turtle28 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, rizzy said: Yes the earlier version of Wentz in a pass happy offense with no or a non healthy Brian Robinson wasn't good enough. We'll see if he is able to able to be more effective in this version of the Offense hopefully having seen TH operate it while on the bench. We don't know how ready Howell is but it was clear after the Giants games that they needed to move on from TH. We ran for 142 yards vs Dallas & 130 yards vs the Bears. We were more run oriented in those games. The idea that Carson didn’t have a running game at all is a farse. I don’t think it was ultra clear that we needed to move on from Heinicke, our OL played as poorly vs the NYG & vs San Fran as they had vs Phila & Dallas earlier in the year. What killed us was the turnovers & awful officiating. If it’s an evenly officiated game & Heinicke doesn’t turn the ball over 2 fumbles at NYG & at home Vs the NYG plus a fumble & int at San Fran we may have won those games but the turnovers are a big reason we lost. Those 6 turnovers in 3 games were mostly Heinicke’s fault. That’s why he was replaced by Carson but, other than the turnovers, we moved the ball decently w/ Heinicke at QB. Edited December 29, 2022 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: Ugh. If by “extend,” they mean “forcibly renegotiate by insisting that he take a pay cut of about 50%,” then I’d be okay with that if he plays well. No one is giving this guy more than like 1/$12M on the open market, and honestly that’s probably a stretch unless he really balls out over the next 2-3 games. And any of those situations would involve competing for a starting gig. Agreeing to pay him any amount that is based on a contract he signed back in 2019 is absolutely asinine. Pay him what the market bears now, which is (a) short-term and (b) less than half of what he’s scheduled to get paid over the next two seasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzy Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, turtle28 said: We ran for 142 yards vs Dallas & 130 yards vs the Bears. We were more run oriented in those games. The idea that Carson didn’t have a running game at all is a farse. Sure and those are the outliers he normally has gotten 73, 65, 51, 28 yards not including himself and being forced to throw 40 times. I am not saying I know for sure he has improved or changed, I just know TH is not the fix and I don't care about everything breaking right and we drag into the playoffs and get knocked out in the first round. I am hoping with this new style of offense he will only throw it around 30 and be more efficient and not hero ball. They clearly overestimated the quality of the Oline coming into the year. Edited December 29, 2022 by rizzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 8 minutes ago, e16bball said: Ugh. If by “extend,” they mean “forcibly renegotiate by insisting that he take a pay cut of about 50%,” then I’d be okay with that if he plays well. No one is giving this guy more than like 1/$12M on the open market, and honestly that’s probably a stretch unless he really balls out over the next 2-3 games. And any of those situations would involve competing for a starting gig. Agreeing to pay him any amount that is based on a contract he signed back in 2019 is absolutely asinine. Pay him what the market bears now, which is (a) short-term and (b) less than half of what he’s scheduled to get paid over the next two seasons. This was why I always wanted him planted firmly on the bench. Rivera holds all the power and makes all the decisions. Rivera can very easily talk himself into picking up his option because frankly, why should he care? He'll most likely be gone anyway once new ownership takes over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 19 minutes ago, turtle28 said: We ran for 142 yards vs Dallas & 130 yards vs the Bears. We were more run oriented in those games. The idea that Carson didn’t have a running game at all is a farse. Come on now. They averaged 95.5 rushing yards per game with Wentz. They averaged 142.5 rushing yards per game with Heinicke. That’s convenient math, because it comes out to almost exactly 50% more rushing yards per game from Week 7 to Week 16. To demonstrate how much difference there is between those two numbers, let’s take note of the fact that 95.5 yards/game would rank 27th in the league, while 142.5 yards/game would rank 9th. Think there’s a difference between being able to rely on a top 10 run game vs. one of the league’s worst? And before we waste time with a red herring, Wentz actually ran for more yards per game than Heinicke has. It’s almost certainly the most disappointing thing with Heinicke this year — when he was at his best, his ability to run was his greatest weapon, but he just hasn’t done it this year (for whatever reason). Which makes him even more limited. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 14 minutes ago, e16bball said: Come on now. They averaged 95.5 rushing yards per game with Wentz. They averaged 142.5 rushing yards per game with Heinicke. That’s convenient math, because it comes out to almost exactly 50% more rushing yards per game from Week 7 to Week 16. To demonstrate how much difference there is between those two numbers, let’s take note of the fact that 95.5 yards/game would rank 27th in the league, while 142.5 yards/game would rank 9th. Think there’s a difference between being able to rely on a top 10 run game vs. one of the league’s worst? And before we waste time with a red herring, Wentz actually ran for more yards per game than Heinicke has. It’s almost certainly the most disappointing thing with Heinicke this year — when he was at his best, his ability to run was his greatest weapon, but he just hasn’t done it this year (for whatever reason). Which makes him even more limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Land Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 I'm going to make this my last argument (hopefully) because this is pointless. We KNOW what Heinicke is, we've seen him in what 24 games? Correct me if I'm wrong. Do we really know what Carson is? Yes we know he is inconsistent, but you can say the same thing about Taylor. The thing of it is, Carson's highs, are higher than Taylor's highs that's not arguable. His lows are probably lower though as well. So, if Carson gets hot, this offense is good enough to beat good teams because our defense should also be able to compete. Could Carson lose us games? Absolutely. Could