Official 2023 QB Thread

[CWood21]

11 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Yeah obviously you’d like to see more wins, but he was on a pretty bad team. In those games he threw more, he also played against the best teams he faced all year. He had 9 games with 23 or more pass attempts this year (close enough to 25 and they are both arbitrary numbers anyway). In those 9 games he faced:

Everyone's tripping over themselves trying to find Josh Allen, and statistically speaking he's the anomaly.  Generally speaking, QBs that aren't productive in college don't produce in the NFL.  Allen was statistically bad in college, and he's a top 3 QB in the NFL this past season.  If he could tone down the INTS, he'd probably be the MVP.

Every year, we talk about how [insert QB prospects] is always held back by the coaching staff, supporting staff, etc.  And every year, they don't amount to much.

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Everyone's tripping over themselves trying to find Josh Allen, and statistically speaking he's the anomaly.  Generally speaking, QBs that aren't productive in college don't produce in the NFL.  Allen was statistically bad in college, and he's a top 3 QB in the NFL this past season.  If he could tone down the INTS, he'd probably be the MVP.

Every year, we talk about how [insert QB prospects] is always held back by the coaching staff, supporting staff, etc.  And every year, they don't amount to much.

Daniel Jones was not amazing at Duke statistically and really disappointed his final year, Josh Allen was amazing his sophomore year at Wyoming just not his Junior year.  Davis Mills is another, was never great at Stanford but has been pretty decent in the NFL, never threw over 2000 yards at Stanford and three over 3000 in the NFL this past year.

 

But with Jones and Allen clearly that athletic ability combined with size is huge, ability to run or extend the play and make big plays downfield.  That is why some are excited about Anthony Richardson he can extend the play, he is big and super athletic and has a great arm.

 

Then again the last pick in the draft Brock Purdy, who I had as a 5th or 6th round pick is playing great but clearly is helped by those around him.  But he can move a big, run the football a little extend plays and make accurate throws downfield.  

 

Either way if you are an athletic QB with a big arm and big size teams will be very interested in you if you show potential.  

 

Next year there are a ton of those guys potentially who are mobile, decent size with good throwing arms.  

Caleb Williams USC
Drake Maye UNC
JJ McCarthy Michigan
Bo Nix Oregon 
Michael Penix Jr Washington
Jordan Travis Florida State
Jayden Daniels LSU 
KJ Jefferson Arkansas 
Cameron Rising Utah 
DJ Uiagalelei Oregon State
Grayson McCall Coastal Carolina
Joe Milton III Tennessee 
Tyler Shough Texas Tech 
John Rhys Plumlee UCF 
Phil Jurkovec Pitt 
Jalon Daniels Kansas
Jeff Sims Nebraska
Dillon Gabriel Oklahoma 

 

 

This year in terms of athletic ability, running ability and size it is only these four potentially which helps them all if a team is looking for that, especially helps Richardson and Levis.  Bryce Young I did not include just because of his size and he is not really a physical runner obviously because of it, he can extend the play as well as any though.

Anthony Richardson Florida 
Will Levis Kentucky 
Max Duggan TU
Dorian Thompson-Robinson UCLA 

[BetterCallSaul]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Everyone's tripping over themselves trying to find Josh Allen, and statistically speaking he's the anomaly.  Generally speaking, QBs that aren't productive in college don't produce in the NFL.  Allen was statistically bad in college, and he's a top 3 QB in the NFL this past season.  If he could tone down the INTS, he'd probably be the MVP.

Every year, we talk about how [insert QB prospects] is always held back by the coaching staff, supporting staff, etc.  And every year, they don't amount to much.

And people forget that Josh Allen was actually a good prospect. People act like he was just this big lump of clay that sucked in college, but had elite traits. Allen was good at Wyoming. He was always a leader of men and played extremely well in college with a bunch of dookie stains around him. A QB with mobility and a strong arm doesn't equate to Josh Allen. Allen was accurate down the field, played in a pro style offense, took calculated risks sprinkling in several "wow" throws in between, and was a literal 1-man show in college.

