JDBrocks Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 32 minutes ago, ArcticNorseman said: I was responding to Captain's post . . . And I makes lots of points🤣 First, I understand Lamar's gotta try getting his while he's a hot ticket. 2nd, he's not worth what he's asking for. 3rd, QB is about throwing . . . The historical precedent is set. For example, Andrew Luck, Big Ben, Rodgers, Mahomes and Hebert can all run, but they throw first. They think about throwing first and they win by throwing. Lamar's a resurgence of a passing fad. The Vikings have lost two big games due to QB runs . . . Steve Young and Mike Vick. I don't call Young a running QB. He’s a 26 year old former MVP - he is absolutely worth what he’s asking for. He’s a fine passer - a great one even. His numbers from the pocket have been on par with the elite “throwing QBs” that you claim he is not. I respect the injury risk argument more than I respect the “he isn’t a passing QB” argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: He’s a 26 year old former MVP - he is absolutely worth what he’s asking for. He’s a fine passer - a great one even. His numbers from the pocket have been on par with the elite “throwing QBs” that you claim he is not. I respect the injury risk argument more than I respect the “he isn’t a passing QB” argument. The nice thing about this forum is we're allowed to say what we want respectfully. On other platforms, this discussion wouldn't be worth my time. You believe Lamar's out-of-this world good and that's fine. I know he has a rocket arm and he's big and fast. To say he's a great passer proves my point . . . Shiny pants, like feathered hair and parachute pants, are a passing fad. In 8 - 10 years, I may be proven totally wrong and he may have earned a gold jacket. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 55 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: He’s a 26 year old former MVP - he is absolutely worth what he’s asking for. He’s a fine passer - a great one even. His numbers from the pocket have been on par with the elite “throwing QBs” that you claim he is not. I respect the injury risk argument more than I respect the “he isn’t a passing QB” argument. How much of his passing is helped by the threat of him running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, ArcticNorseman said: The nice thing about this forum is we're allowed to say what we want respectfully. On other platforms, this discussion wouldn't be worth my time. You believe Lamar's out-of-this world good and that's fine. I know he has a rocket arm and he's big and fast. To say he's a great passer proves my point . . . Shiny pants, like feathered hair and parachute pants, are a passing fad. In 8 - 10 years, I may be proven totally wrong and he may have earned a gold jacket. Agreed, glad to have the conversation! I still don’t understand what’s not to like though? Your argument was that QBs should be passers, and the numbers support that Jackson is one of the better ones. He’s just also a great runner. Put Lamar Jackson in a Kevin O’Connell offense and see what he can do with real offensive weapons around him. I for one think he’d thrive and it’d be one of the most entertaining offenses in football. He’s not a flash in the pan, either. The number of QBs that run the ball as a plus part of their game is only going to go up. I can’t wrap my head around not wanting Lamar Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Just now, vikesfan89 said: How much of his passing is helped by the threat of him running? Probably a lot, but isn’t that a good thing? Why wouldn’t you want your passing game simplified for you and your receivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: Probably a lot, but isn’t that a good thing? Why wouldn’t you want your passing game simplified for you and your receivers? It's good as long as he keeps providing that threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 hours ago, JDBrocks said: Probably a lot, but isn’t that a good thing? Why wouldn’t you want your passing game simplified for you and your receivers? Perhaps to avoid predictability. Isn’t the defense going to pickup on what you’re doing if it’s “simplified?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 hours ago, JDBrocks said: Agreed, glad to have the conversation! I still don’t understand what’s not to like though? Your argument was that QBs should be passers, and the numbers support that Jackson is one of the better ones. He’s just also a great runner. Put Lamar Jackson in a Kevin O’Connell offense and see what he can do with real offensive weapons around him. I for one think he’d thrive and it’d be one of the most entertaining offenses in football. He’s not a flash in the pan, either. The number of QBs that run the ball as a plus part of their game is only going to go up. I can’t wrap my head around not wanting Lamar Jackson. Not wanting him on the Vikings, my position, relates to the price he wants