Nabbs4u Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Far as I'm concerned Jones is thier FQB. Not seeing much difference from last year's Hurts and this years Jones TBH. Both QB did what was needed to win games and make the playoffs with the players they had in year 1. Now whether or not Danny can make the leap as a passer in year two of Daboll's system remains to be seen. My question is, the Giants denied to pick up his 5th year option. Can he be tagged? Is he a FA? Do Giants fans actually think he's going to take below market money? I don't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 45 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: Far as I'm concerned Jones is thier FQB. Not seeing much difference from last year's Hurts and this years Jones TBH. Both QB did what was needed to win games and make the playoffs with the players they had in year 1. Now whether or not Danny can make the leap as a passer in year two of Daboll's system remains to be seen. My question is, the Giants denied to pick up his 5th year option. Can he be tagged? Is he a FA? Do Giants fans actually think he's going to take below market money? I don't. Depends what you mean. What is the market money for a fringe top 12-15 QB? I see him getting an offer similar to Goff/Wentz/Dak. Anything more then that and I'm a no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrior723 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Nabbs4u said: Far as I'm concerned Jones is thier FQB. Not seeing much difference from last year's Hurts and this years Jones TBH. Both QB did what was needed to win games and make the playoffs with the players they had in year 1. Now whether or not Danny can make the leap as a passer in year two of Daboll's system remains to be seen. My question is, the Giants denied to pick up his 5th year option. Can he be tagged? Is he a FA? Do Giants fans actually think he's going to take below market money? I don't. As of now, I see him getting a deal for 5-6 years at QB 10-12 $$$ with potential to bump it up to QB 6-8 money with incentives. That's fair for both sides. If he balls out against you guys (one of the top defenses in the league) it will be even higher than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Me laughing 3 games into next season when Daniel Jones clearly sucks again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrior723 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Danger said: Me laughing 3 games into next season when Daniel Jones clearly sucks again. That could happen. Jalen Hurts could also suddenly start sucking or have a career altering injury. All cases would be unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, Shockwave said: Depends what you mean. What is the market money for a fringe top 12-15 QB? I see him getting an offer similar to Goff/Wentz/Dak. Anything more then that and I'm a no thanks. 24 minutes ago, w4rrior723 said: As of now, I see him getting a deal for 5-6 years at QB 10-12 $$$ with potential to bump it up to QB 6-8 money with incentives. That's fair for both sides. If he balls out against you guys (one of the top defenses in the league) it will be even higher than that. I think the contract starts at Daks $40M. I believe because of the ever growing cap and absurd QB salaries 40M will now be the 20M benchmark of a decade ago. Doesn't matter if Jones is worth it or not, he's in a contract negotiation. Could go the Kirk Cousins route, 3yr fully guaranteed at say 35M or we enter the 5yr 40M range with 120+ in guarantees. It boils down to Brian Daboll's belief either in Danny as the FQBOTF or not. Simple as that. Let's be real. That decision either way decides Daboll's long term future with the Giants as well. Despite what he's accomplished year 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Just now, w4rrior723 said: That could happen. Jalen Hurts could also suddenly start sucking or have a career altering injury. All cases would be unfortunate. Y'all hyping this man on a what.. 5-6 game streak of average numbers? Wow he beat the Vikings, the most fraudulent 13 win team in NFL history, the Colts? wooooow. The inept Washington Commanders who you tied with 2 weeks prior. Look, I'll be frank to say I'm glad you guys aren't completely irrelevant anymore, but please just slow the hype train on Daniel Jones. He's had a month and a half of adequate QB play. But let's not start pounding our chests that he's the 2nd coming of Eli. It's annoying. Respect is not given it is earned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, w4rrior723 said: It's not an apples to apples comparison. But if you're going to discredit Jones for playing great in his first playoff game, then you can't just ignore Hurts performance in his first playoff game. I understand it was year 4 vs year 2. But Hurts has clearly had a much better supporting cast and coaching around him - making it easier for him to perform and develop. Jones has had completely inept coaches and some of the worst passing weapons in the league to throw to in the last few years. I like Hurts a lot. He clearly has established himself as one of the top QBs in the league. But from my eyes, Jones has also shown that he is a franchise QB with his ability to carry the team. I'm curious, what leads you to the conclusion that Jones isn't a franchise passer? Aside from the obvious arm strength and accuracy he display on the eye test; this year he led the league in Int rate (1.1%) and passes on target (81%). Yes, he wasn't airing the ball out a ton. But it doesn't make sense to when he is throwing to practice squad guys. His arm talent is pretty obvious when you watch him play. The biggest issue he had has with passing is his decision making. That hasn't been an issue this year. I could be wrong. But I'm confident he will continue to get even better IMO he has already shown he is a legit franchise QB. I’m not discrediting him. I’m just surprised how amped Giants fans are getting because Jones “whopped” up on maybe the worst defense in the league. It’s a good stepping stone for Jones, regardless. Am just really shocked Giant fans are chirping so loud for him now. He’s played better, but nothing I would be lining up a contract for. Maybe we have different definitions of “franchise QB”? I dunno. @Shockwavecalled him a fringe 12-15 QB. I don’t really consider that a guy I’m signing up for 15 years of. That’s what I’d consider a franchise QB. I don’t know why I really have to reiterate this but a guy throwing 15 TDs and 3300 yards in a year isn’t screaming franchise QB. Call me crazy I guess. I would wholeheartedly agree he’s progressed and his weapons hinder, and that’s not his fault, but really good QBs find ways to elevate. I don’t see it in Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrior723 