abstract_thought Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: 4 years from now the salary cap will be like $270M. I think the rookie deal thing for QBs at that point will be less of a factor than it is now. Not a nothing, but there’ll be enough wiggle room that it won’t keep us from doing what we want. Especially if Poles is able to hold to his plan and keep the team stocked with talent via the draft. Salaries will grow with the cap. As long as this CBA exists, rookie QB deals will be a huge factor in building championship teams. Don't get me wrong - I like this trade. I'm pretty convinced Poles is making the best of the Bears' situation. If the Bears want to build a contender during Fields' rookie deal, they need to do the same with Quinn and Jackson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: Wouldn’t surprise me in the least if we traded back from one of our 2nd rounders to add another pick in round 3/4. For me we need to have 4 picks in the top 100...that let's you attack WR, OL, CB & DL...receiver, corner and the defensive line are all super deep this season...you keep Daniels &/or add another 1 or 2 solid vets upfront you can then go BPA at those 4 positions and have guys who should be instant starters...got to find a way to turn one of those 2nd round picks into another 3rd IMO...after that any more draft resources that come off the back of that will also factor into the Mack trade IMO... Would love to see something like WR at #48...get down into the 50s for an OL and pick up that 3rd & a 4th even if it takes multiple smaller trades down...with the two picks in the 3rd round go CB/DL then with the 4th double down with BPA at one of those spots... Now of course that could all change over the next few weeks with FA but for me that is a solid strategy to help Fields with two starting calibre players then come back round for a starting CB and a DL who will then be part of the rotation upfront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: 4 years from now the salary cap will be like $270M. I think the rookie deal thing for QBs at that point will be less of a factor than it is now. Not a nothing, but there’ll be enough wiggle room that it won’t keep us from doing what we want. Especially if Poles is able to hold to his plan and keep the team stocked with talent via the draft. Its already a bit of a fallacy. Its just something bad GMs/Front Offices lean on because they dont know how to actually build a roster through the draft and smart signings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: To be fair, the Mack move was a calculated gamble that Mitch was going to be a franchise QB. If he had been then things with Mack would possibly have turned out far differently and we probably don’t trade him today. Had Pace understood that once Mitch was a miss that that potential championship window was closed and acted accordingly he might still have a job (ideally not, but maybe). Alas, he couldn’t, and he’s gone. Poles’ immediate recognition both that his job is to create the next potential championship window rather than trying to salvage the closed one and that Mack was more valuable in helping to create that window by being sent elsewhere for draft capital and cap space is extremely nice to see. Now we just have to hope he’s got a better hit rate than his predecessor. I was just going to say something similar. Following 2018 the assumption was MT and offense was going to take a large leap forward and defense was going to be even better. It was a SB piece in theory. Didn’t work out that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 51 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I was just going to say something similar. Following 2018 the assumption was MT and offense was going to take a large leap forward and defense was going to be even better. It was a SB piece in theory. Didn’t work out that way. Betting that Nagy could field and effective offense was part of the "oops" as well. Makes you wonder if other teams who might be on the fance about firing coaches and GMs might look at the Bears over the last 2 years and say "nope, don't want any of that!" where we had staff trying to eke out another win or two to save jobs while essentially guaranteeing that no matter who's in charge the next year is going to be a waste. Do have to say that Nagy managed to waste last year in truly comprehensive fashion. If there are no other huge subtractions, it seems like they will use 2023 cap space to make a big move or two. Really comes down to what they think of the young tackles. I think if they like Jenkins and Borom both, you'll see a big FA WR signing (who I can't imagine as there are no surefire studs out there besides maybe Cooper.) If they're not sold on them (and I'm not) I bet we'll see a tackle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 31 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Betting that Nagy could field and effective offense was part of the "oops" as well. Makes you wonder if other teams who might be on the fance about firing coaches and GMs might look at the Bears over the last 2 years and say "nope, don't want any of that!" where we had staff trying to eke out another win or two to save jobs while essentially guaranteeing that no matter who's in charge the next year is going to be a waste. Do have to say that Nagy managed to waste last