vs the opportunity cost affecting the rest of the team. Sure he's electric with the ball in his hands because ya never really know what he'll do next. That, in its self, is somewhat a curse, one which Vikings fans experienced a bit with Daunte Culpepper. But his price tag, with JJ and Darrisaw looming? The math doesn't add up from my limited perspective. The justification of my position lies in the data recorded of the top NFL passers in history. Among Brady, Brees, Manning, Favre and Big Ben reside 13 Lombardi trophies and careers with their primary team in excess of 15 years. Conversely, the historical running QBs including Sir Francis, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Cam Newton, and Mike Vick average 5+ fewer years playing and half the passing yards of the leaders . . . With 1 SB win among them. Oh, and for how electric Vick was, he finished his career with a mere 22,464 passing yards (of course his personal life affected his career). I think its fair to look at Joe Burrow, a traditional passer, compared to Lamar Jackson . . . And then compare them to the hybrid-types of Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert. Each has unique skills, some pass more and better than others . . . But each needs a team around them. Which of these guys realizes the effort, and finances, a team needs to build winners? Interesting times, for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 This is draft talk? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 minute ago, PrplChilPill said: This is draft talk? Doh! I got suckered into a non-applicable debate😂 So, from other sources, likely not reliable, the Vikings are casting Hunter lures in the pond. If he's traded, say for a 2nd and 4th (hopefully better) should the Vikes use the 2nd on Hooker, or a replacement for Danielle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 7 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Perhaps to avoid predictability. Isn’t the defense going to pickup on what you’re doing if it’s “simplified?” That’s not what I meant by simplified it that context. It’s easier to complete passes with fewer guys in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 this is interesting, updated beat writers mock from the athletic. Alec Lewis makes a big move here...Thoughts on this move and the cost? https://theathletic.com/4327828/2023/03/22/nfl-mock-draft-2023-vikings-rodgers/ 7. Minnesota Vikings (from LV): Will Levis, QB, Kentucky Trade details: Vikings send No. 23, 70 and a 2024 first-round pick to the Raiders for No. 7 and 204 The Vikings’ future at quarterback is in question. Kirk Cousins remains under contract through 2023. The team has yet to extend him. Until they do, thinking about the team’s next thrower of the football is worthwhile. Though it might be tempting to save key 2024 draft capital, especially with the potential QBs in next year’s NFL Draft, the Vikings could benefit from adding a QB now. A season to learn head coach Kevin O’Connell’s system would be a boon. So would the opportunity to sit behind Cousins. Levis, a strong-armed passer, played for Liam Coen in 2021 at Kentucky. Coen spent three years on the Rams staff with O’Connell from 2018 to 2020, then replaced him as L.A.’s offensive coordinator in 2022. Leaping to No. 7 would take some heavy lifting, but the time comes for every team to shoot its shot. — Alec Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 D. Jones ruined Evan Engrams first few years and now is it JSN’s turn? At least they have Daboll that should help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, battle2heaven said: this is interesting, updated beat writers mock from the athletic. Alec Lewis makes a big move here...Thoughts on this move and the cost? https://theathletic.com/4327828/2023/03/22/nfl-mock-draft-2023-vikings-rodgers/ 7. Minnesota Vikings (from LV): Will Levis, QB, Kentucky Trade details: Vikings send No. 23, 70 and a 2024 first-round pick to the Raiders for No. 7 and 204 The Vikings’ future at quarterback is in question. Kirk Cousins remains under contract through 2023. The team has yet to extend him. Until they do, thinking about the team’s next thrower of the football is worthwhile. Though it might be tempting to save key 2024 draft capital, especially with the potential QBs in next year’s NFL Draft, the Vikings could benefit from adding a QB now. A season to learn head coach Kevin O’Connell’s system would be a boon. So would the opportunity to sit behind Cousins. Levis, a strong-armed passer, played for Liam Coen in 2021 at Kentucky. Coen spent three years on the Rams staff with O’Connell from 2018 to 2020, then replaced him as L.A.’s offensive coordinator in 2022. Leaping to No. 7 would take some heavy lifting, but the time comes for every team to shoot its shot. — Alec Lewis I have absolutely no issue with the cost. Or the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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