2023 NFL offseason

[Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420]

3 hours ago, John232 said:

I just ripped a massive bowl, but I want to respond back 

Nice, I took a nap instead of watching the video...I'll get on it now.

[757-NINER]

4 hours ago, Forge said:

I like JTO, but definitely some things to poke at here with the idea that Shanny's passing game is archaic. Greg Roman's passing offense is archaic and unimaginative. I get why people may think that Shanny's passing offense is uninspired given that he relies so much on simple route concepts and the like that are pretty standard and simple (We run a ton of in breakers and the like, for example), but Shanny also knows that they consistently work. There's no reason to fix what isn't broken, so what Shanny does is add his creativity pre snap in getting the matchups he wants and the position / route combinations that stress a specific defender. Both of these things put them out of position.  It's really hard to argue with what Shanny does given the results. He's basically fielded one of the most efficient passing offenses in the league with a lot of just okay starting QBs. Like, the last two years he's generating a higher dropback EPA than a team like Cincinnati who has one of the best QBs in the league along with one of the best 1-2 receiver punches in the NFL. They've been a top 5 passing offense over the last 4 years (by epa) and their best QB has been Jimmy. That's impressive. 

I do think that there's something to be said about the QB injuries and what's going on there, but given that they are so different in their happening, I'm not sure what can be gleaned from them. The UCLs are about as freakish as you can get all things considered, but after that the injuries are pretty random. Jimmy and RG3 popped knees on plays that were pretty harmless, and other injuries just have a lot to do with how QBs are just brought down. Schaub got driven into the ground on a sack which popped his shoulder (similar to Jimmy's injury in NE). Jimmy hurt his shoulder falling awkwardly while trying to protect his thumb against Dallas.  Jimmy's had multiple ankle injuries. The one against Miami (most recent) Jerome Baker's knee basically trapped Jimmy's ankle against the turf and snap. We see that injury often enough especially when get dragged down from behind (similar to the Tony Pollard injury, tbh, though it resulted in a broken leg and high ankle sprain). Jimmy's ankle sprain against the Jets was a big nothing burger in terms of scope of the play. He was in the pocket and got gobbled up the same field that took out 4 people that game - two to knees and two to ankles. The ones you can probably hang on him the most are the Lance injuries, and I definitely don't feel confident putting that second one on him (The cardinals one was bad though, imo...just no reason to run him that much while ignoring the running backs lol). 

If there's one thing that I do agree with Rob Guerrera on regarding Shanny though, is that he seems to be content with 'good enough'. Like, Shanny's offense is good enough so he doesn't need to change anything. Shanny's QBs have been good enough, so there's no reason to try Trey Lance when you know Purdy is "good enough". You don't need to go for those 4th and shorts because you know your offense is "good enough" even when he is as conservative as he is. There's a lot of arrogance and smugness with Kyle for sure. 

The thing with the passing offense is that it is very much in lock-step with the run game. That's partly why it is so efficient. But I've always worried about the passing offense being a direct by product of the run game and how against better defenses, it can stifle productivity.

Like when we are in games where we're trailing and have to create some chunk plays through the air. That's an real issue for this team, regardless who's the QB. I thought it was telling when Benkert mentioned that Shanny doesn't practice 2 min situations...like at all. That explains alot why we look so disjointed when put in those scenarios and his end-of-half game management seems like an afterthought much of the time.

I think Shanny is perfectly fine dying on the sword that is his scheme, for better or for worst. It's one of the reasons I think we'll never see anyone but him call plays. But I can definitely see why JTO and others have visions that it could  be even better if Shanny got off his smug high horse and tweaked things here and there.

 

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Like when we are in games where we're trailing and have to create some chunk plays through the air. That's an real issue for this team, regardless who's the QB. I thought it was telling when Benkert mentioned that Shanny doesn't practice 2 min situations...like at all. That explains alot why we look so disjointed when put in those scenarios and his end-of-half game management seems like an afterthought much of the time.

 

Yeah, I could see that. One of the worst performances I've ever seen from Shanny was the 4th quarter of that Atlanta game. Down multiple scores and there was just no urgency in his playcalling or offensive game management. Like at all. It was like he was refusing to move off what he wanted to do. Was kind of crazy, to be honest. 