I am not going to say I thought he would be an MVP type player, but I would have bet a lot that he was going to be a good QB in the league. I don't think most people really ever watched him play in college & just kind of assumed, box score scouting, that he was this JaMarcus Russell type player. Josh Allen was always a great prospect!!!! Anthony Richardson is nothing like Allen from the neck up. Neither is Will Levis, although he's closer to it as far as making wow throws with good decision-making.

[minutemancl]

I think I'm out on Bryce Young, at least as a top-5 pick. He's gonna measure 5'8" at the combine. I don't think you can draft a 5'8" QB at #1.

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

I think I'm out on Bryce Young, at least as a top-5 pick. He's gonna measure 5'8" at the combine. I don't think you can draft a 5'8" QB at #1.

I don’t think he’s 5’8 but I believe the rumors that Levis will go #1 are real. There’s a team out there who is enamored with him 

[minutemancl]

2 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

I don’t think he’s 5’8 but I believe the rumors that Levis will go #1 are real. There’s a team out there who is enamored with him 

I've seen some pretty damning photo evidence, worst of all being the pictures of him next to Saban and next to Mark Ingram.

[tyler735]

10 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Everyone's tripping over themselves trying to find Josh Allen, and statistically speaking he's the anomaly.  Generally speaking, QBs that aren't productive in college don't produce in the NFL.  Allen was statistically bad in college, and he's a top 3 QB in the NFL this past season.  If he could tone down the INTS, he'd probably be the MVP.

Every year, we talk about how [insert QB prospects] is always held back by the coaching staff, supporting staff, etc.  And every year, they don't amount to much.

Richardson is a very unique prospect both in terms of tools/skillset and experience (or lack thereof) since he declared early with only about 15 games as a starting QB under his belt. Nobody is saying he isn't a boom/bust prospect or that he isn't without a good bit of risk as a QB. He certainly is. However, there also aren't a ton of examples that you can compare him with either between his athleticism/arm talent and lack of experience. I really wish he would have stayed another season to show he could take a step forward as a passer. As it stands, we have to project even more with him than most prospects and try to determine how much of his inconsistencies (in basically his 1st full season as a starting QB) are correctable.

If we were to just purely look at him as an athlete, there is a good case to be made for him to be at least a day 2 pick given his freakish measurables. If guys like Matt Jones, Terrelle Pryor, Antwaan Randle El, etc. can be drafted in the 1st few rounds as "athletes" that were QB's in college, I see no reason why Richardson wouldn't be worth a shot based on that alone as he possesses athletic gifts that few prospects have.

As a QB he obviously possesses elite athleticism, and excellent arm talent. Beyond that I thought he had pretty good pocket awareness to navigate within the pocket to avoid pressure to buy time to make throws and also feel pressure coming and bail at the right time to scramble to make plays with his legs. Given his lack of experience, his pocket presence was something I was expecting to be a lot worse when watching him play. Despite playing a lot of zone read, I also noticed he was making multiple reads going through progressions at times and making better decisions with his throws as the season went on.

His accuracy was erratic this past year, and that generally is a kiss of death with a prospect, but I just can't help but make a bit of an exception with him given that it literally was his 1st year as a starting QB. There are several examples of college QB's struggling with accuracy in their 1st season as a starting QB and having a significant bump with more experience. Unfortunately we won't be able to see that at the college level with Richardson given that he declared early, but guys like Joe Burrow, Matthew Stafford, Lamar Jackson, etc. all saw significant jumps in consistency from their 1st year of being a starting QB in college. This obviously doesn't mean that same will happen with Richardson, but there is certainly a decent possibility of it, if he is willing to put in the work. I'd be hesitant to draft Richardson as a top 5 pick, and probably even a top 10 pick, but I think I'd consider it in the mid to late 1st round given his massive ceiling and rare skillset. If he doesn't pan out as a QB there is also still a good possibility that he could carve out a Taysom Hill or Antwaan Randle El type role for years to come, so all wouldn't be lost and there would still be some value there.