he win us games himself? Absolutely. Can Taylor lose us games? Absolutely. Can Taylor win us games himself? I don't think so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHatesnyder Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: We ran for 142 yards vs Dallas & 130 yards vs the Bears. We were more run oriented in those games. The idea that Carson didn’t have a running game at all is a farse. I don’t think it was ultra clear that we needed to move on from Heinicke, our OL played as poorly vs them & vs San Fran as they had vs Phila & Dallas earlier in the year. What killed us was the turnovers & awful officiating. If it’s an evenly officiated game & Heinicke doesn’t turn the ball over 2 fumbles at NYG & at home Vs the NYG & a fumble & int at San Fran is a big reason we lost. Those 6 turnovers in 3 games were mostly Heinicke’s fault. That’s why he was replaced by Carson but, w/o they we moved the ball decently. We stopped running. The ball in the cowboys game and the OL wasn’t good same situation going on rn He’s thrown about 40 times a game I mean at this point just see what the dude can do. I’m all for howell next year tho if we don’t go for a QB. Much cheaper option also , just follow the eagles plan . Edited December 29, 2022 by IHatesnyder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHatesnyder Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Scott Land said: I'm going to make this my last argument (hopefully) because this is pointless. We KNOW what Heinicke is, we've seen him in what 24 games? Correct me if I'm wrong. Do we really know what Carson is? Yes we know he is inconsistent, but you can say the same thing about Taylor. The thing of it is, Carson's highs, are higher than Taylor's highs that's not arguable. His lows are probably lower though as well. So, if Carson gets hot, this offense is good enough to beat good teams because our defense should also be able to compete. Could Carson lose us games? Absolutely. Could he win us games himself? Absolutely. Can Taylor lose us games? Absolutely. Can Taylor win us games himself? I don't think so. Agreed , let’s just support our QBs . I’m wishing Carson the best I really hope at least the 2019 version can show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 2 hours ago, e16bball said: Come on now. They averaged 95.5 rushing yards per game with Wentz. They averaged 142.5 rushing yards per game with Heinicke. That’s convenient math, because it comes out to almost exactly 50% more rushing yards per game from Week 7 to Week 16. To demonstrate how much difference there is between those two numbers, let’s take note of the fact that 95.5 yards/game would rank 27th in the league, while 142.5 yards/game would rank 9th. Think there’s a difference between being able to rely on a top 10 run game vs. one of the league’s worst? And before we waste time with a red herring, Wentz actually ran for more yards per game than Heinicke has. It’s almost certainly the most disappointing thing with Heinicke this year — when he was at his best, his ability to run was his greatest weapon, but he just hasn’t done it this year (for whatever reason). Which makes him even more limited. My point wasn’t that they had a great run game when Carson was QB. My only point is for people to say that Carson didn’t have a run game in any game he played in, is untrue. If not for the run game in Dallas, we probably don’t even score a point. If not for the run game in Chicago we lose & we almost lost that game anyway. Without the defense we lose that game & the Bears beat themselves they didn’t kick field goals when they should have. If they kick 2 FGs inside the 10, we lose. Then, Carson’s record as a starter is a whopping 1-5 to start the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 59 minutes ago, IHatesnyder said: We stopped running. The ball in the cowboys game and the OL wasn’t good same situation going on rn He’s thrown about 40 times a game I mean at this point just see what the dude can do. I’m all for howell next year tho if we don’t go for a QB. Much cheaper option also , just follow the eagles plan . We stopped running the ball in the Dallas game bc we were down double digits after Carson threw the worst interception he or Heinicke threw all season at our own 25 yard line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 Just now, turtle28 said: We stopped running the ball in the Dallas game bc we were down double digits after Carson threw the worst interception he or Heinicke threw all season at our own 25 yard line. Beg to differ. The interception at the end of the Tenn. game .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Scott Land said: I'm going to make this my last argument (hopefully) because this is pointless. We KNOW what Heinicke is, we've seen him in what 24 games? Correct me if I'm wrong. Do we really know what Carson is? Yes we know he is inconsistent, but you can say the same thing about Taylor. The thing of it is, Carson's highs, are higher than Taylor's highs that's not arguable. His lows are probably lower though as well. So, if Carson gets hot, this offense is good enough to beat good teams because our defense should also be able to compete. Could Carson lose us games? Absolutely. Could he win us games himself? Absolutely. Can Taylor lose us games? Absolutely. Can Taylor win us games himself? I don't think so. Yes we know what Carson is. We have the tape from 2020, 21 & the first 6 games of 22. He’s average at best, he has awful pocket presence, he’s not mobile anymore, he’s not accurate & he struggles a lot & makes awful mistakes when pressured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 Just now, RSkinGM said: Beg to differ. The interception at the end of the Tenn. game .. that’s fair. Sorry, Wentz threw the two worst ints of this season for the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Land Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: Yes we know what Carson is. We have the tape from 2020, 21 & the first 6 games of 22. He’s average at best, he has awful pocket presence, he’s not mobile anymore, he’s not accurate & he struggles a lot & makes awful mistakes when pressured. And he's still better than Taylor Heinicke. You have that tape from him playing with other teams. Not Washington. I sure would take 27 TD's and 7 interceptions this year. Taylor is 32 TD's and 21 INT's in the last 2 years. Carson is 38 TD's and 13 INT's in the last 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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