  Ika, JT Woods, Bernard, Franklin, Doyle and Pitre looking back on it stood out.  Barnes he seems like a track guy playing football but in the NFL of today it is not as big of an issue as that used to be.  

 

Will be interesting how he turns out, 20 years ago no way a track guy like him could have played corner but clearly the game is changing.  Did he take part in the on field stuff?  If so I did not notice him much in the on field drills at all, honestly cannot recall if he even did them.  

 

A guy like Cam Taylor-Britt, sure gets beat at times but he makes plays and has a consistent tackling track record and seems to like the contact and likes being physical.   They made an interesting point during the broadcast, the Rams would find corners who cannot tackle and attack them in the run game with those in close WR sets.  Being physically still does matter even though most just want to play 7 on 7 all day in passing drills and not tackle much at all.  

Edited March 7, 2022 by Ozzy

[BrownLeader]

5 hours ago, Blue said:

Yeah the agility numbers are the real concern. That said, I believe those are the last drills of the day and almost nobody is putting up great numbers in the 3 Cone.

A last drill 6.90 3 cone for a 6'4 220 safety is a concern now?

On Hamilton vs Cine..

When Cine anticipates, he fires to the ball even faster and tackles better than Hamilton. And just overall he ranges better. 

Hamilton is more fluid with better ball skills.

To me it's like a bigger Justin Simmons vs a 6'2 Charles Godfrey. ...bit of an edge to the better playmaker.

But I've a feeling I might end up liking Pitre and Hill better than either.

Edited March 7, 2022 by BrownLeader

[Blue]

12 hours ago, RTTRUTH said:

Both from Baylor too. WTH they feeding those kids over there? LoL 

I just enjoy the fact that (I believe) the three fastest 40 times were all from Texas schools and none of them went to UT. Texas being unable to identify, recruit, or develop top talent over the past 15 years is really impressive in the worst way imaginable.

[MSURacerDT55]

12 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Good luck to them. Walker is a freakishly gifted dude. But he's far from a sure thing. I'm not passing on Hutchinson for a guy who is all potential.

I disagree, he isn't all potential, he has skills he can use right now, his run fits are damn near elite right now. He can come play base downs right now, why do you think teams are buzzing about him, he played in an odd front and wasn't asked to do the things he would normally would in an even front. Do you realize if he were in an even front, he would be contending for the best End in this class, And why is he far from a sure thing? Did he just flash with a few plays here and there? No, he dominated the edge in the run game all year for the one of the best defensive fronts of all time and played his best in the biggest stage against elite competition unlike Hutchinson.

For some reason I think Walker is being underrated and taken for granted instead of people really sitting down and objectively looking at his accomplishments the same way they just blindly give Hutchinson the benefit of the doubt.

Edited March 7, 2022 by MSURacerDT55

[.Buzz]

15 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I disagree, he isn't all potential, he has skills he can use right now, his run fits are damn near elite right now. He can come play base downs right now, why do you think teams are buzzing about him, he played in an odd front and wasn't asked to do the things he would normally would in an even front. Do you realize if he were in an even front, he would be contending for the best End in this class, And why is he far from a sure thing? Did he just flash with a few plays here and there? No, he dominated the edge in the run game all year for the one of the best defensive fronts of all time and played his best in the biggest stage against elite competition unlike Hutchinson.

For some reason I think Walker is being underrated and taken for granted instead of people really sitting down and objectively looking at his accomplishments the same way they just blindly give Hutchinson the benefit of the doubt.

Great run stuffers aren’t getting drafted high, especially along the DL/from an edge position. You get drafted high by being able to get after the passer, something Walker looks to be very raw at. Just because he wasn’t asked to do it on a consistent basis shouldn’t mean we just assume when you stick him out there full time and with his athletic traits it’s just figured out. It’s an art and something that takes time to develop (if it’s even developed at all). In the times he was asked to get after it on 3rd down, personally I was very underwhelmed.

Hutch has his issues with bend and his arm length is less than you’d ideally want, but he’s gifted from a pass rush perspective and likely comes into the league and gets after it fairly quickly. He proved this weekend to have special athletic traits as well, even if (as I’ve said), it didn’t silence my worries based on just watching it with my eyes. That 3-cone especially.

