AZBearsFan Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: And if anyone has a good track of drafting and developing WR's, it's this organization. If anyone is going to get a lot out of a guy, especially if he's good, it's New England. Not one team offered better than a 7th round pick. Not one team offered that prior to July. Neal stinks. Whether N’Keal Harry (not Neal) is any good for the Bears for whatever role they have him tabbed for or not, you can’t really lump in the current Bears regime with the team’s prior history with drafting and developing WRs. We just don’t have any results yet on that front. They’ve only drafted one guy at the position, and he hasn’t even made it to his first preseason game yet. Conversely, NE has had the same regime in place for over 20 years now. Their most successful WR draft pick since they took Edelman in the 2009 7th round has been Matthew Slater, and he’s not even really a WR - he’s a ST star with one career reception. And to their credit, they seemingly know they don’t draft WRs well. In the 23 drafts 2000-2022, they’ve selected just 17 total WRs in total. Over the past 10 years they’ve only taken a WR before day 3 of the draft just 3 times (Aaron Dobson in 2013, Harry in 2019 and Tyquan Thornton this year). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 39 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Whether N’Keal Harry (not Neal) is any good for the Bears for whatever role they have him tabbed for or not, you can’t really lump in the current Bears regime with the team’s prior history with drafting and developing WRs. We just don’t have any results yet on that front. They’ve only drafted one guy at the position, and he hasn’t even made it to his first preseason game yet. Conversely, NE has had the same regime in place for over 20 years now. Their most successful WR draft pick since they took Edelman in the 2009 7th round has been Matthew Slater, and he’s not even really a WR - he’s a ST star with one career reception. And to their credit, they seemingly know they don’t draft WRs well. In the 23 drafts 2000-2022, they’ve selected just 17 total WRs in total. Over the past 10 years they’ve only taken a WR before day 3 of the draft just 3 times (Aaron Dobson in 2013, Harry in 2019 and Tyquan Thornton this year). I have no idea why I kept calling him Neal 😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 6 hours ago, beardown3231 said: You should care. Normally guys who are signed in July or traded for in July for a 7th round pick suck Do I think Harry can provide what you mentioned above to an extent? Sure. Do I think it's probable with this group after not doing it with McDaniels, Belichick and Brady? Not at all Normally sure…but there are also exceptions to that rule… The issue I believe Harry had was that he was with some insanely smart people in NE who asked him to learn the scheme in the NFL that most say is the most complex there is…bringing him to a simplistic scheme could make far more sense for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 34 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: The issue I believe Harry had was that he was with some insanely smart people in NE who asked him to learn the scheme in the NFL that most say is the most complex there is…bringing him to a simplistic scheme could make far more sense for all. Harry's issues were not separating and not catching the football. How is a more simplistic scheme going to help with either? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 49 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Harry's issues were not separating and not catching the football. How is a more simplistic scheme going to help with either? Everything is made harder when your over thinking…he showed he can separate and catch a football in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 Bears got some more future 7th rounders to hand out. Poles - you get a 7th and you get a 7th and you get a 7th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted August 8, 2022 Share Posted August 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Madmike90 said: Everything is made harder when your over thinking…he showed he can separate and catch a football in college. His inability to separate was a red flag during the scouting process: "Harry’s ability to body-up opponents and win with ball skills is undeniable, but his inability to find a threatening top gear or shake loose from tight man coverage must be accounted for within his new employer’s scheme." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 41 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: His inability to separate was a red flag during the scouting process: "Harry’s ability to body-up opponents and win with ball skills is undeniable, but his inability to find a threatening top gear or shake loose from tight man coverage must be accounted for within his new employer’s scheme." Again no one is saying he is elite at it...but do I feel he has the physical skill to create enough separation combined with his strength to makes catches...again it's all theory at this point...for me a simpler offence where he needs to think less about checks and adjustments and is just allowed to run a basic route tree and make tough catches using his physical tools fits what he does well...do I expect a 1,000 yard season? No of course not...but do I think he can be a solid contributor? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, beardown3231 said: And if anyone has a good track of drafting and developing WR's, it's this organization. It's kind of a weird argument to make. If you're saying the Pats draft **** receivers, then you're admitting Neal is **** (which he is). They do a decent job of developing. They got Agholor's career back on track. Edelman and Welker come to mind. Bourne is solid If anyone is going to get a lot out of a guy, especially if he's good, it's New England. Not one team offered better than a 7th round pick. Not one team offered that prior to July. Neal stinks. Just going off the original premise, Belichick/McDaniels/Brady are not the Gold Standard for drafting and developing WRs. If anything they are subpar at best (not saying the Bears are better, mind you). Have they drafted and developed anyone better than Alshon Jeffery's career with the Bears? Maybe Deion Branch? Anyway, I don't view a WR not succeeding with the Patriots as a sign that they cannot play in the NFL. They run/ran a notoriously complicated scheme. Edited August 9, 2022 by G08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 3 hours ago, abstract_thought said: His inability to separate was a red flag during the scouting process: "Harry’s ability to body-up opponents and win with ball skills is undeniable, but his inability to find a threatening top gear or shake loose from tight man coverage must be accounted for within his new employer’s scheme." I feel like you’re acting like WE spent the 1st rounder on him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, beardown3231 said: It's kind of a weird argument to make. If you're saying the Pats draft **** receivers, then you're admitting Neal is **** (which he is). They do a decent job of developing. They got Agholor's career back on track. Edelman and Welker come to mind. Bourne is solid Notice how people are glossing over this part? It's virtually the same thing I said in news. 12 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Conversely, NE has had the same regime in place for over 20 years now. Their most successful WR draft pick since they took Edelman in the 2009 7th round has been Matthew Slater, and he’s not even really a WR - he’s a ST star with one career reception. And to their credit, they seemingly know they don’t draft WRs well. In the 23 drafts 2000-2022, they’ve selected just 17 total WRs in total. Over the past 10 years they’ve only taken a WR before day 3 of the draft just 3 times (Aaron Dobson in 2013, Harry in 2019 and Tyquan Thornton this year). That should tell you something about the player your defending here! Belichick is the best HC in history, but he has also been crap at drafting WRs and HE CHOSE Harry in the 1st round--who has also been crap (what 12 catches 150 yards last year). But Belichick also knows how to take crap WRs and make them look better than they actually are. Him and Brady worked with nobodies for decades straight. I thought this was common knowledge. But obviously Belichick saw Harry as a lost cause and now we're supposed to somehow believe that the inexperienced lord and saviors Poles/Eberflus are going to suddenly prove the greatest head coach of all time wrong just because Nkeal frieaking Harry is wearing a Bears uniform now? GTFO. Some of you are just so damn lost in your bear goggled minds that it drives me nuts. Edited August 9, 2022 by JAF-N72EX 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said: That should tell you something about the player your defending here! Belichick is the best HC in history, but he has also been crap at drafting WRs and HE CHOSE Harry in the 1st round--who has also been crap (what 12 catches 150 yards last year). But Belichick also knows how to take crap WRs and make them look better than they actually are. Him and Brady worked with nobodies for decades straight. I thought this was common knowledge. But obviously Belichick saw Harry as a lost cause and now we're supposed to somehow believe that the inexperienced lord and saviors Poles/Eberflus are going to suddenly prove the greatest head coach of all time wrong just because Nkeal frieaking Harry is wearing a Bears uniform now? GTFO. Some of you are just so damn lost in your bear goggled minds that it drives me nuts. Two things: 1- No part of my post was defending Harry at all. 2- The self-righteous condescension is incredibly tiresome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Two things: 1- No part of my post was defending Harry at all. You haven't defended Harry at all? Okay then. 4 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: 2- The self-righteous condescension is incredibly tiresome. The deflect moment. The goto move when you nothing more to add to what I've said because you know it's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted August 9, 2022 Author Share Posted August 9, 2022 It's funny AZ, you tend to see everything with goggles on and everytime we sign a player you immediately mention their stats. But you didn't do this with Harry? Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 9 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I feel like you’re acting like WE spent the 1st rounder on him? I’m simply expressing doubt that Harry struggled due to NE’s “overly complex scheme.” The reasons he failed were cause for concern dating back to college. Bears gave up nothing for him so it would be great if he becomes something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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