downundermike Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, Kiltman said: Just saw this and thought it was worth sharing. Doesn’t change anything, but some insight hopefully to JD learning some stuff and having a big year two. My issue with Davis, and Howie's draft philosophy in general, to many picks, regardless of round are drafted "for the future". 1st 3 picks last year, all drafted to sit for the future. 21 - Devonta was drafted to start from day 1, but Dickerson was drafted for the future, and only started out of necessity. 20 - Reagor was a project by the Eagles own admission, Hurts and Taylor were not drafted to contribute year 1. 19 - traded up for Dillard to sit for a year. Just once, I would like a draft class that multiple guys contribute year 1. Look at the Hawks draft class last year. Walker and Woolen were finalists for OROY and DROY. Coby Bryant played a bunch of snaps and played well, and they started two rookies on the offensive line who faired well. With the holes we have to fill on defense, the picks this year have to come in and contribute day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, downundermike said: My issue with Davis, and Howie's draft philosophy in general, to many picks, regardless of round are drafted "for the future". 1st 3 picks last year, all drafted to sit for the future. 21 - Devonta was drafted to start from day 1, but Dickerson was drafted for the future, and only started out of necessity. 20 - Reagor was a project by the Eagles own admission, Hurts and Taylor were not drafted to contribute year 1. 19 - traded up for Dillard to sit for a year. Just once, I would like a draft class that multiple guys contribute year 1. Look at the Hawks draft class last year. Walker and Woolen were finalists for OROY and DROY. Coby Bryant played a bunch of snaps and played well, and they started two rookies on the offensive line who faired well. With the holes we have to fill on defense, the picks this year have to come in and contribute day 1. The 21 draft literally had multiple starters year one..... and a couple legit role players.... that is a lot of contribution from rookies lol. The draft is literally only for the future. That is the entire point of the draft. The best teams aren't starting 3-4 rookies because the rookies literally aren't ready to contribute at a high level outside of outliers and true elite prospects that you can typically only get in the first 10 picks. That doesn't excuse whiffs, but the reality is that most rookies just aren't ready to be high level NFL players in year one, even some very good prospects. Obviously some positions are more Day 1 ready like RB and OG, but those also tend to be less valuable positions. The draft the Seahawks had this past year is simply not the norm. That is an extremely unique draft with tons of nice finds. How often are you finding CB1 as a rookie in the 5th round? Would it be awesome to have that much production from rookies? Ya. Is that a realistic expectation to have for a draft class? Absolutely not. It simply isn't going to happen often at all league wide. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiltman Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, downundermike said: My issue with Davis, and Howie's draft philosophy in general, to many picks, regardless of round are drafted "for the future". 1st 3 picks last year, all drafted to sit for the future. 21 - Devonta was drafted to start from day 1, but Dickerson was drafted for the future, and only started out of necessity. 20 - Reagor was a project by the Eagles own admission, Hurts and Taylor were not drafted to contribute year 1. 19 - traded up for Dillard to sit for a year. Just once, I would like a draft class that multiple guys contribute year 1. Look at the Hawks draft class last year. Walker and Woolen were finalists for OROY and DROY. Coby Bryant played a bunch of snaps and played well, and they started two rookies on the offensive line who faired well. With the holes we have to fill on defense, the picks this year have to come in and contribute day 1. A healthy mix would be nice. Some of what you listed though for the Seahawks were poor roster management and luck. Looking at the Howie Redux era, I’m all for him taking a guy to start soon over a need to play guy…cause that’s where he misses the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 You hope to be taking impact players in the early rounds, that can contribute right away in the first couple of rounds, and then pick high potential guys in the later rounds that if they pan out could become gems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jroc04 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 13 hours ago, Jeezla said: Yes it was. Rookie surrounded by Cox, Hargrave, Suh, etc, and playing limited snaps. Also had his teammate from college there to comfort him. What would be a better situation for a rookie? I literally can't think of a better situation to be in for a rookie DT. That's as ideal as it gets. My point was, having to compete with pro bowlers on a team looking to compete for a SB will limit his snaps. If he were on the Texans you could live with the growing pains. Didn’t help he got hurt and Howie signed two DTs that were vaulted ahead of him either. He needs some time. I don’t know why there’s some pressure to be an all pro your first year. I don’t know anyone who’s expected to be polished at 23. 