Raiders bring back OL stud Alex Bars

[Rolni]

Solid move if he is back as interior OL depth.

I will be mad if he starts tho...

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Nice photo and all but ain’t anyone buy you believing this FA period was a win.  
Explain to us how Jimmy G, Epps (a safety that can cover as good as Jonathan Abram), Austin Hooper+OJ Howard, and bringing back losers like Parker and Bars will prove to be some next level Jedi Mind trick.  
Oh wait, excuse me for forgetting the big moves like Jordan Willis and resigning Tillery.  And we should just trust the past FA success of the FO with last years great signings like Nichols (6.8M cap hit) and Chandler Jones (19.3M), who is either another 20m in ‘24 Or a 7M cap hit to release in the last year of his deal.

why spend 10m on a good starting DT, probably our biggest position of need when you can spend it on Nichols and Tillery?  That Alone has to convince everyone of this FO playing 4D chess.

We had the most basic itch free agency ever and we’re not even Going to be carrying over a Large unspent amount of cap space into the following year.

And I want to like Ziegs, I truly do! 
 

"Winning" FA should not be the goal. How many times do you you all need to see the Raiders spend and "win" in FA only to have it be a complete bust before you realize good teams are built through the draft?

The roster is a mess in part because the previous regime tried to fill every hole in FA where statistically 50% of signings never pan out. Then you're left paying dead money to scrubs like Littleton until 2025!

This FA period was about getting better depth on the roster. Guys who like to compete, fill out the roster and  start as needed. Now they can focus on the draft where they can easily add their CB1, Dline, etc. in the top 100 picks to start.

Draft and develop is the way good teams stay on top. The problem with a lot of you is you want instant gratification. 

 

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

"Winning" FA should not be the goal. How many times do you you all need to see the Raiders spend and "win" in FA only to have it be a complete bust before you realize good teams are built through the draft?

The roster is a mess in part because the previous regime tried to fill every hole in FA where statistically 50% of signings never pan out. Then you're left paying dead money to scrubs like Littleton until 2025!

This FA period was about getting better depth on the roster. Guys who like to compete, fill out the roster and  start as needed. Now they can focus on the draft where they can easily add their CB1, Dline, etc. in the top 100 picks to start.

Draft and develop is the way good teams stay on top. The problem with a lot of you is you want instant gratification. 

 

That’s all well and good and I don’t disagree with the principal, however, FA has not filled out DT or IOL when there were cheap guys available who are undoubtedly upgrades on guys like Bars. I agree with the thoughts that great teams are built through the draft and this regime was hamstrung by the old but it doesn’t excuse signing a dozen WRs and not addressing the trenches in the manner you described above. 

Obviously, plenty of time left, however it’s not just time as the better players and better value players do tend to get snapped up so whilst there is still time, as time dwindles the options get less. Hoping we stumble upon a great pickup who gets cut doesn’t seem like a reliable or high percentage strategy to me. I’m in wait and see mode but I’m not feeling too great just yet!

[big_palooka]

45 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

That’s all well and good and I don’t disagree with the principal, however, FA has not filled out DT or IOL when there were cheap guys available who are undoubtedly upgrades on guys like Bars. I agree with the thoughts that great teams are built through the draft and this regime was hamstrung by the old but it doesn’t excuse signing a dozen WRs and not addressing the trenches in the manner you described above. 

Obviously, plenty of time left, however it’s not just time as the better players and better value players do tend to get snapped up so whilst there is still time, as time dwindles the options get less. Hoping we stumble upon a great pickup who gets cut doesn’t seem like a reliable or high percentage strategy to me. I’m in wait and see mode but I’m not feeling too great just yet!

Here's the thing. Just because they haven't, doesn't mean they won't address the trenches. 

Free agency has cooled until after the draft. There are still a lot of cheap available DT and IOL available. Off the top of my head:

DT - Ford, Robinson, Smoot, Ioanidis, Harris, 

Oline - Risner, Wynn, McGovern, Feilier, Turner, Saffold, Jackson

There will be plenty of cheap stop-gap options post draft if you don't get what you want in the draft.

I just don't get the "sky is falling" sentiment in March over the roster construction. If it's September and your starting OG is Alex Bars, then the discussion is warranted.  

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

This is where I hold something against the FO. I think in isolation, none of the moves are really that bad, but collectively they are, as you say, throwing a few million here and a few million there straight into backups or obvious camp fodder. When a guy like Andrew Billings signed for $3.5 million and was a starter for us and a good starter at that, at a position of dire need that seems like a bad waste. 

That is the issue I have, we’ve spent a total of around 10 to 12 million on at best, backups and at worst camp fodder and below average players who’ll have no real impact and that could have been a couple starters at OG or DT to me. They’re not make or break moves but in our position we need to make these small moves good moves.

The big question is are these moves complete ineptness by DZ/JM not being able to properly identify talent and value or have they inquired and tried to sign quality FA's but those players refuse to sign here, play for JM and get their teeth kicked in every Sunday?  Those are valid questions and I wish there was a way to find out the answer.  The answer to these questions would tell me a lot.

[ronjon1990]

JuSt BeCaUsE tHe JoB dOnE sUcKeD dOeSn'T mEaN iT sUcKeD. 

We should all be like this FO's unwavering stalwart defenders. 

Anything done objectively poorly? "No, just wait. Shouldn't criticize until I, personally, can no longer defend this drivel without looking like a complete and utter fool. Then it's ok.".

Some folks here are going to defend the absolute hell out of this staff in hopes of being able to say "See, I told you so!". That's why they'll continually kick the criticism can down the road so they don't have to feel left out when "I told you so" becomes "Well, we gave them a chance, right?" once it's clear as day they're all alone in their defense. 