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: I think the contract starts at Daks $40M. I believe because of the ever growing cap and absurd QB salaries 40M will now be the 20M benchmark of a decade ago. Doesn't matter if Jones is worth it or not, he's in a contract negotiation. Could go the Kirk Cousins route, 3yr fully guaranteed at say 35M or we enter the 5yr 40M range with 120+ in guarantees. It boils down to Brian Daboll's belief either in Danny as the FQBOTF or not. Simple as that. Let's be real. That decision either way decides Daboll's long term future with the Giants as well. Despite what he's accomplished year 1. I agree with everything you said. Except, upper-mid tier contracts don't influence the market. The market is set by the top contracts and cascades down. Right now, it's set at $49-50m/year by Rodgers and Wilson. There has never been a QB without Pro-Bowls, All-Pros, or elite stats getting paid as top 5 in their position. I just don't see that happening. Edited January 20, 2023 by w4rrior723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Shockwave said: Pretty sure he has. From what I've seen and read reported he's absolutely enthralled with Jones. There is no doubt in my mind at this point DJ is getting a second contract. Question is time and money. It's a shame they waived his 5th year option but can't really blame them. The prior two seasons were rough. Can you expand on this? Is this a reference to Golladay? What’s Daboll gonna say? It’s ok to like Jones I guess. It’s ok to be wrong too. I might be wrong. But Daboll isn’t going to nitpick or critique his starting QB. It’s bad business. Proof is in the contract. We’ll see how much he thinks he NEEDS him. I doubt it’s very much at all. I would think a team that averages like 5 wins a year for 6 or so years wouldn’t really need much expounding. Golladay, drafting a RB so high, hiring Judge, letting Bradberry walk, OL issues, etc. I’m not going to sit here and tell you I know every move the Giants made and why they did it but it hasn’t seem to be working out lately. Is that a stretch or something? They’ve had plenty more problems over the last bunch of years than just Golladay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, w4rrior723 said: I agree with everything you said. Except, upper-mid tier contracts don't influence the market. The market is set by the top contracts and cascades down. Right now, it's set at $49-50m/year by Rodgers and Wilson. There has never been a QB without Pro-Bowls, All-Pros, or elite stats getting paid as top 5 in their position. I just don't see that happening. That kinda my point though. No one is suggesting DJ would ask for or demand Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Watson, Wilson (sucks) type numbers. Upwards of 45-50M However the lower tier of Dak, Cousins, Ryans, Carr will be the floor. Closer to the type of QB he is and contract he expects. I mean look at the 2023 contracts salaries for 2023. It's absurd. My God Dak salary next year. lol https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2023/cap-hit/quarterback/ Edited January 20, 2023 by Nabbs4u 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrior723 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: I’m not discrediting him. I’m just surprised how amped Giants fans are getting because Jones “whopped” up on maybe the worst defense in the league. It’s a good stepping stone for Jones, regardless. Am just really shocked Giant fans are chirping so loud for him now. He’s played better, but nothing I would be lining up a contract for. Maybe we have different definitions of “franchise QB”? I dunno. @Shockwavecalled him a fringe 12-15 QB. I don’t really consider that a guy I’m signing up for 15 years of. That’s what I’d consider a franchise QB. I don’t know why I really have to reiterate this but a guy throwing 15 TDs and 3300 yards in a year isn’t screaming franchise QB. Call me crazy I guess. I would wholeheartedly agree he’s progressed and his weapons hinder, and that’s not his fault, but really good QBs find ways to elevate. I don’t see it in Jones. That seems to be the case. I wouldn't say signing a QB for a 15 year deal is the determining factor being a FQB. I would say a Franchise QB is someone who has shown the ability to be the face of a franchise and lead them on the field and locker room for the foreseeable future. As of this moment, I would say he's top 15 at the position and trending up. With his leadership, grit, arm talent, build, and athleticism; I see top 5 potential with top 10 being very realistic. Will he reach that? I don't know. But I like what I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Jroc04 said: I would think a team that averages like 5 wins a year for 6 or so years wouldn’t really need much expounding. Golladay, drafting a RB so high, hiring Judge, letting Bradberry walk, OL issues, etc. I’m not going to sit here and tell you I know every move the Giants made and why they did it but it hasn’t seem to be working out lately. Is that a stretch or something? They’ve had plenty more problems over the last bunch of years than just Golladay. I mean all of that is true but also all of that was done by a previous GM who we absolutely loathed. As far as horrible contracts go though Golladay is the only one I find egregious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 It is nerve racking not knowing what kind of Jalen Hurts and Lane Johnson we will see tomorrow night? Only reason I'm not more confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, w4rrior723 said: That seems to be the case. I wouldn't say signing a QB for a 15 year deal is the determining factor being a FQB. I would say a Franchise QB is someone who has shown the ability to be the face of a franchise and lead them on the field and locker room for the foreseeable future. As of this moment, I would say he's top 15 at the position and trending up. With his leadership, grit, arm talent, build, and athleticism; I see top 5 potential with top 10 being very realistic. Will he reach that? I don't know. But I like what I've seen. Well, isn’t it though? I’m not talking about commercial deals. I’m talking about results and winning football games. If you would sign up for 10-15 years of a QB then I’d think you can consider him a franchise QB. A guy that will basically be apart of your FO, essentially. Anything less and maybe you’re not too sure about his abilities I’d think. But I clearly see we think differently about the term here. I mean anyone can be a franchise QB if you’re team is stupid enough to sign him up for that long. Andy’s Dalton comes to mind. Though that’s a little harsh on Andy. But I’m talking more caliber and confidence than I am make-up and perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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