[JIllg]

4 hours ago, Forge said:

I like JTO, but definitely some things to poke at here with the idea that Shanny's passing game is archaic. Greg Roman's passing offense is archaic and unimaginative. I get why people may think that Shanny's passing offense is uninspired given that he relies so much on simple route concepts and the like that are pretty standard and simple (We run a ton of in breakers and the like, for example), but Shanny also knows that they consistently work. There's no reason to fix what isn't broken, so what Shanny does is add his creativity pre snap in getting the matchups he wants and the position / route combinations that stress a specific defender. Both of these things put them out of position.  It's really hard to argue with what Shanny does given the results. He's basically fielded one of the most efficient passing offenses in the league with a lot of just okay starting QBs. Like, the last two years he's generating a higher dropback EPA than a team like Cincinnati who has one of the best QBs in the league along with one of the best 1-2 receiver punches in the NFL. They've been a top 5 passing offense over the last 4 years (by epa) and their best QB has been Jimmy. That's impressive. 

I do think that there's something to be said about the QB injuries and what's going on there, but given that they are so different in their happening, I'm not sure what can be gleaned from them. The UCLs are about as freakish as you can get all things considered, but after that the injuries are pretty random. Jimmy and RG3 popped knees on plays that were pretty harmless, and other injuries just have a lot to do with how QBs are just brought down. Schaub got driven into the ground on a sack which popped his shoulder (similar to Jimmy's injury in NE). Jimmy hurt his shoulder falling awkwardly while trying to protect his thumb against Dallas.  Jimmy's had multiple ankle injuries. The one against Miami (most recent) Jerome Baker's knee basically trapped Jimmy's ankle against the turf and snap. We see that injury often enough especially when get dragged down from behind (similar to the Tony Pollard injury, tbh, though it resulted in a broken leg and high ankle sprain). Jimmy's ankle sprain against the Jets was a big nothing burger in terms of scope of the play. He was in the pocket and got gobbled up the same field that took out 4 people that game - two to knees and two to ankles. The ones you can probably hang on him the most are the Lance injuries, and I definitely don't feel confident putting that second one on him (The cardinals one was bad though, imo...just no reason to run him that much while ignoring the running backs lol). 

If there's one thing that I do agree with Rob Guerrera on regarding Shanny though, is that he seems to be content with 'good enough'. Like, Shanny's offense is good enough so he doesn't need to change anything. Shanny's QBs have been good enough, so there's no reason to try Trey Lance when you know Purdy is "good enough". You don't need to go for those 4th and shorts because you know your offense is "good enough" even when he is as conservative as he is. There's a lot of arrogance and smugness with Kyle for sure. 

I do think that JTO also got sidetracked hard regarding nepotism if that wasn't intended to be an April Fools meme. Like, nepotism gets you through the door the first time, but results earn you the sort of respect and authority Kyle gets to not have to listen to important pieces of criticism. Even if those results aren't drop back passing pretty. Top 5 offenses helmed by Jimmy G and an all world offense with Matt Ryan that everyone branches off of does that. Kyle could absolutely deserve some zing for heavily favoring friends of his family with coaching staff hires. He's going through all of the LaFleurs and the Kubiaks and so forth. But Kyle's also been the most successful guy in the NFL at getting coaches to perform so well that they get poached. There's some nepotism in the opportunity, sure. But the coaches he's hired have performed brilliantly. So all around, weird thing to ding Kyle specifically for when Jay Gruden and Mike Shula exist. He deserves the ding for getting a little high on his own supply and not listening to some guidance on 4th down decisions and deserves criticism for not being more dedicated to chasing quarterback upside. He needs to have a straitjacket preventing him from pushing for running backs in the third round ever again. But there are dudes with way worse flaws and/or way less upside. 