[bucksavage1]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Daniel Jones was not amazing at Duke statistically and really disappointed his final year, Josh Allen was amazing his sophomore year at Wyoming just not his Junior year.  Davis Mills is another, was never great at Stanford but has been pretty decent in the NFL, never threw over 2000 yards at Stanford and three over 3000 in the NFL this past year.

 

But with Jones and Allen clearly that athletic ability combined with size is huge, ability to run or extend the play and make big plays downfield.  That is why some are excited about Anthony Richardson he can extend the play, he is big and super athletic and has a great arm.

 

Then again the last pick in the draft Brock Purdy, who I had as a 5th or 6th round pick is playing great but clearly is helped by those around him.  But he can move a big, run the football a little extend plays and make accurate throws downfield.  

 

Either way if you are an athletic QB with a big arm and big size teams will be very interested in you if you show potential.  

 

Next year there are a ton of those guys potentially who are mobile, decent size with good throwing arms.  

Caleb Williams USC
Drake Maye UNC
JJ McCarthy Michigan
Bo Nix Oregon 
Michael Penix Jr Washington
Jordan Travis Florida State
Jayden Daniels LSU 
KJ Jefferson Arkansas 
Cameron Rising Utah 
DJ Uiagalelei Oregon State
Grayson McCall Coastal Carolina
Joe Milton III Tennessee 
Tyler Shough Texas Tech 
John Rhys Plumlee UCF 
Phil Jurkovec Pitt 
Jalon Daniels Kansas
Jeff Sims Nebraska
Dillon Gabriel Oklahoma 

 

 

This year in terms of athletic ability, running ability and size it is only these four potentially which helps them all if a team is looking for that, especially helps Richardson and Levis.  Bryce Young I did not include just because of his size and he is not really a physical runner obviously because of it, he can extend the play as well as any though.

Anthony Richardson Florida 
Will Levis Kentucky 
Max Duggan TU
Dorian Thompson-Robinson UCLA 

The NFL QB prototype is Evolving  before our eyes. All the QBs left in the playoffs are mobile that can beat teams in pocket with their arm, extend plays outside give WRs more time and be a threat to run as well. The days on the one dimensional pocket passer are over. Brady looked like a sitting duck Monday.

The athleticism of defenders coming into the forced this changed in developing QBs

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

The NFL QB prototype is Evolving  before our eyes. All the QBs left in the playoffs are mobile that can beat teams in pocket with their arm, extend plays outside give WRs more time and be a threat to run as well. The days on the one dimensional pocket passer are over. Brady looked like a sitting duck Monday.

The athleticism of defenders coming into the forced this changed in developing QBs

I would say the changing of the rules allowed all of this.  QBs cannot be hit like they used to be hit, look at RGIII, he was a super fast and athletic running QB and was put into a running QB system in the NFL when the QB run was just starting to take off.  Dude basically ended his career with the hits he took and the injuries he had.  And he did not get hit even like Vick got hit when he was a rookie so Griffin benefited from that and still got hurt.

 

Now you cannot hit the QB like that period.  And it is also easier for receivers because they can go over the middle, it used to be they could never do that because a safety would take their head off with a hit if they caught it.  So those rule changes allowed all of this.  Not to mention LBs are not nearly as big as they used to be and defenses are smaller so it is easier to run because they want speed now with all the spread offenses.  

Granted QBs seem to be more mobile that is for sure but with the offenses played now a days it is almost a necessity.  Some of the QBs would switch positions potentially, even Jalen Hurts, 25 years ago no way he could be a QB and would have been moved to RB but in football today he absolutely can.