year in truly comprehensive fashion. If there are no other huge subtractions, it seems like they will use 2023 cap space to make a big move or two. Really comes down to what they think of the young tackles. I think if they like Jenkins and Borom both, you'll see a big FA WR signing (who I can't imagine as there are no surefire studs out there besides maybe Cooper.) If they're not sold on them (and I'm not) I bet we'll see a tackle. I think Pace is a pretty decent scout. But his failure to recognize good coaching was a problem. It is hard to tell from just watching games. You can tell from total package which he was a part of. I was so jacked about that season I went to training camp that year and ended up sitting with a bunch of HS coaches. I was by myself and thinking I was not liking what I was seeing. They were saying it aloud to each other. If you have coached in a good program or worked with a truly good coach, you just know good coaching and good practicing when you see it or you should. And that wasn’t it. Not being used to pro coaching I just wrote it off at time as pro coaches don’t teach muchas these guys know what they doing. But after a bit I realized that’s nonsense. A coach is just another word for teacher. Their practices contained a lot of waste. The whole idea of program coaching is eliminating as much waste as possible so you are gaining ground at a faster pace than opponents with time allotted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 40 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Betting that Nagy could field and effective offense was part of the "oops" as well. Makes you wonder if other teams who might be on the fance about firing coaches and GMs might look at the Bears over the last 2 years and say "nope, don't want any of that!" where we had staff trying to eke out another win or two to save jobs while essentially guaranteeing that no matter who's in charge the next year is going to be a waste. Do have to say that Nagy managed to waste last year in truly comprehensive fashion. If there are no other huge subtractions, it seems like they will use 2023 cap space to make a big move or two. Really comes down to what they think of the young tackles. I think if they like Jenkins and Borom both, you'll see a big FA WR signing (who I can't imagine as there are no surefire studs out there besides maybe Cooper.) If they're not sold on them (and I'm not) I bet we'll see a tackle. My money is on at least one early FA addition on the OL and one at WR, plus secondary moves there. Not the top guy, but in that next tier. You can’t posture a swing toward building the future of your team around a 23-year old 2nd year QB and not invest in what gives him the best chance to succeed. Poles said as much in saying (paraphrased) they need to do everything they can to set him up to succeed. Then something of a capable player at CB. Because c’mon. I think we sign a nickel to a multi-year deal and draft for a long term boundary corner, and sign a vet 2022 insurance plan for that player later on (maybe even post-draft). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Ryan Pace truly was a salary cap terrorist. He was a huge clown. Ryan Pace was a salary cap animal. The amount of bad money he left to build a 6 win team should ensure he never is a GM again. 2022 Cap Space Wasted Mack: 12 million added in dead money Quinn: 3.5 million in dead added Dalton: 5 Graham: 4.5 Leno: 2.5 Ifedi and Gipson: 2.5 Whitehair: 4.4 million Trevathan: guaranteed 9 million this season 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: My money is on at least one early FA addition on the OL and one at WR, plus secondary moves there. Not the top guy, but in that next tier. You can’t posture a swing toward building the future of your team around a 23-year old 2nd year QB and not invest in what gives him the best chance to succeed. Poles said as much in saying (paraphrased) they need to do everything they can to set him up to succeed. Then something of a capable player at CB. Because c’mon. I think we sign a nickel to a multi-year deal and draft for a long term boundary corner, and sign a vet 2022 insurance plan for that player later on (maybe even post-draft). I think that if you triangulate what he said about playmaker being the best friend a young QB could have (paraphrasing, we're all doing it), the fact that we have ONE wr aboard that's any good, and a general focus on getting team scoring to 1989 levels, it all points at big WR signing, however that guy ain't actually there. All the guys available are either more like WR2, specialist guys, hurt, or Allen Robinson. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if ARob ended up being our big signing, especially if they can somehow get the number he wants but tied to performance targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 23 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: I think that if you triangulate what he said about playmaker being the best friend a young QB could have (paraphrasing, we're all doing it), the fact that we have ONE wr aboard that's any good, and a general focus on getting team scoring to 1989 levels, it all points at big WR signing, however that guy ain't actually there. All the guys available are either more like WR2, specialist guys, hurt, or Allen Robinson. