Week 8: NE Pats vs NY Jets

[Bobby816]

13 minutes ago, rickyt31 said:

He's a mobile game manager right now. I'm happy he's made the progress to become a game manager, but I'm waiting on him to become more before I call him the franchise QB. I can't hype up 1TD and 58% comp in 4 games. Has all the tools, he just need to get it done. This is the perfect game for him to show us he's the one. 

But in reality this is the appropriate way to help a talented QB become a franchise QB. Very very rarely does a young QB come in the league and just look great from Day 1. Lots of factors go into things. The most talented QBs get drafted high. The worst teams are drafting the highest. So it's a talented young guy going generally speaking to an untalented team. So a turnover doesn't happen fast. CIN did it fast and we appear to be as well. But this transition generally takes years. Ours looks sped up bc of the draft capital and cap space we've had. I totally get the PTSD from the countless QBs we've drafted or signed that haven't worked. But for the 1st time we actually have a GM who gets it and has surrounded this team with talent to help the QB. Talent all over the place. Not just in certain areas. So while Zach isn't wining games for us yet. I believe he's learning things every game. Right now it appears to be taking care of the ball better. He has started 4 games and has 2 INTs, but really only 1 as a poor decision since the other hit off Conklin's hands and should've been caught, never mind intercepted. So in 4 games he really has 1 INT. He has 8 INTs in his 1st 4 games last year for example. And actually if you go back to the way he ended the season last year with a below average OL and most our weapons out injured he didn't throw any INTs the last 5 games of the season. So in his last 9 games he's started he's only thrown 1 INT really. So while he's not throwing for the TDs. He's not losing games for us either. And I believe the TDs will come for him. But he's gaining confidence every week. Wins multiply that confidence. 

[Rockice_8]

As bad as the raw numbers look he's like 21st in QBR and 23rd in YPA two really solid QB metrics which just puts him outside of that average 10-20 range group.  Last year he was last or second to last in both so there is clearly good progress despite people wanting to point to his 1 TD pass and passing yardage totals.

He's been great when kept clean and awful when pressured.  It's wild the difference but he just finished his 17th game and most young QBs don't handle pressure well.  Good news is that will improve with reps and more seasoning.  If he can just make an extra big play or two downfield or on 3rd down we'll be fine.  Keep them pinned deep and lean on the defense and run game until his time comes.  His low TOs are key to winning these games so he's doing just enough for now to keep winning.  We'll need more to really threaten BUF or KC but for now it's working.

[rickyt31]

50 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

But in reality this is the appropriate way to help a talented QB become a franchise QB. Very very rarely does a young QB come in the league and just look great from Day 1. Lots of factors go into things. The most talented QBs get drafted high. The worst teams are drafting the highest. So it's a talented young guy going generally speaking to an untalented team. So a turnover doesn't happen fast. CIN did it fast and we appear to be as well. But this transition generally takes years. Ours looks sped up bc of the draft capital and cap space we've had. I totally get the PTSD from the countless QBs we've drafted or signed that haven't worked. But for the 1st time we actually have a GM who gets it and has surrounded this team with talent to help the QB. Talent all over the place. Not just in certain areas. So while Zach isn't wining games for us yet. I believe he's learning things every game. Right now it appears to be taking care of the ball better. He has started 4 games and has 2 INTs, but really only 1 as a poor decision since the other hit off Conklin's hands and should've been caught, never mind intercepted. So in 4 games he really has 1 INT. He has 8 INTs in his 1st 4 games last year for example. And actually if you go back to the way he ended the season last year with a below average OL and most our weapons out injured he didn't throw any INTs the last 5 games of the season. So in his last 9 games he's started he's only thrown 1 INT really. So while he's not throwing for the TDs. He's not losing games for us either. And I believe the TDs will come for him. But he's gaining confidence every week. Wins multiply that confidence. 

I agree. He's making the steps and is on track, but I also remember when Sanchez had a hot start to a season. I believe it was like 8TDs and 0ints. Geno finishing his first season strong in the final 4 games. When he gets to that point where he is a top-15 QB, I will say he's the one. I'm not going to look at another stretch of the bare minimum and assume he will get there. I'm just going to wait until he gets there. He's going to get his year 3 unless he just falls a part this year. We will see then. 