13 hours ago, Jeezla said: Is it wayyyyyyy to early to be out on Brian Bresee as well? He hasn't even been drafted yet. It was also too early to be out on JJAW, Dillard, and Reagor after 1 year, yet you wouldn't have been wrong. I mean, yea. Everyone has their assessments I guess. But Bresee hasn’t stepped a foot on an NFL field. I’d imagine he should get an opportunity before being written off. Is that crazy? I think people wrote off Graham, right? Of course there’s more busts than booms but giving examples of busts doesn’t mean you’re not being dramatic or pre mature. People wrote off Hurts. Hell, I basically did. Kelce, Graham, Jurgens, Sweat, TJ and more all needed some time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 The ankle injury kind of railroaded Davis rookie year. He was trending up and looking really good until the injury and then subsequent outside reinforcements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadway Joe Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: The draft is literally only for the future. That's like two hyperboles in such a short sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalamania Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: The draft is literally only for the future. That is the entire point of the draft. The best teams aren't starting 3-4 rookies because the rookies literally aren't ready to contribute at a high level outside of outliers and true elite prospects that you can typically only get in the first 10 picks. That doesn't excuse whiffs, but the reality is that most rookies just aren't ready to be high level NFL players in year one, even some very good prospects. Obviously some positions are more Day 1 ready like RB and OG, but those also tend to be less valuable positions. Didn't the Chiefs just start 4-5 rookies in the Super Bowl? I think the mindset of the players coming out aren't ready to start day 1 and make an impact is outdated. With that being said, I think it's fair to say Davis underwhelmed but he absolutely deserves a second year before any distinction is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downundermike Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Scalamania said: Didn't the Chiefs just start 4-5 rookies in the Super Bowl? Rd 1 - Trent McDuffie played 100% of the snaps Rd 1 - George Karlaftis played 51% of the snaps Rd 2 - Skyy Moore TD catch Rd 2 - 22 ST snaps Bryan Cook 1 tackle Rd 3 - Leo Chanel 6 tackles and a sack Rd 4 - Joshua Williams 4 tackles Rd 7 - Jaylen Watson 3 tackles Rd 7 - Isiah Pacheco ran all over us Rd 7 - Nazeeh Johnson 17 ST snaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, downundermike said: Rd 1 - Trent McDuffie played 100% of the snaps Rd 1 - George Karlaftis played 51% of the snaps Rd 2 - Skyy Moore TD catch Rd 2 - 22 ST snaps Bryan Cook 1 tackle Rd 3 - Leo Chanel 6 tackles and a sack Rd 4 - Joshua Williams 4 tackles Rd 7 - Jaylen Watson 3 tackles Rd 7 - Isiah Pacheco ran all over us Rd 7 - Nazeeh Johnson 17 ST snaps Could I list the All Pro's and Pro Bowlers the Eagles had starting in place of our Rookies in the SB? Hargrave-Davis Kelce-Jurgens Edwards-Dean Reddick-Johnson Goedert-Calcaterra The Chiefs were forced to start that many Rookies because of the players they lost and obvious holes they had on thuer team. Not one player drafted by the Eagles, was to fill a 2022 hole. 2023? Yes. Edited February 22, 2023 by Nabbs4u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downundermike Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said: Could I list the All Pro's and Pro Bowlers the Eagles had starting in place of our Rookies in the SB? Hargrave-Davis Kelce-Jurgens Edwards-Dean Reddick-Johnson Goedert-Calcaterra Would it be impolite to point out how all the all pro's and pro bowlers on defense still have not come out of the locker room for the second half of the Super Bowl ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Scalamania said: Didn't the Chiefs just start 4-5 rookies in the Super Bowl? I think the mindset of the players coming out aren't ready to start day 1 and make an impact is outdated. With that being said, I think it's fair to say Davis underwhelmed but he absolutely deserves a second year before any distinction is made. They started two rookies. Both were first rounders. What an absolute shocker lol. I am not saying players coming out aren't ready to contribute year one. I am highlighting this idea that you draft rookies to produce in year one as being wrong. You aren't getting stud rookies very often. You can get competent starters in round one who can develop into more. Relying on rookies to start year one a lot of the time means you are going to have holes in your football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Wonder if Robert Woods would come here to be a slot WR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, downundermike said: Rd 1 - Trent McDuffie played 100% of the snaps Rd 1 - George Karlaftis played 51% of the snaps Rd 2 - Skyy Moore TD catch Rd 2 - 22 ST snaps Bryan Cook 1 tackle Rd 3 - Leo Chanel 6 tackles and a sack Rd 4 - Joshua Williams 4 tackles Rd 7 - Jaylen Watson 3 tackles Rd 7 - Isiah Pacheco ran all over us Rd 7 - Nazeeh Johnson 17 ST snaps This is so silly lol. We really counting ST snaps as if our rookies didn't also participate there. The only rookie we drafted that didn't play at all in the SB was Kyron Johnson. We even had two UDFA's play over 20 snaps in Jobe and Blankenship! The reality is the guys we drafted had better players ahead of them. Davis is supposed to be eating a ton of snaps from Fletch and Hargrave? Jurgens is supposed to start over Kelce? Dean arguably could have started over White but they clearly trusted White more. Pointing to our rookie class as some massive underperformance is being misinformed at best and pushing a false narrative at worst. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Broadway Joe said: That's like two hyperboles in such a short sentence. This also happens to be a completely useless post and waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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