 

Great for player safety no question, but honestly defensive backs should be allowed some contact or at least hand fighting with the QB because there is so little they can actually down now defensively.  But the QB has never in the history of the league been so protected as he is now, proof in old men playing the position and no problem and no real fear of being knocked out of the game.

 

 

 

 

In terms of Will Levis, sure you got stuff like this below out there but there is the reality of Kentucky got destroyed at Tennessee and Levis did not even pass for 100 yards, barely beat Missouri and only had 170 yards, lost to Vandy and had 109 yards, lost to Georgia and had 206 yards.  Did beat Florida on the road which was great but only had 202 yards in that one.  Yes his offensive line sucked big time but he did have two of the best receivers Kentucky has had in years in Barion Brown and Key, they even had Tayvion Robinson who is also very good.  The Colts clearly make foolish choices though, look at their sub HC this year.  If that owner likes Levis because of his toughness then he will draft him, simple as that.

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2023/1/18/23561072/nfl-mock-draft-2023-colts-trade-bears-will-levis-kentucky-wildcats

 

He should not be taken over Bryce Young or CJ Stroud, and there is a chance he really struggles but I do like the kid, love his running ability and really like his arm talent.  But Colts do have Sam Ehlinger, super tough in college and very productive running and passing, he obviously was not some amazing QB when Ryan was taken out so why would Levis be?  Will Levis again I like but never ever in college did he look like Josh Allen in terms of his arm talent and ability to extend plays and make huge throws downfield.  If the Colts trade up and think they are getting that, they are mistaken.  

Anthony Richardson is more athletic than Will Levis and has a stronger more effortless throwing arm.  But he is a work in progress and honestly so is Levis which is fine.  

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

And people forget that Josh Allen was actually a good prospect. People act like he was just this big lump of clay that sucked in college, but had elite traits. Allen was good at Wyoming. He was always a leader of men and played extremely well in college with a bunch of dookie stains around him. A QB with mobility and a strong arm doesn't equate to Josh Allen. Allen was accurate down the field, played in a pro style offense, took calculated risks sprinkling in several "wow" throws in between, and was a literal 1-man show in college.

I am not going to say I thought he would be an MVP type player, but I would have bet a lot that he was going to be a good QB in the league. I don't think most people really ever watched him play in college & just kind of assumed, box score scouting, that he was this JaMarcus Russell type player. Josh Allen was always a great prospect!!!! Anthony Richardson is nothing like Allen from the neck up. Neither is Will Levis, although he's closer to it as far as making wow throws with good decision-making.

He was exactly what you described him as.  A big lump of clay.  Acting as if it was a foregone conclusion that he should have been a top 5 pick is revisionist history at it's finest.  He completed 56% of his passes with a 2:1 TD:INT ratio.  That's not good.  And it goes beyond stats.  You'd see those NFL-caliber throws, and then you have those WTF throws as well.

[tyler735]

I’m curious to see if a team like the Ravens, Cardinals, or Bears take a look at Malik Cunningham to bring in as a backup QB. Possesses a ton of athleticism and could see him developing into a Tyrod Taylor/Tyler Huntley type QB where he could step in and keep the style of offense going if the starter were to miss time. 

[BetterCallSaul]

30 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

He was exactly what you described him as.  A big lump of clay.  Acting as if it was a foregone conclusion that he should have been a top 5 pick is revisionist history at it's finest.  He completed 56% of his passes with a 2:1 TD:INT ratio.  That's not good.  And it goes beyond stats.  You'd see those NFL-caliber throws, and then you have those WTF throws as well.

mmmm not really. I watched almost every game, as the rumors at the time were that the Browns were going to be taking Allen. I wanted Darnold that year, but watched Allen intently. He took care of the ball very well for a team that was a Play Action Shot offense. He was putting missiles right in dude's chests and they were dropping the ball. There were no RPO's to inflate his completion percentage. There were no gimme throws as almost everyone was playing man coverage and daring their god awful WR's to get open.

