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2018 Draftable QB Discussion

candyman93

By candyman93
in Cleveland Browns

Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold?  

72 members have voted

  1. 1. Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold?

    • Josh Rosen
      25
    • Sam Darnold
      47

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Bonanza23

Bonanza23

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah, he’s been notorious close to the vest in the way he does things, almost to a fault.

What he’s doing is not known with certainty by folks outside of the organization, I’m confident of that.

To carry on with this, does anybody else find it weird that Evan Silva hasn’t been tweeting anything about us?  Hoping Dorsey told Hue to shut the heck up. 

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Kiwibrown

Kiwibrown

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, DizzyDean said:

Also, if you haven’t kept up with the nfl, guys like Derek Carr, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, that are drafted later and end up being studs are possible.  If Dorsey is worth his salt, he may find one if needed.  Unless of course you think we will be too good to draft high enough to get one in round two or very late in round one.

Rodgers wasn’t exactly late. Carr fell because there were lots of names in the draft, teddy, Manziel, bottles. Also his brother was a bust. 

There hasn’t been a russel Wilson until now. Most qbs in colllege with wheels can’t throw and don’t have excellent character. 

If you like a qb you take himhigh.

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Thomas5737

Thomas5737

Posted
Posted

here are the Top 10 QBASE scores since 1997:

  1. Philip Rivers (1,964 QBASE)
  2. Carson Palmer (1,916 QBASE)
  3. Donovan McNabb (1,799 QBASE)
  4. Baker Mayfield (1,480 QBASE)
  5. Russell Wilson (1,288 QBASE)
  6. Peyton Manning (1,279 QBASE)
  7. Marcus Mariota (1,277 QBASE)
  8. Byron Leftwich (1,216 QBASE)
  9. Aaron Rodgers (1,216 QBASE)
  10. Ben Roethlisberger (1,211 QBASE)

 

Lamar Jackson (656 QBASE)

Josh Rosen (623 QBASE)

Sam Darnold (412 QBASE)

Mason Rudolph (343 QBASE)

Luke Falk (277 QBASE)

Kyle Lauletta (273 QBASE)

Josh Allen (-83 QBASE)

 

Just be careful what data you use use, as someone who has Mayfield as their pick at 1 it could be used to make a case for him (or against Darnold). I do think the top 3 are close and Allen isn't but their data has Mayfield as a top pick, Jackson and Rosen as the only other 1st round grades. So while it's nice to see their data follows my own train of thought about Allen and it also has Mayfield as pretty much can't miss I don't agree with Darnold's ranking nor Jackson being that high. So it's probably accept all data or none and I think have have to accept none even though I like Mayfield as a prospect and don't like Allen.

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Aztec Hammer

Aztec Hammer

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

here are the Top 10 QBASE scores since 1997:

  1. Philip Rivers (1,964 QBASE)
  2. Carson Palmer (1,916 QBASE)
  3. Donovan McNabb (1,799 QBASE)
  4. Baker Mayfield (1,480 QBASE)
  5. Russell Wilson (1,288 QBASE)
  6. Peyton Manning (1,279 QBASE)
  7. Marcus Mariota (1,277 QBASE)
  8. Byron Leftwich (1,216 QBASE)
  9. Aaron Rodgers (1,216 QBASE)
  10. Ben Roethlisberger (1,211 QBASE)

 

Lamar Jackson (656 QBASE)

Josh Rosen (623 QBASE)

Sam Darnold (412 QBASE)

Mason Rudolph (343 QBASE)

Luke Falk (277 QBASE)

Kyle Lauletta (273 QBASE)

Josh Allen (-83 QBASE)

 

Just be careful what data you use use, as someone who has Mayfield as their pick at 1 it could be used to make a case for him (or against Darnold). I do think the top 3 are close and Allen isn't but their data has Mayfield as a top pick, Jackson and Rosen as the only other 1st round grades. So while it's nice to see their data follows my own train of thought about Allen and it also has Mayfield as pretty much can't miss I don't agree with Darnold's ranking nor Jackson being that high. So it's probably accept all data or none and I think have have to accept none even though I like Mayfield as a prospect and don't like Allen.

I haven’t looked into the data. I just posted the above because I thought the little anecdote about 27 QBs with a negative score and no pro bowls was fairly interesting. I’m not sure of the parameters they use but I’ve heard a prospect is dinged a fair amount for only playing two years. This may apply to Darnold and in fairness, Allen too. I also believe completion percentage in its own right is a strong measure. Allen at 56% and Mayfield around 70% seems to fall in line with their negative and positive grades, respectively. 

This may or may not be unfair on Allen because I don’t know if they take into account things like surrounding cast, pressure percentages etc. Of course not all college stats and completion percentages are made equal. Though the difference between 56% and Mayfield and Darnold’s percentages is stark.

I prefer to simply judge each QB with my own eyes and not really refer to data for any other reason as supportive material.

But what I gain from this QBASE material, especially the bit about the 27 negative graded QBs, is that perhaps it’s greatest value as an analytical piece is that it possibly provides a threshold of sorts.

Certainly there is no denying that holding a negative grade does not put a prospect in good company.

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hornbybrown

hornbybrown

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, bruceb said:

I do not think that is possible.

It’s not possible because they are similar prospects, I actually rate Cardale as slightly better as a prospect. Played harder competition and had a higher competition percentage vs that better competition 

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Kiwibrown

Kiwibrown

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

It’s not possible because they are similar prospects, I actually rate Cardale as slightly better as a prospect. Played harder competition and had a higher competition percentage vs that better competition 

less tape though.

and he isn't as good an athlete.

But he is more accurate. 

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buno67

buno67

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, hornbybrown said:

It’s not possible because they are similar prospects, I actually rate Cardale as slightly better as a prospect. Played harder competition and had a higher competition percentage vs that better competition 

I don’t know, it’s really hard to compare the two tho. 

Jones was great on that playoff run but he was pretty bad when he was the starter the following season. I think Allen could of been a lot better if he was in a program like tOSU. Allen prolly could of benefited throwing a deep pass to Devin Smith or being able to hand it off to Zeke, or playing behind a OL that has sent every starter to the NFL. IMO when it comes to raw potential I think Allen has more than Jones. Jones just had ppl in college that was able to properly utilize it. 

My only hope for Allen is he won’t be rushed to play and he can spend time being developed by a darn good QB coach. I have a lot of faith in Zamp to work with him. 

I have no issues with any of the top QBs. I just have issues if they plan to start any of them right away. Rosen and Baker would fair better if they had to play in their rookie year but believe sitting for a season would greatly benefit them. 

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Bonanza23

Bonanza23

Posted
Posted
On 4/3/2018 at 9:36 AM, Bonanza23 said:

To carry on with this, does anybody else find it weird that Evan Silva hasn’t been tweeting anything about us?  Hoping Dorsey told Hue to shut the heck up. 

Ok so just heard Jason Gibbs parrot what Zegura said about this being a tight lipped regime. He said he wouldn’t be surprised if Dorsey is sending out false info to find the leaks. I wouldn’t believe anything we hear about what’s going on for now. 

On another note, does anybody know if Allen is related to Kiper?  He’s going to die on that Allen going number one take. 

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bruceb

bruceb

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

On another note, does anybody know if Allen is related to Kiper?

Biological father mated with an Amazon is what I have heard (that' a lie).

8 hours ago, Bonanza23 said:

He’s going to die on that Allen going number one take. 

The sad part is it actually will build his brand, drawing more hater attention to his delusional fan base.

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