AZBearsFan Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Just now, StLunatic88 said: Mustipher to Whitehair is a significant upgrade. Even to just Patrick if that’s who it ends up being is and upgrade. And with the way they went about the OL market in Free Agency, I’d say Poles is completely comfortable having either one of those two as the starting Center in 2023. So we all should get used to that. Because as much as I like Tippmann, and how reliable of a Center Wylper might be in his career, anyone outside of John Michel Schmitz (or Skoronski if you’d shift him that fast) I’d have a very hard time seeing any of them being Day 1 starters at Center. I keep circling back to Stromberg and Oluwatimi as mid rounders to be brought in to compete at the position. Oluwatimi was at the Senior Bowl with Getsy (though on the other team). Getsy also had Steve Avila on his squad there who played a full season of C at TCU. JMS would be an ideal add at C, but any of those three along with Tippmann or Wypler to compete with Whitehair/Patrick with the plan to eventually take over there would be really solid IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 31 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: Mustipher to Whitehair is a significant upgrade. Even to just Patrick if that’s who it ends up being is and upgrade. And with the way they went about the OL market in Free Agency, I’d say Poles is completely comfortable having either one of those two as the starting Center in 2023. So we all should get used to that. Because as much as I like Tippmann, and how reliable of a Center Wylper might be in his career, anyone outside of John Michel Schmitz (or Skoronski if you’d shift him that fast) I’d have a very hard time seeing any of them being Day 1 starters at Center. Whitehair was bad much of last year. Back when he was center he was playing well as a OL, but at C he had snap issues and when he got that fixed his gun snaps were still slow - which disrupts play timing. I recall the OL improved much as a unit when they moved Whitehair to guard and brought Mustipher in to play C that year. Patrick was bad at guard last year. I don't have much confidence in either right now as a player. I have more confidence in Whitehair. Yes, rookie to center is a learning curve, but you have to start somewhere. So is rookie to OT. I say throw someone in deep end to learn to swim. I am not a big proponent of the whole watching thing. I think it was a mistake not putting Daniels at center from draft. Tippman, JMS and Avila all look better physically and athletically at this point than either Whitehair or Patrick. Yes, Whitehair and Patrick are likely better than Mustipher - but better than Mustipher still doesn't equal good or what I am looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Whitehair was bad much of last year. He absolutely was not. He was very solid to start the year, especially when you add in that he was holding down the Left side between a Rookie and Mustipher. Doubt any Gard had a harder job than that in 2022. Once he came back from injury, sure he was hampered. But if you are judging all of this based on plying back from an injury then we just need to stop these conversations. Speaking of… 16 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Patrick was bad at guard last year. He is a Center. He was signed to be a center. He then Hurt his hand beyond the ability to snap, so he was just trying to help where he could. To claim last year as any sort of baring on his ability as a Center is disingenuous. Again, we are not claiming they are studs, or the fixes to the OL. But they are NFL caliber players, who are solid/good enough to play for a year or so (assuming health) while we turn over this entire roster. We can not turn over an entire roster in 2 offseasons, especially when the first was mostly spent on clearing out bad contracts. This team isn’t going to be good in 2023. They may be exciting, but that doesn’t mean good. We should be going into this season expecting to have a pair of Top 15 picks (if not Top 10). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JibjeResearch Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 25 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Whitehair was bad much of last year. Back when he was center he was playing well as a OL, but at C he had snap issues and when he got that fixed his gun snaps were still slow - which disrupts play timing. I recall the OL improved much as a unit when they moved Whitehair to guard and brought Mustipher in to play C that year. Patrick was bad at guard last year. I don't have much confidence in either right now as a player. I have more confidence in Whitehair. Yes, rookie to center is a learning curve, but you have to start somewhere. So is rookie to OT. I say throw someone in deep end to learn to swim. I am not a big proponent of the whole watching thing. I think it was a mistake not putting Daniels at center from draft. Tippman, JMS and Avila all look better physically and athletically at this point than either Whitehair or Patrick. Yes, Whitehair and Patrick are likely better than Mustipher - but better than Mustipher still doesn't equal good or what I am looking for. The sooner we get rid of Whitehair, the sooner our OL can be strong. Neither, Patrick, Whitehair, nor Mustipher is strong. All of them must go. We need another Teven Jenkins at OC. This would make our OL mean and strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, JibjeResearch said: The sooner we get rid of Whitehair, the sooner our OL can be strong. Neither, Patrick, Whitehair, nor Mustipher is strong. All of them must go. We need another Teven Jenkins at OC. This would make our OL mean and strong. Agreed. I’d like a mean, strong OL that is healthy for 19 of their first 34 games 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 On 4/4/2023 at 1:15 PM, AZBearsFan said: Solid starter is the need. Stud linemen is a want. Everyone wants Trent Williams or Laremy Tunsil at OT but you don’t need that to be effective. John Tait was an OT for us for several years and he was never anything more than an average to