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, rickyt31 said:

I agree. He's making the steps and is on track, but I also remember when Sanchez had a hot start to a season. I believe it was like 8TDs and 0ints. Geno finishing his first season strong in the final 4 games. When he gets to that point where he is a top-15 QB, I will say he's the one. I'm not going to look at another stretch of the bare minimum and assume he will get there. I'm just going to wait until he gets there. He's going to get his year 3 unless he just falls a part this year. We will see then. 

What Sanchez did years ago means nothing. This team is different. What we did as an organization in those days wasn't built to be a great team for a decade. It was built to have a dominant defense for a few years and run the ball. And we got Sanchez some vet help at WR to keep defenses honest.

This team is built to be great for a long time. Young talent everywhere. While the formula to win is similar between those years and this years, they're built very differently from a patience and longevity standpoint. 

[rickyt31]

19 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

What Sanchez did years ago means nothing. This team is different. What we did as an organization in those days wasn't built to be a great team for a decade. It was built to have a dominant defense for a few years and run the ball. And we got Sanchez some vet help at WR to keep defenses honest.

This team is built to be great for a long time. Young talent everywhere. While the formula to win is similar between those years and this years, they're built very differently from a patience and longevity standpoint. 

I'm not comparing the team, I'm giving an example of 2 other stretches where we thought we found our QB until they failed. The team overall is in a great position to win long term with or without Wilson. I'm not worried about that. The point is yes, Wilson is making progress and can be the guy. I'm just waiting on him to actually become it before I say he is instead of assuming he will be because he's young. 

[Rockice_8]

28 minutes ago, rickyt31 said:

I agree. He's making the steps and is on track, but I also remember when Sanchez had a hot start to a season. I believe it was like 8TDs and 0ints. Geno finishing his first season strong in the final 4 games. When he gets to that point where he is a top-15 QB, I will say he's the one. I'm not going to look at another stretch of the bare minimum and assume he will get there. I'm just going to wait until he gets there. He's going to get his year 3 unless he just falls a part this year. We will see then. 

Got to start somewhere.  

[Bobby816]

36 minutes ago, rickyt31 said:

I'm not comparing the team, I'm giving an example of 2 other stretches where we thought we found our QB until they failed. The team overall is in a great position to win long term with or without Wilson. I'm not worried about that. The point is yes, Wilson is making progress and can be the guy. I'm just waiting on him to actually become it before I say he is instead of assuming he will be because he's young. 

The way we run our offense and will for the foreseeable future won’t ever have Wilson putting up elite QB numbers regularly. We will always be a run 1st team. Wilson’s job will be to not lose games and to capitalize when teams force us to throw. As he develops I think he will do this. And when a team can’t load the box bc they’re scared of our QB and WRs it’s scary what a run game can do. And likewise the opposite way when Wilson reaches that level. Just takes a bit.

[NJerseypaint]

15 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

The way we run our offense and will for the foreseeable future won’t ever have Wilson putting up elite QB numbers regularly. We will always be a run 1st team. Wilson’s job will be to not lose games and to capitalize when teams force us to throw. As he develops I think he will do this. And when a team can’t load the box bc they’re scared of our QB and WRs it’s scary what a run game can do. And likewise the opposite way when Wilson reaches that level. Just takes a bit.

I'm fine with that to be honest, but I still want too see a nice floor to Zach's stats. If he can routinely go 250 yards, 1TD, 0INT - I'm happy with that. Because eventually the game will get easier and he can lean on his experience and earned knowledge to make the next step.

[Big T]

Here's why the Jets win this game, period. The Jets have the best CB tandem in the NFL, period. I expect this game to be a rerun of the Green Bay game.

The Jets D line is going to get after two inferior QB's. The Jets D is going to remember how N.E. ran up the score last year. Q is going to have a career statement game. 

The D is going to hold N.E. to a low point total. I expect a few INT's and few strip sacks, and at least 14 points from the D lone.

N.E. is notoriously bad against the run, and I expect the Jets will continue with the formula which has produced 4 straight wins. 