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if ARob ended up being our big signing, especially if they can somehow get the number he wants but tied to performance targets. Signing a guy who’s an established legit WR2 to a multi-year deal wouldn’t be a bad thing at all IMO. Mooney is already an established legit WR2 and maybe more in a non-Nagy offense (I think his realistic ceiling is as a Brandon Cooks type which is a high end 2 which is a damn fine piece). Give me two 2s plus a depth signing and then draft a guy in the 2nd round with realistic potential to be a WR1. That sets our QB up pretty well IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 51 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Ryan Pace truly was a salary cap terrorist. He was a huge clown. Ryan Pace was a salary cap animal. The amount of bad money he left to build a 6 win team should ensure he never is a GM again. 2022 Cap Space Wasted Mack: 12 million added in dead money Quinn: 3.5 million in dead added Dalton: 5 Graham: 4.5 Leno: 2.5 Ifedi and Gipson: 2.5 Whitehair: 4.4 million Trevathan: guaranteed 9 million this season He was in job save mode last two years and flailing about the way everyone does in that situation. Writing was on wall when Nagy couldn't make Trubisky and/or offense good in 2019. No stop gap journeyman QB measures were likely to fix that and he still got two more shots at it in Foles and Dalton. That was outrageous. They should have just hit reset. That's why I was aghast they gave him a lame duck year to do more damage. I think it was more they liked him and Nagy personally they got the one or arguably two more years past when they should have been let go then it was that they were trying to save money by paying out their contracts. At least Pace last draft was (likely) good or I liked it anyway. That showed integrity on his part. It will be a huge slap in face if Trubisky plays well for another team. I think he would have done well in Buffalo had Allen gotten hurt. I don't think he will do well on a bad team. All that being said IF Fields pans out - I think Pace gets another shot at GM somewhere because he made trade and the pick. He is handsome, personable and people like to be around him. Those things matter. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskieBear Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Honestly surprised Poles didn’t package in Ledarius Mack in the deal as well to get that 6th rounder upgraded to a 3rd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: Betting that Nagy could field and effective offense was part of the "oops" as well. Makes you wonder if other teams who might be on the fance about firing coaches and GMs might look at the Bears over the last 2 years and say "nope, don't want any of that!" where we had staff trying to eke out another win or two to save jobs while essentially guaranteeing that no matter who's in charge the next year is going to be a waste. Do have to say that Nagy managed to waste last year in truly comprehensive fashion. If there are no other huge subtractions, it seems like they will use 2023 cap space to make a big move or two. Really comes down to what they think of the young tackles. I think if they like Jenkins and Borom both, you'll see a big FA WR signing (who I can't imagine as there are no surefire studs out there besides maybe Cooper.) If they're not sold on them (and I'm not) I bet we'll see a tackle. They need a tackle anyway. Bears were crazy lucky that Leno and Massie were so durable for so long. They had garbage depth. Good thing about drafting guys like Jenkins and Borom is if they don't work out at tackle they will likely make good guards. I'd try to draft a talented OT every other year on average. OL, WR and CB are volume positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: They need a tackle anyway. Bears were crazy lucky that Leno and Massie were so durable for so long. They had garbage depth. Good thing about drafting guys like Jenkins and Borom is if they don't work out at tackle they will likely make good guards. I'd try to draft a talented OT every other year on average. OL, WR and CB are volume positions. If they plan to roll with Jenkins and Borom at OT for 2022 to see what they have I think a vet swing tackle makes more sense than a rookie this year. Could do both I suppose. Agree wholeheartedly with drafting OL every year though, and not just at the end of your draft if you’re happy with your starters. Keep churning the bottom of your roster. Easier to do, of course, if we’re not frivolously trading away picks all the time… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: If they plan to roll with Jenkins and Borom at OT for 2022 to see what they have I think a vet swing tackle makes more sense than a rookie this year. Could do both I suppose. Agree wholeheartedly with drafting OL every year though, and not just at the end of your draft if you’re happy with your starters. Keep churning the bottom of your roster. Easier to do, of course, if we’re not frivolously trading away picks all the time… Yes they need a vet tackle no question. Jenkins and Borom as your only (presumably) viable OTs would not be wise. Fields took a terrible beating last year. He didn't just get hit, not all hits are equal. He got hit really hard again and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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