slightly above average starter. He was solid and dependable and that’s it. Never went to a Pro Bowl. Was never named to any All Pro teams. Show me 5 OL at that level on the same team and I’ll show you a damn good offensive line. Here’s 5 guys I think are pretty middle of the road starters overall where they’re at in their respective careers as of today: LT Cam Robinson LG Mark Glowinski C David Andrews RG Alex Cappa RT Morgan Moses Setting aside scheme fits and just looking at caliber of player, you don’t think that group would be a consistently effective line? I sure do. Who’s the cornerstone stud there? Your argument might make sense if you have 5 John Tait level guys, bc he was closer to probowler than solid starter. We have to use our top assets for the trenches, you just can't go midrange there, esp with a young QB still developing in a perfect outcome we trade down from 9, still get our RT and then have another top30-40 pick in case there is a run on centers ! good news is that it looks like about 5 and 5 really good Cs and TEs, positions that seem to slide and get disrespected get the oline fixed for good now, focus on otherside next offseason OL most important now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Its much better to go spareparts DL right now bc we have Flus and give JF all he needs ...a top RT C and TE are all within reach and we won't have to pay CK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 7 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: He absolutely was not. He was very solid to start the year, especially when you add in that he was holding down the Left side between a Rookie and Mustipher. Doubt any Gard had a harder job than that in 2022. Once he came back from injury, sure he was hampered. But if you are judging all of this based on plying back from an injury then we just need to stop these conversations. Speaking of… He is a Center. He was signed to be a center. He then Hurt his hand beyond the ability to snap, so he was just trying to help where he could. To claim last year as any sort of baring on his ability as a Center is disingenuous. Again, we are not claiming they are studs, or the fixes to the OL. But they are NFL caliber players, who are solid/good enough to play for a year or so (assuming health) while we turn over this entire roster. We can not turn over an entire roster in 2 offseasons, especially when the first was mostly spent on clearing out bad contracts. This team isn’t going to be good in 2023. They may be exciting, but that doesn’t mean good. We should be going into this season expecting to have a pair of Top 15 picks (if not Top 10). You have a young developing QB… the OL should be one of the top priorities. You cannot continue to have Fields get killed while you overhaul the roster. Fix the OL, protect Fields, then go to work on other areas. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 We can all agree that regardless of resources that were available… what happened to Fields last season was unacceptable. We cannot spend 3/5 of Fields rookie contract watching him run for his life and get killed. No more stop gaps and good enough… protect him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JibjeResearch Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 16 hours ago, WindyCity said: We can all agree that regardless of resources that were available… what happened to Fields last season was unacceptable. We cannot spend 3/5 of Fields rookie contract watching him run for his life and get killed. No more stop gaps and good enough… protect him. I agree. #9 has to be an OT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 21 hours ago, WindyCity said: We cannot spend 3/5 of Fields rookie contract watching him run for his life and get killed The “Rookie QB contract” thing is a cop out for bad GMs. And the sooner you all quit trying to rely on that, the less ulcers you’ll cause yourselves. Because this roster trajectory is not set up to take advantage of Fields before he’s on his 5th year option at least 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 11 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: The “Rookie QB contract” thing is a cop out for bad GMs. And the sooner you all quit trying to rely on that, the less ulcers you’ll cause yourselves. Because this roster trajectory is not set up to take advantage of Fields before he’s on his 5th year option at least Aside from Mahomes (unicorn), Stafford 2 years ago and Brady(consistently made less than guys of his caliber), QB's who get paid what they do now typically don't get their teams back to consistently contending for Super Bowls. Look at Buffalo now. They let Edmunds walk & they couldn't add OL/RB/DL help. With all of that being said I don't disagree. My concern right now is helping Fields get that second deal. I don't think adding 1 OG does the trick. We'll see how the draft goes. If he continues to get creamed every Sunday and he doesn't develop more passing, this is all a moot discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 On 4/7/2023 at 1:42 PM, AZBearsFan said: I keep circling back to Stromberg and Oluwatimi as mid rounders to be brought in to compete at the position. Oluwatimi was at the Senior Bowl with Getsy (though on the other team). Getsy also had Steve Avila on his squad there who played a full season of C at TCU. JMS would be an ideal add at C, but any of those three along with Tippmann or Wypler to compete with Whitehair/Patrick with the plan to eventually take over there would be really solid IMO. I really like Avila and Tippman as long term NFL starters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkwdw13 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 28 minutes ago, dll2000 said: I really like Avila and Tippman as long term NFL starters. I love Tippman, even if he doesn't start from the get go this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted April 11, 2023 Share Posted April 11, 2023 What would be people’s thought on a Claypool + conditional 4-5RP for Hopkins trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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