Walker is a very good prospect and likely gets taken in the top 20 imo, not really sure how that’s being overlooked tbh. He isn’t nearly as refined as a pass rusher where he should be considered over Hutch or Thibs (and I’d personally rather have Jermaine Johnson as well).

[THE DUKE]

On 3/5/2022 at 6:17 PM, ronjon1990 said:

Jack Coan is one of my favorite QBs in this class. 

Obviously not a first rounder, obviously not a star, but he reminds me of one of those guys that could wind up starting and being too good for someone to simply beat out with ease. 

If the Raiders somehow move Mariota out, I would love Coan being picked mid-late as a project. 

Coan is who I want as the Bengals long term Burrow backup.  If he can be had in rd 6 or 7.

[MSURacerDT55]

4 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Great run stuffers aren’t getting drafted high, especially along the DL/from an edge position. You get drafted high by being able to get after the passer, something Walker looks to be very raw at. Just because he wasn’t asked to do it on a consistent basis shouldn’t mean we just assume when you stick him out there full time and with his athletic traits it’s just figured out. It’s an art and something that takes time to develop (if it’s even developed at all). In the times he was asked to get after it on 3rd down, personally I was very underwhelmed.

Hutch has his issues with bend and his arm length is less than you’d ideally want, but he’s gifted from a pass rush perspective and likely comes into the league and gets after it fairly quickly. He proved this weekend to have special athletic traits as well, even if (as I’ve said), it didn’t silence my worries based on just watching it with my eyes. That 3-cone especially.

Walker is a very good prospect and likely gets taken in the top 20 imo, not really sure how that’s being overlooked tbh. He isn’t nearly as refined as a pass rusher where he should be considered over Hutch or Thibs (and I’d personally rather have Jermaine Johnson as well).

The only thing I'll tell you is these teams and front offices are all about projection, we all should know that. Its not about where you are currently, they have position coaches who get paid handsomely to coach you up, one of the biggest testaments of this was (then) Jayson Oweh, we (including me) all bashed him for not being "refined" and being raw and what happened, he looks like he could be one of the better young pass rushers in the league moving forward. 

That organization said they see him as a elite physical talent, and we feel we can mold him into a monster, this is a very real strategy, the same thing with Josh Allen at QB. You do realize that some guys peak in College, and some guys best football is ahead of them. 

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

The only thing I'll tell you is these teams and front offices are all about projection, we all should know that. Its not about where you are currently, they have position coaches who get paid handsomely to coach you up, one of the biggest testaments of this was (then) Jayson Oweh, we (including me) all bashed him for not being "refined" and being raw and what happened, he looks like he could be one of the better young pass rushers in the league moving forward. 

That organization said they see him as a elite physical talent, and we feel we can mold him into a monster, this is a very real strategy, the same thing with Josh Allen at QB. You do realize that some guys peak in College, and some guys best football is ahead of them. 

Oh I don’t disagree at all, I’m just saying I’ve seen way too many guys who lacked much of a plan as a pass rusher in college with little production to fall for it over guys like Hutch, Thibs, or Johnson. 
 

A team may do it, but I think it’s a dumb risk to take if one of those other 3 are on the board. All 3 of those guys, even with their questions/flaws, are much better value/risks imo.

Also, Oweh didn’t have the production and I had my reservations, but I still saw the pass rush ability on tape. He also went right around where I would have expected/can get behind.

[MSURacerDT55]

10 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Oh I don’t disagree at all, I’m just saying I’ve seen way too many guys who lacked much of a plan as a pass rusher in college with little production to fall for it over guys like Hutch, Thibs, or Johnson. 
 

A team may do it, but I think it’s a dumb risk to take if one of those other 3 are on the board. All 3 of those guys, even with their questions/flaws, are much better value/risks imo.

Also, Oweh didn’t have the production and I had my reservations, but I still saw the pass rush ability on tape. He also went right around where I would have expected/can get behind.

Hutch and Thibs aren't slam dunks either.

 

 

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Hutch and Thibs aren't slam dunks either.

 

 

Never said they were. 