[ronjon1990]

9 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

The big question is are these moves complete ineptness by DZ/JM not being able to properly identify talent and value or have they inquired and tried to sign quality FA's but those players refuse to sign here, play for JM and get their teeth kicked in every Sunday?  Those are valid questions and I wish there was a way to find out the answer.  The answer to these questions would tell me a lot.

For a couple of guys who have been in the league for well over a decade and worked at exceptionally high levels (though with poor results when in control, thus far), I feel like either answer is unacceptable. 

 

[Darbsk]

15 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Here's the thing. Just because they haven't, doesn't mean they won't address the trenches. 

Free agency has cooled until after the draft. There are still a lot of cheap available DT and IOL available. Off the top of my head:

DT - Ford, Robinson, Smoot, Ioanidis, Harris, 

Oline - Risner, Wynn, McGovern, Feilier, Turner, Saffold, Jackson

There will be plenty of cheap stop-gap options post draft if you don't get what you want in the draft.

I just don't get the "sky is falling" sentiment in March over the roster construction. If it's September and your starting OG is Alex Bars, then the discussion is warranted.  

Oh, I understand that and the hyperbole here sometimes is annoying. There are a number of guys I still like such as Ford, Ionidis and Harris so as you say, still some options there just doesn’t seem any kind of urgency or application. Maybe they are working feverishly behind the scenes and maybe it all comes together, we simply don’t know.

I just feel like we’re taking a risk relying on hoping guys will be available late and super cheap. We’ve spent some decent money on pretty superfluous players so we’ve cut down what’s in our wallet by signihh myg a dozen receivers and what if, hypothetically a nice DT becomes available then we might be limiting ourselves by filling our roster with depth guys and camp fodder that we struggle with the resources to sign him.

To me, you get your holes filled first with potential starters or solid vets, even if they are just place holders and then draft a number of high ceiling guys to fill in the odd space and look for 2 to 3 high impact rookies. The camp fodder and depth guys can come last as they’re the least important, not first before our rookies and starters. It’s not disastrous but I just feel we’re maybe not seeing the wood for the trees.

[true2form]

4 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

JuSt BeCaUsE tHe JoB dOnE sUcKeD dOeSn'T mEaN iT sUcKeD. 

We should all be like this FO's unwavering stalwart defenders. 

Anything done objectively poorly? "No, just wait. Shouldn't criticize until I, personally, can no longer defend this drivel without looking like a complete and utter fool. Then it's ok.".

Some folks here are going to defend the absolute hell out of this staff in hopes of being able to say "See, I told you so!". That's why they'll continually kick the criticism can down the road so they don't have to feel left out when "I told you so" becomes "Well, we gave them a chance, right?" once it's clear as day they're all alone in their defense. 

This.

It's ok to play wait and see.  However, you should be able to call out a crappy move, when it's a crappy move along the way.

[Frankie2Gunz]

2 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

For a couple of guys who have been in the league for well over a decade and worked at exceptionally high levels (though with poor results when in control, thus far), I feel like either answer is unacceptable. 

 

100 percent.  I don't k now which answer would be worse but both are completely unacceptable.  Those are the only two logical possibilities as far as I can tell but either way both possibilities don't bode well for our future with DZ and JM. 

[massraider]

We gotta address the line!!!!!

Raiders re-sign a backup they like

Not like that!!!!!!!!

[drfrey13]

16 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Is he trolling Mark too?

What tricks of the trade is he missing.  Not that difficult to see a lack of talent.  Why did we not retain Mayock if this was true.  Answer is Davis does not understand or value the GM position.  He only cares about having a name coach and allowing them to pick their GM.  I have never been in the Davis should sell the team but unless he wakes up this team is going to continue to struggle.  How did anyone think that this was a good quote to put out.  Just said your rookie GM does not know what he is doing and he can not fully trust the FO team he built.

[drfrey13]

13 minutes ago, massraider said:

We gotta address the line!!!!!

Raiders re-sign a backup they like

Not like that!!!!!!!!

Not bringing back Bars would have been addition by subtraction.  I do not think anyone here was satisfied with his play on the field.  Maybe they see something in him at practice or he buys into the system.  I do not know but he is a waste to me if he is on the final roster and a detriment if he is on the field.  I did not want them to spend big in FA last year or this year but at the same time I did not want them to just sign  or resign bad players because they were cheap.  Hopefully he develops but seems like he is JMD's version of Sam Young.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Oh, I understand that and the hyperbole here sometimes is annoying. There are a number of guys I still like such as Ford, Ionidis and Harris so as you say, still some options there just doesn’t seem any kind of urgency or application. Maybe they are working feverishly behind the scenes and maybe it all comes together, we simply don’t know.

I just feel like we’re taking a risk relying on hoping guys will be available late and super cheap. We’ve spent some decent money on pretty superfluous players so we’ve cut down what’s in our wallet by signihh myg a dozen receivers and what if, hypothetically a nice DT becomes available then we might be limiting ourselves by filling our roster with depth guys and camp fodder that we struggle with the resources to sign him.

To me, you get your holes filled first with potential starters or solid vets, even if they are just place holders and then draft a number of high ceiling guys to fill in the odd space and look for 2 to 3 high impact rookies. The camp fodder and depth guys can come last as they’re the least important, not first before our rookies and starters. It’s not disastrous but I just feel we’re maybe not seeing the wood for the trees.

Goes back to mark talking about competitive edge that dz has to learn. We’re basically in the back seat while mark is teaching dz how to drive

[Humble_Beast]

7 hours ago, Rolni said:

Solid move if he is back as interior OL depth.

I will be mad if he starts tho...

Why would you want a backup who sucks.