To a degree, every QB prospect is a lump of clay. None of these guys are coming in with perfect refinement, to be fair. But I don't think Allen was any more raw than the other QB's coming out. I was good with all of the top 4 QB's that year. Turns out that only 1 was good (Allen), but I would have been fine with Josh Allen at #1.

 

I've never seen an NFL prospect at QB have to fit the ball into tighter windows on a snap-by-snap basis than when I watched Allen's tape. And I don't watch highlight tapes; I'm watching "Josh Allen vs." tapes on YouTube, where you can see every good and bad snap. He was a freaking stud prospect who was more refined than people give him credit for. Especially because he demonstrated the maturity, poise, and leadership qualities that would lead one to believe he was going to be a mental workhorse.

[BetterCallSaul]

24 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I’m curious to see if a team like the Ravens, Cardinals, or Bears take a look at Malik Cunningham to bring in as a backup QB. Possesses a ton of athleticism and could see him developing into a Tyrod Taylor/Tyler Huntley type QB where he could step in and keep the style of offense going if the starter were to miss time. 

Very much doubt that. Tyrod Taylor and Tyler Huntley are and were adept at throwing the ball accurately to receivers. Cunningham can't fit a ball into a tight window to save his life unless it's a moon ball outside the numbers. He's a horrible QB. Great athlete for the QB position, but not the kind of elite athlete that could switch to WR and all of a sudden be considered a deep threat.

 

I think he's undraftable.

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

mmmm not really. I watched almost every game, as the rumors at the time were that the Browns were going to be taking Allen. I wanted Darnold that year, but watched Allen intently. He took care of the ball very well for a team that was a Play Action Shot offense. He was putting missiles right in dude's chests and they were dropping the ball. There were no RPO's to inflate his completion percentage. There were no gimme throws as almost everyone was playing man coverage and daring their god awful WR's to get open.

To a degree, every QB prospect is a lump of clay. None of these guys are coming in with perfect refinement, to be fair. But I don't think Allen was any more raw than the other QB's coming out. I was good with all of the top 4 QB's that year. Turns out that only 1 was good (Allen), but I would have been fine with Josh Allen at #1.

 

I've never seen an NFL prospect at QB have to fit the ball into tighter windows on a snap-by-snap basis than when I watched Allen's tape. And I don't watch highlight tapes; I'm watching "Josh Allen vs." tapes on YouTube, where you can see every good and bad snap. He was a freaking stud prospect who was more refined than people give him credit for. Especially because he demonstrated the maturity, poise, and leadership qualities that would lead one to believe he was going to be a mental workhorse.

At one point or another, the Browns were linked to every QB who went in the first round that year sans Lamar Jackson.  Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, and Josh Rosen were all linked to Cleveland at one point or another.  So saying he was linked to Cleveland at some point really doesn't hold much weight.

And when you watched Josh Allen, he also had those WTF misses where he wasn't even close.  And despite your opinion otherwise, his drop rate was actually the lowest outside of Sam Darnold.

He just wasn't a very accurate QB in college.  There's got to be a TON of credit given to Brian Daboll for his work with Allen.

[jebrick]

3 hours ago, CWood21 said:

At one point or another, the Browns were linked to every QB who went in the first round that year sans Lamar Jackson.  Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, and Josh Rosen were all linked to Cleveland at one point or another.  So saying he was linked to Cleveland at some point really doesn't hold much weight.

And when you watched Josh Allen, he also had those WTF misses where he wasn't even close.  And despite your opinion otherwise, his drop rate was actually the lowest outside of Sam Darnold.

He just wasn't a very accurate QB in college.  There's got to be a TON of credit given to Brian Daboll for his work with Allen.

The same may be true for Mailk Willis as well.  Cannon arm but horrible mechanics and very inaccurate ( especially on crossing routes).  Can he be fixed with a good off season?  Just like Allen, he was a boom bust pick.

Levis and Richardson are the boom/bust picks for this QB class.  I would trust to fix Richardson's problems over Levis'