[Daniel]

I've warmed on Hutchinson after a good showing at the Combine, but I still think, even if he is the best pass rusher in this class, he's not a guy who's on par with a Chase Young, or Nick Bosa, or even Bradley Chubb.

He's like the next step down, a very good prospect IMO.  There are elite prospects at other positions, so I'm confused as to why a just very good DE is presumptively the first overall pick.

But maybe I'm just too bearish on Hutch.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

He's like the next step down, a very good prospect IMO.  There are elite prospects at other positions, so I'm confused as to why a just very good DE is presumptively the first overall pick.

Fair take 

[jrry32]

13 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I disagree, he isn't all potential, he has skills he can use right now, his run fits are damn near elite right now. He can come play base downs right now, why do you think teams are buzzing about him, he played in an odd front and wasn't asked to do the things he would normally would in an even front. Do you realize if he were in an even front, he would be contending for the best End in this class, And why is he far from a sure thing? Did he just flash with a few plays here and there? No, he dominated the edge in the run game all year for the one of the best defensive fronts of all time and played his best in the biggest stage against elite competition unlike Hutchinson.

For some reason I think Walker is being underrated and taken for granted instead of people really sitting down and objectively looking at his accomplishments the same way they just blindly give Hutchinson the benefit of the doubt.

Agree with Buzz. You're not taking a dude at #2 to defend the run. Go to the second page of the Pound the Table thread. Look at my post from January 15th. You'll see Travon Walker in it. That was when he was a fringe first round pick in most mocks. He was underrated at that point by a mile. But taking him over Hutchinson? That's a mistake.

I don't give anybody the benefit of the doubt. I go off of film. Are you going to honestly tell me that Travon Walker has polished hand usage, a deep set of pass rush moves, developed pass rush plans, and times the snap well?

Why is he far from a sure thing? Because he's not a polished pass rusher. You're not drafting him to be an elite run defender who picks up five to eight sacks per year at #2 overall. How much Walker's pass rush will develop from here is pure guesswork. He has all the tools to be dominant. But he wouldn't be the first guy who has all the tools to not grow in the NFL the way teams were hoping.

I mentioned this in the Lions forum, but this discussion reminds me of a debate on the Rams board back in 2014. Some people preferred that we draft Greg Robinson. He was a freakishly gifted human with immense upside who had the potential to be the next Willie Roaf, but he also had some glaring technical flaws. Some people, including myself, preferred we draft Jake Matthews. Matthews was a polished, skilled prospect with very good athleticism. He looked to be a safe pick who didn't have the potential to be an elite LT, but he seemed a safe bet to be a quality starter.

The Rams picked Greg Robinson. Jake Matthews has gone on to have a long career as a quality starting LT. Greg Robinson flamed out. I think Hutchinson has more upside than Matthews did, and Travon Walker doesn't appear to have the character issues that Greg Robinson clearly did (in hindsight). But my point here is that the Lions shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. Hutchinson is an easy evaluation. He has the ability to be a 10+ sack per year EDGE. Why pass on a guy like that for a different EDGE who could be a HOFer (or at least a Cam Jordan) but could also be a Vernon Gholston? 

Don't outsmart yourself. Trust the film. If you think Travon Walker is a better player on film, more power to you. If you think Travon Walker will be a better player based on film, more power to you. I think Hutchinson is the better player on film, and I think Walker is too difficult of an evaluation to say with confidence that he'll become a better player than Hutchinson.

[jrry32]

13 hours ago, Daniel said:

I've warmed on Hutchinson after a good showing at the Combine, but I still think, even if he is the best pass rusher in this class, he's not a guy who's on par with a Chase Young, or Nick Bosa, or even Bradley Chubb.

He's like the next step down, a very good prospect IMO.  There are elite prospects at other positions, so I'm confused as to why a just very good DE is presumptively the first overall pick.

But maybe I'm just too bearish on Hutch.

He's not presumptively the #1 pick. Most people think the Jags go a different direction. Hutchinson is presumptively the #2 pick because he fits a huge need for Detroit, he's arguably the best prospect in the Draft, and he's a Michigan guy. I think Aidan Hutchinson is certainly on par with Bradley Chubb. He's a slight step down from Nick Bosa.