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, JIllg said:

I do think that JTO also got sidetracked hard regarding nepotism if that wasn't intended to be an April Fools meme. Like, nepotism gets you through the door the first time, but results earn you the sort of respect and authority Kyle gets to not have to listen to important pieces of criticism. Even if those results aren't drop back passing pretty. Top 5 offenses helmed by Jimmy G and an all world offense with Matt Ryan that everyone branches off of does that. Kyle could absolutely deserve some zing for heavily favoring friends of his family with coaching staff hires. He's going through all of the LaFleurs and the Kubiaks and so forth. But Kyle's also been the most successful guy in the NFL at getting coaches to perform so well that they get poached. There's some nepotism in the opportunity, sure. But the coaches he's hired have performed brilliantly. So all around, weird thing to ding Kyle specifically for when Jay Gruden and Mike Shula exist. He deserves the ding for getting a little high on his own supply and not listening to some guidance on 4th down decisions and deserves criticism for not being more dedicated to chasing quarterback upside. He needs to have a straitjacket preventing him from pushing for running backs in the third round ever again. But there are dudes with way worse flaws and/or way less upside. 

Such a great turn of phrase regarding Shanny

[Steve_DeBerg_Fan_420]

32 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

The thing with the passing offense is that it is very much in lock-step with the run game. That's partly why it is so efficient. But I've always worried about the passing offense being a direct by product of the run game and how against better defenses, it can stifle productivity.

Like when we are in games where we're trailing and have to create some chunk plays through the air. That's an real issue for this team, regardless who's the QB. I thought it was telling when Benkert mentioned that Shanny doesn't practice 2 min situations...like at all. That explains alot why we look so disjointed when put in those scenarios and his end-of-half game management seems like an afterthought much of the time.

I think Shanny is perfectly fine dying on the sword that is his scheme, for better or for worst. It's one of the reasons I think we'll never see anyone but him call plays. But I can definitely see why JTO and others have visions that it could  be even better if Shanny got off his smug high horse and tweaked things here and there.

 

The drop back passing game just isn't something the team does a lot of.  The running game, sets up the blocking, sets up the routs, sets up the rac.  We bring in guys who are really good at those things. 

The arm strength of the qb's this team has makes it hard to carve up today's NFL zones.  We'll see of Pance or Darnold can add that element, and if ots something Shanahan is interested in implementing.

 

Aiyuk was wide open on the route concept where Purdy got hurt.  It's four long steps, three quick step, hitch hitch corner.  Bill Walsh does a tutorial on that play.  If Purdy would have hitched or put out a ball fake to Deebo, it might have helped.  That's asking too much though,  the play action, the drop, the other action, then the hitches.  Damn.  I'm not mad about it.  Shanahan works hard to think of new pa concepts. 

I was, however, very annoyed about Lance's injury.  A 2nd and 8 power run with a tackle to center pull.  He was just running Lance too much.  I don't want to hear "he was drafted to be......."  He should have been out there running the offense, not some qb power nonsense.  Trey Lance is a pocket passer with athleticism, but he's not a dynamic running threat at this level.  Calling plays for imaginary Trey Lance is classic Shanahan arrogance.  Im not mad about this one either, Shanahan wouldn't be himself without his stubborn confidence.  

Jimmy G gets hurt most years.  I'm not sure if deebo was supposed to be hot, or if jg should've been looking at McCaffrey.  There was a hot route in place.  Purdy would found it. 

Josh Joshson look like he was diving on his sword. 

 

[Forge]

I still feel like this would be a crazy development to some extent. Would basically be turning over the entire QB room during the offseason and would need to add 2 more Quarterbacks just to get through it while Purdy recovers. But man, people really are talking about this like its something that could happen.

[757-NINER]

53 minutes ago, Forge said:

I still feel like this would be a crazy development to some extent. Would basically be turning over the entire QB room during the offseason and would need to add 2 more Quarterbacks just to get through it while Purdy recovers. But man, people really are talking about this like its something that could happen.

I mean it's the off-season. This is what ppl.do....drum up narratives. 

Like, I don't see why everyone was so thrown off by the Darnold signing. 

With the way last season ended, it should have been clear that we were going to go out and sign a vet QB with a pulse. They were not going to just make Lance the back-up by default. Especially when he hasn't proven he can stay healthy. And they were not going to go sign another Josh Johnson type, who couldn't run the offense when called upon.