Lastly the so called experts have N.E. as a 2 point favorite to win at the Meadowlands. Final score Jets 27 -N.E.6

[rickyt31]

3 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

The way we run our offense and will for the foreseeable future won’t ever have Wilson putting up elite QB numbers regularly. We will always be a run 1st team. Wilson’s job will be to not lose games and to capitalize when teams force us to throw. As he develops I think he will do this. And when a team can’t load the box bc they’re scared of our QB and WRs it’s scary what a run game can do. And likewise the opposite way when Wilson reaches that level. Just takes a bit.

That's all I'm simply waiting for. When he gets to the level, I'll say he's the franchise guy. I'm not looking for elite, I'm just looking for top-15 play. I believe he is on track to be the next Eli Manning, but he isn't there yet. When he at least finishes with a better TD/INT ratio for the season, I'll say he is there. 

 

lmao the only time I'll be able to use this gif. 

[xrade]

3 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

He's been great when kept clean and awful when pressured

On clean-pocket pass attempts, Wilson has completed 53 of 70 passes (76%) for 639 yards, 1 touchdown, and 0 interceptions, giving him a passer rating of 108.0 that ranks sixth-best among 34 qualified QB’s.

Under pressure, he has completed 5 of 31 passes (16%) for 54 yards, 0 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions. He’s been sacked eight times for a loss of 54 yards, giving him a net total of zero yards when pressured.  Wilson is the worst under-pressure quarterback in the NFL. He ranks last out of 35 qualifiers in yards per attempt (1.7) and passer rating (12.7). It’s not even close in either category. He’s 1.5 yards per attempt behind the second-worst QB in that category and 23.0 points behind the second-worst QB in passer rating.

Opposing D game plan is simple,  pressure Wilson and he will suck.  Until he shows he can handle the pressure better, he will not be a good NFL QB.

 

[GangGreen420]

lol if Zach Wilson was playing as well as Sanchez was in year 2 this fan base would be counting the future trophies right now 

these next 3 games are going to show us a lot about him 

Edited October 25, 2022 by GangGreen420

[drew39k]

6 hours ago, ekill08x said:

If we only put up 13 against their defense we have a big time issue at QB. 

Or big time issues across the offensive line... Can't be successful at QB if you can't set your feet. The Patriots also have some ball hawk DBs that can make you pay for errant throws.

[KingOfNewYork]

56 minutes ago, xrade said:

On clean-pocket pass attempts, Wilson has completed 53 of 70 passes (76%) for 639 yards, 1 touchdown, and 0 interceptions, giving him a passer rating of 108.0 that ranks sixth-best among 34 qualified QB’s.

Under pressure, he has completed 5 of 31 passes (16%) for 54 yards, 0 touchdowns, and 2 interceptions. He’s been sacked eight times for a loss of 54 yards, giving him a net total of zero yards when pressured.  Wilson is the worst under-pressure quarterback in the NFL. He ranks last out of 35 qualifiers in yards per attempt (1.7) and passer rating (12.7). It’s not even close in either category. He’s 1.5 yards per attempt behind the second-worst QB in that category and 23.0 points behind the second-worst QB in passer rating.

Opposing D game plan is simple,  pressure Wilson and he will suck.  Until he shows he can handle the pressure better, he will not be a good NFL QB.

 

Some fans will say he needs to just play better under duress.

Some fans will say the line/MLF need to do a better job at giving him a clean pocket. 

Reality is, it is a mix of both however we can't fault him if the line isn't doing their jobs in pass pro. 

We also gotta realize our receivers aren't getting open consistently. It's a mix of everything with the passing offense. If the QB isn't playing well, the OL isn't pass-blocking well and the Receivers aren't getting open that falls back on MLF and the coaching staff. If Zach was struggling in a clean pocket that's different, if he had receivers getting 5 yards of separation and he's missing them that's different but our passing offense is so far behind the running game. 

Good news is we're 5-2 despite that, once the offense finds its rhythm we're going to be firing on all cylinders. 

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, GangGreen420 said:

lol if Zach Wilson was playing as well as Sanchez was in year 2 this fan base would be counting the future trophies right now 

these next 3 games are going to show us a lot about him 

I was gonna say why only 3 games then realized they're division games.