For Darnold, this move makes perfect sense. You come to play in a offense where you don't have to really do any heavy lifting. The run game and scheme gives you maximum opportunity to put up numbers and resurrect your valve. All this, while competing against two young QBs who have yet to prove they can stay healthy. And one of which will be out the entire off-season. Even if you're not QB1 or QB2 to start the season, you have to think at some point you'll get a chance to play with the health concerns of the QBs in front of you. There wasn't a clear path to see playing time at any other landing spot in the league besides this one. No one was bringing him in to compete for QB1. The consideration of him as a QB1 is pretty much gone at this point. Despite what either Lynch or Shanny says, everyone knows if Brock were healthy he would be the defacto QB1.  And no other back-up gig had the potential to pan out in Darnold's favor like it does here. So this whole 'We're so shocked the Niners signed Darnold' is just the most non-story ever.

I don't think it makes sense to trade Lance right now .

As we get closer to TC and can see how Purdy is coming along and who we have in the QB room after the draft? Maybe.....for the right price.

But right now, its just a bunch of conjecture by ppl trying way too hard to read into things. I makes more sense to let Lance and Darnold compete all off-season and keep each other on their respective toes and hope that competition gives us some elevated QB play in the near future.

[Forge]

37 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I mean it's the off-season. This is what ppl.do....drum up narratives. 

Like, I don't see why everyone was so thrown off by the Darnold signing. 

With the way last season ended, it should have been clear that we were going to go out and sign a vet QB with a pulse. They were not going to just make Lance the back-up by default. Especially when he hasn't proven he can stay healthy. And they were not going to go sign another Josh Johnson type, who couldn't run the offense when called upon.

For Darnold, this move makes perfect sense. You come to play in a offense where you don't have to really do any heavy lifting. The run game and scheme gives you maximum opportunity to put up numbers and resurrect your valve. All this, while competing against two young QBs who have yet to prove they can stay healthy. And one of which will be out the entire off-season. Even if you're not QB1 or QB2 to start the season, you have to think at some point you'll get a chance to play with the health concerns of the QBs in front of you. There wasn't a clear path to see playing time at any other landing spot in the league besides this one. No one was bringing him in to compete for QB1. The consideration of him as a QB1 is pretty much gone at this point. Despite what either Lynch or Shanny says, everyone knows if Brock were healthy he would be the defacto QB1.  And no other back-up gig had the potential to pan out in Darnold's favor like it does here. So this whole 'We're so shocked the Niners signed Darnold' is just the most non-story ever.

I don't think it makes sense to trade Lance right now .

As we get closer to TC and can see how Purdy is coming along and who we have in the QB room after the draft? Maybe.....for the right price.

But right now, its just a bunch of conjecture by ppl trying way too hard to read into things. I makes more sense to let Lance and Darnold compete all off-season and keep each other on their respective toes and hope that competition gives us some elevated QB play in the near future.

I think that there is even less reason to move him that late in the off season to be honest. At least not without someone getting hurt on another team. Roster spots and starting gigs are toast, there will be no real demand to trade for him. 

My expectation is that he gets moved next year for like a 4th or a 5th unless he can manage unless he really comes out this year and is able to show something that would make other teams want to take a chance. I would assume that the niners really just prefer to have the 5.3 million in space they get from trading him, so it'll be more about creating that room than it will be getting anything of real value for him. 

[N4L]

@John232

[John232]

17 hours ago, N4L said:

@John232

Wish I could **** post like that.

[Ataal]

19 hours ago, N4L said:

@John232

That whiskey bottle comment was just uncalled for.  😂

[N4L]

2 hours ago, John232 said:

Wish I could **** post like that.

Whatever you say, John3842931 

[StevenK]

Rumors are we maybe interested in trading for Kirk Cousins or A-a-ron (if NYJ doesn’t get him). Umm who turned off the Salary cap?! 

[Forge]

23 minutes ago, StevenK said:

Rumors are we maybe interested in trading for Kirk Cousins or A-a-ron (if NYJ doesn’t get him). Umm who turned off the Salary cap?! 

Yeah, not a real thing for cousins, I would imagine. At least not until after June for Minnesota. He's like 20 million more for then to trade right now than to keep. 

I wouldn't expect any real QB movement. I think this is right where the team wants to be with regards to the QB room and salary cap